BCR problems?Revert back to batteries?

James: Sounds like you are probably using DCS, right?  Use the "BAT TEST" - it is a test of the charging system, not the battery.

- walt

DCS with a PS-(conventional) engine has no feedback.

Also all three engines having the same problems at same time is unlikely.

What I expect is the the voltage is TOO high when trying to come out of "original" reset mode to go into forward mode.  You must keep voltage below 10v and some say 8v.  But 10v so far has worked for me.

Ron

DCS has No effect on PS-1, as it is mainly a sound system, plus remote control uncoupling.

My handheld remote for DCS will not operate the horn on PS-1 engines, unless I am under variable track voltage.

PS-2 will respond to the DCS handheld, and PS-3 should work with the older TIU's, not 100% sure on PS-3, as I don't have anything that new.

Lee F.

James,

The voltage has to be over 10 volts for 1 minute to charge the BCR. I charge at 12 volts for one minute or so and then lower the voltage to get out of neutral.

Check to see if the BCR is charged up by cutting off track power and the sounds should continue for at least 10 seconds on PS1.

I have some PS 2 engines with BCR's. I have a Z1000 power brick going straight into my TIU(no controller, 18volts going to the track).

Frequently, some of my BCR equipped locomotives instantly die, when they reach certain areas on my layout(everything just quits).

I usually wait at least 3 or 4 minutes, after plugging in my power brick. Then turn on the BCR equipped unit. The unit starts up fine, runs well, everything works..., but, as soon as it reach certain areas... it dies?

I was under the impression that 18 volts and DCS, were suitable for BCR's. I see that some of you control your voltage, at least, for the first minute of charging.

Is 18 volts too much(for the initial one minute charge period) and if so, why?

BTW, one of my BCR equipped locomotives always work fine with my current operational setup.

Rick

Thanks guys for your input.

I charge the locos all proto 1 with 10volts on my MTH Z-4000,then I try to move out of neutral either nothing or it will move all be it with a little jerkness no sound then the sound comes in but dies once again on stopping/neutral.

Since you say they all (did you try all of them?) work with batteries installed, it sounds like either three bad BCR's or three bad charging circuits. Interesting coincidence.

Do you have any other PS-1 locomotives with BCR's that work properly and do not exhibit the problems these three have?

If so, then swap one of the suspect BCR's into a good working loco and see if it acts up. If the trouble follows the BCR, the trouble is in the BCR. If the trouble stays with the loco, even though you installed a KNOWN GOOD BCR, then the trouble is in the charging circuit of that loco. Be sure to label the BCR's so you know which one is which after doing all that swapping.

Or are these three your entire roster of PS-1 locos with BCR's?

If the latter, then something else could be wrong and that's where I would look.

The other thing you could try is to use the MTH reset chip and see if something is acting up in the PS-1 system.

I would charge the BCR at more than 10 V - more like 16 V works best for me. Mine won't charge reliably 10 V either. Never a problem with one so far when charged at the higher voltage.

Jim

I have about a dozen PS1 boards  with BCR's installed in varios engines.

The oldest BCR is from 2005.

I charge them up at 13 to 14 volts and it takes about 30 seconds before the sound comes on. Usual charge time required 40 to 60  seconds.

Have not had a charging circuit or a BCR go bad on me yet.

If you ordered the 3 BCR's the same time it could have been a defective batch. If so contact J&W and see if he will make good on them. I have them in all my Proto 1 & 2 without a problem.

Sorry, didn't realize that they are PS1.

Plus, I really must start reading more carefully!!!  PLUS, I didn't even notice that he mentioned THREE engines.  Had I paid attention I wouldn't have offered my useless comment!

OOPS.

- walt

Hey Walt, we ALL do that in haste to try and help.

The problem here is that PS-1 engines power up in "initial reset" mode and if powered up above 10v they will NOT shift into forward mode but go into programing mode!  Or all three BCRs where hit with same failure at the same time. And/or BCRs caused the same type of failure.

Thanks again guys,it is going from bad to worse.

Went out & bought a normal 9v battery & that works fine,then I tried all my other PS1 locos with a BCR and have found 8 in all with this problem all run fine with the normal battery but no run on their BCR`s.

Tried a good or shall I say working PS1 locos BCR and that worked but is that because it was charged by a good locos board?

Going out this evening to see if that BCR will charge up in one of the duff locos.

Looking like a grave yard out there locos & tenders without their shells!

James 

Just been out to try again using 1 of the 2 known to work BCR`s and that works great,so will wait untill the morning to try once more to see if it was a fluke or still had a charge left in after 3 hours.

You need to check your track voltage to make sure there getting enough voltage to charge them.

Have you tried another transformer?

James,  Did these work with BCRs before now with your setup?  I find it hard to believe all the BCR or all the charging circuits are bad.

If they worked before, then something strange is going on.  If this is the first time, then it may be your transformer set up, maybe the 50hz issue.

I think you need to follow the advice of raising voltage to 14-16 volts and letting the BCR charge for 45-60secs.  After that, lower voltage to 9volts and try to come out of reset and into fwd.

There is a test procedure for the battery charging circuit, if the above doesn't work.   G

Hi G Have been out today and yes the 1 BCR works fine it is just the other 8.

Have been using them for a while now & no problem untill now.

They all work OK with the transformer when a regular battery is in and the 1 BCR.

I don`t have the 50hz problem as that was sorted by Nick with inverters etc.

Yesterday did try all the options given here with the 16V etc & nothing.

Could it be the heat as summer has arrived at last!

Should I revert back to batteries? as I have found on line Rechargeable plastic coated NiCd 8.4v 120mAh in HongKong for £2.12/$3.28 ea post paid! 

James

James, I've hesitated to jump in here but it seems like matters are getting desperate and maybe its worth a try.  Perhaps you have an electrical ground problem.

I have a 16' by 14' loop that has an electrical feed every few feet and the ground connections were all made to the inner rail.  I had a similar problem to you (I run numerous PS1 locos with BCR's) and began debugging my wiring.  I found that I had inadvertently made 1 ground connection to the outer rail.  When I changed it the problem was solved.  I hope this is helpful.

Phil

I didn't read every post, so maybe this was mentioned.  I'd try standard MTH approved rechargeable batteries in a couple of them and see if that fixes it.  Hard to believe all those BCR's went bad...

Thanks guys I think I`ll go back to the batteries as 8 BCR work and the other 8 are duff.

It seems strange the 1/2 work & the other 1/2 don`t so it can`t be the track or transformer just the BCR.

I`ll order a dozen of the NiCd 8.4v 120mAh from HK and see how I go from there.

Cheers James

You might want to contact J&W and maybe they'll work it out. It is strange that there all bad but it can be possible. Did you purchase them all at the same time? If so he might have received defective parts from his vendors. I would contact him it wont hurt.

Thanks Gene I`ll talk to them but in the mean time have ordered the batteries from HK to tide me over.

James

Is it possible that the engines in question have bad order charging circuits, or the boards were not designed with a battery charging unit to begin with. Guess you will find out if the three new batteries go dead - but that might take a long time.

Thanks Charlie but it can`t be the bad charging circuits as the locos work fine with the good BCR`s .

James

If they work with some BCR units and not others, it seems to strongly suggest that those are indeed bad.  If you've tried the "good" BCR units in a number of locomotives and they've worked, then tried the "bad" BCR units and they've always failed, I think you have your answer.

Have you taken the BRC out of the loco and checked it on a voltmeter?

If you have three defective BCR"s. it would be informative to learn what the defect is.