Command upgrade cost comparison/advice wanted

I am very interested in this topic too.So far what I have seen is that there are so many "gotcha"s in these upgrades that a mistake could be costly--and likely. AC motors, DC motors, pullmor motors, one motor or two, and that's before we even start talking about sound. Then you price out these upgrades and the cost of your engine plus the upgrade is almost exactly the same as the cost of a new TMCC or DCS engine. The game is clearly rigged--like driving up to a major intersection with "competing" gas stations on each corner all displaying the same per-gallon price down to the exact 1/10th of a cent!! And yet I have engines that I like enough that I do want to pay the price. Just like I still have to buy gas! But anyway, I wish the experts on this forum would summarize what they know here or point us to previous discussions so that we can see the whole picture.

Don

For steamers, you'll do better price-wise for a full featured upgrade with the PS/3 kit.  Diesels are usually a wash in price for TMCC or PS/3.

As far as offering a detailed breakdown of pricing for all the different permutations of possible upgrades, that would be a rather large and time consuming task.

Many times it is most cost effective to simply buy a newer model with the features already included than to buy a conventional model and upgrade it.

Thanks for the answer. I usually don't buy conventional engines anymore but I really like the looks of the 4-6-0. It is something different from the usual MTH offerings. Found it on sale last year at Mario's for $189 shipped and jumped on it. Since I run DCS it hasn't even seen the track yet. I have no experience with TMCC, just thought it might be a cheaper way to go. If the prices are close I definitely would like PS3. 

Have you done an upgrade on one of these yet? I don't know what type of motor it has or if it is compatible with PS3. The tender is huge so no space problems there but the boiler looks like it might be a pretty tight space. This is definitely a job I would farm out as this type of electronics is well above my abilities. 

Your better off just buying a PS3 engine rather upgrading a williams locomotive.

I keep upgrades to larger steam locomotives like some of the earlier engines from MTH, Weaver and some others if I can get them cheap enough. 

Dave

I have upgraded several of the Williams die cast.  Some to TMCC with ERR and others with PS-2.

First, as done.  List what you want in terms of importance.  Full integrated smoke, Speed Control/Cruise, Sound, Couplers being the top on the list.

Second and most important is size of unit and tether set up.  MTH needs to fit 10  pin for steam.  ERR also needs about 6-8 depending on features wanted to be controlled in the engine.

Many of these engine do not have fan driven smoke units, or they are unique in size.  Adding Smoke is another high cost item for the smoke unit, and the labor.  Custom fabrication to get it to fit right and be serviceable.

 Also many have unique couplers that may or may not be able to be replaced.  MTH couplers are standard, with 2 basic sizes.  Atlas, 3rd Rail, WBB some times use odd ball couplers that only fit that model.

For a fully integrated engine set, DCS is far cheaper and fully integrated.  Johns supplemental items get you the features but raise the cost and labor.

Diesels are closer to a wash assuming none of Johns items.  Though fancy diesels with lots of lights are again better suited to MTH which can run them all, ditch, LNB, Mars etc...  While TMCC ERR limits to 3 light functions, or 2 with smoke.

Lastly with sounds.. far more choices and changes available with MTH.  ERR you purchase from a limited sound set and that is what you live with.  G

Can the latest version of the MTH wifi App access ERR TMCC features since it is supposed to be TMCC/Legacy features?

While not cost effective,  I had all my Kline engines converted to Proto2.   The one issue I have with any of the conversions, whether Proto1 or TMCC, to Proto2/3 are the scale mphs are off.  Some times the numbers are significant such as my Kline Reading F3 runs at 8 smp while my MTH NH F7 runs at 25 smph to keep in sync.  Other examples are my WVPP 4 truck converted Proto 1 Shay runs at 18 smph while my MTH engines run at 15 smph.  My Kline B&O Light Pacific runs at 23 smph while other MTH engines run at 15 smph.  My Kline Reading Tank runs at 8 smph while the other MTH engines run at 10 smph.  Also some run as expected with the Proto1 SF 2900 class run within 1 smph of my MTH SP Daylight GS4 and Alco PAs. With having converted more than 8 engines it is not cost effective and more related to if the engine is one that has been made recently it would be less expensive to purchase one already converted.  In my case my SMR engines will not be made by MTH or Lionel so if I wanted them I needed to convert (one to Proto 2 & one to ERR).  The Kline Reading Tank will not be made by MTH or Lionel.  The other reason would be the reason I kept my Kline Hudson.  It is a very nice model and was the first command engine I purchased (got up to 80 - now down to 50).  I also converted a Kline F3 AA which was my first covered wagon diesel and it was at Kline for repair (trailing A failed) when they closed.  It was mailed back to me a year later with the trailing A still inop.  To keep all 4 motors for the conversion, it ended up costing more than $500 which was more than a new one.  Sometimes the cost is not the determining factor.  Enjoy your engine and either choice will be ok.  Just decide which features you desire to assist you in making your decision.

I had a Favorite MPC engine that I really wanted command control with nice sound and elected to go with a PS3 kit. The first task was to buy a Williams GP9 so that I could put the MPC shell on it. Next was upgrading the Williams running gear with PS3. In the end it was worth it to me because of the sentimental value that original MPC GP9 had to me.

The total cost was just under $290 - a wash compared to a new GP9.

The speed is off slightly compared to other PS3 engines, and I am sure that is due to the odd sized Flywheel on the Williams motor. The 30mm tape was too big and the 27.7mm tape was too small (Flywheel measured 29mm).

The scale speed issues of non-MTH stuff can be fixed by using a custom tach tape.  By adjusting the number of stripes, you can fix the scale speed.