Confused by phrase "Prime Mover Sounds"

The diesel engine is known as a prime mover. The engine turns a generator to power electric motors in 1:1 locos.

@Mannyrock posted:

So why don't they say "diesel engine" sounds instead of "prime mover" sounds?   

Mannyrock

One reason for this may be our - people in general - custom, at least in English, of calling a locomotive an "engine". It is not. It is a locomotive. A locomotive is just that, but locomotives must have an "engine" to move (straight electrics do not; they just have motors, a whole 'nuther conversation). Calling the diesel engine inside a "diesel engine", uh, a diesel engine gets pretty silly real quickly.

Steam locomotives (not "engines") have, typically a single  two-cylinder "engine" (the cylinders, pistons, valves, rods, valve gear). Some have two (articulateds; duplexes) or even three (Triplex).

But, we all call them steam engines, diesel engines, electric engines, and will continue to, of course. They are actually locomotives.

Think automobile. You get in your car (with an engine) and drive off. You don't get in your engine.

Yeh Mannyrock, here in Australia we call a "prime mover" the truck or cab that pulls an articulated trailer along our long and vast highways....you guys across the pond call them "tractor trailers". A tractor to us is the machine that plows the fields and pulls you out of the mud when you get bogged.

"It's a strange, strange world we live in Master Jack" to quote a line from a popular song many years ago here in Australia.

Peter.....Buco Australia

I have never been much of a diesel fan until I acquired my LGB Baltimore and Ohio digital sound equipped A-B-A F-7 locomotive set. The digital recordings of an actual prime mover starting up to a steady idle, and then revving up to notch one, with two forward starting horn blasts is something to behold! On the prototype, the diesel powered generator set provides the electrical power to the multiple axle mounted traction motors to move the locomotive. My LGB A units each have two powerful seven pole Buehler motors and one speaker each. The B unit has twin amplifiers for each A unit speaker via cabling, thus providing a kind of surround sound! In addition, a track mounted magnet activates a reed switch in the B unit to produce either a grade crossing horn signal or a bell signal depending on its position in the track. Awesome!

Thanks for all of these excellent replies.

Still waiting for some energetic O gauge fan to build a dictionary list of all of the specialized O Gauge lingo terms.  This could be put in the permanent info section.  :-)

Perhaps a fun project would be for someone to create a post, asking for members to reply with a technical lingo word, and a definition for it.   A list of 100 terms or so would probably be built in short order.

People new to this hobby need this type of info, and it may cut down on a lot of newbie questions that apparently annoy certain people.

Mannyrock

@Mannyrock  The list you are wishing for already exists, courtesy of @rtr12.

Here's a link to it: Acronyms, Abbreviations & Terms Used in OGR Forums

@D500 posted:

One reason for this may be our - people in general - custom, at least in English, of calling a locomotive an "engine". It is not. It is a locomotive. A locomotive is just that, but locomotives must have an "engine" to move (straight electrics do not; they just have motors, a whole 'nuther conversation). Calling the diesel engine inside a "diesel engine", uh, a diesel engine gets pretty silly real quickly.

Steam locomotives (not "engines") have, typically a single  two-cylinder "engine" (the cylinders, pistons, valves, rods, valve gear). Some have two (articulateds; duplexes) or even three (Triplex).

But, we all call them steam engines, diesel engines, electric engines, and will continue to, of course. They are actually locomotives.

Think automobile. You get in your car (with an engine) and drive off. You don't get in your engine.

So... how do you explain the term "Engineer" for the person that operates it? (ALL the cards I held for that job title had the word "Engineer" in conjunction with certification, etc.) The term has been around since, what, the mid-1800s?

Also, within the Transportation Dept's that I've worked, those noisy loud things that we all know and love were often referred to as an "engine" or "motor"... but seldom did I hear "locomotive".

But what did we know? All we did was railroad for a living. Silly us.

Me thinks it's too easy to split hairs in this hobby and orate concerning.

Andre

@Buco posted:

"It's a strange, strange world we live in Master Jack" to quote a line from a popular song many years ago here in Australia.

Peter.....Buco Australia

"Master Jack," by Four Jacks & a Jill was a big hit here in the USA, too.   I was just a kid, but remember loving it...  1966/'67 perhaps?

When I was a kid the big Australian band was Men at Work and of us Yanks were learning what Kombies and Vegemite Sandwiches were!

Agreed that we get caught up in inside language.  An example from my profession as an architect:

• The architect may look at the general layout of a building as a parti.
• The consulting engineers call it a floor plan.
• The client will call it their building.
• The general contractor will call it a change order.

I write the last line entirely with tongue firmly planted in cheek.  I have worked with wonderful design and construction professionals throughout my now 30 year career so no disrespect meant or given. 

However, in the spirit of the thread the analogy applies.  There is insider language everywhere which is why Andre makes such a good point regarding the use of Prime Mover.  To a locomotive engineer (i.e. - the engineer that designs the locomotive) the correct term would be prime mover.  However to a locomotive engineer (i.e. the engineer that operates the machine) the correct term may be any number of words.

Are we thoroughly confused yet?

No?  Pennsy referred to all their electric locomotives as "motors".

Transit agencies often refer to LRV or Subway operators as either "operators" or an older term "motor men". 

Now we are thoroughly confused.

It's like parking in a driveway and driving on a parkway.

GG1 4877 you are revealing your age now. Tomato Tomoto who care s lets just all go run our trains and put engines in front of cars and watch them go round and round and round and enjoy this great Addicting hobby we are in!!!!

Cars have engines (the ones with Diesel or Otto engines, that is)  Only the electric ones have MOTORS...yet...

You register your car at the Dept of MOTOR Vehicles.  You MOTOR about in your car, on MOTORways. It might have been made by Ford MOTOR Company or General MOTORS.  You are called a MOTORist.  Mr. Toad had a MOTORcar.

I drive a 1978 Honda CB750K MOTORcycle, that has, the last time I checked, an engine.

The person in charge of a fire department, that has ENGINES and TRUCKS (not the same thing, at all) are called, officially, Chief ENGINeers, or "Chief" for short.

The person who controls the subway train is a MOTORman, unless you read the newspapers, and then (s)he is a "Conductor."

Truck (US) = lorry (UK)  Semi (US) = artic (UK).   Sem'-EYE (US) = Sem'-EEE (Canada)

Trains are made up of cars, which ride on trucks.  Sometimes trucks and cars ride on rail cars.  WHISTLE posts (with the big "W" painted on them) tell the engineer when to blow the HORN.

A coach became known as a "bus" which is short for "omnibus" which means "everybody" which meant that any person could board and get a cheap ride, even the ones who couldn't afford to ride in a coach.

A taxicab is short for "taximeter cabriolet" which has a (meter) inside a hired (cabriolet) that adds up the fare (tax) to be paid by the passenger.

There's a couple of passenger cars in my driveway, and quite a few passenger cars in my train room.

(With a nod to George Carlin)

Mr. Bloom: ALL "good ones"!  :-) :-) :-)

I hope the above, answers your question, I have only one more to add to confuse you.  Look up or goggle  the story of the grade crossing horn signal came about.  two long, one short, followed by, one long.  In Morse code it's the letter Q    Now if that does not have you scratching your head ..... I don't know what will    

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Isn't the chap handling the throttle of a U.K. locomotive called the driver?

Fun!  This all reminds me of a riddle that I once read in the joke section in the back of Boy's Life when I was a kid, " When is a car not a car?"....... " When it turns into a driveway!"   (much like, when is a door not a door, when it is ajar). 

I can't remember where I laid down my cell phone last night, but this little ditty from 1965 is stuck in my head.

Earl     

@Mannyrock posted:

...Still waiting for some energetic O gauge fan to build a dictionary list of all of the specialized O Gauge lingo terms...

“Prime mover” is not an O gauge term. It is a real railroad term, typically seen only in the press. Real railroaders out in the field never used the term “prime mover” to describe the diesel engine inside a locomotive.

We called it the engine.

@GG1 4877 posted:

When I was a kid the big Australian band was Men at Work and of us Yanks were learning what Kombies and Vegemite Sandwiches were!

Agreed that we get caught up in inside language.  An example from my profession as an architect:

• The architect may look at the general layout of a building as a parti.
• The consulting engineers call it a floor plan.
• The client will call it their building.
• The general contractor will call it a change order.

I write the last line entirely with tongue firmly planted in cheek.  I have worked with wonderful design and construction professionals throughout my now 30 year career so no disrespect meant or given.

However, in the spirit of the thread the analogy applies.  There is insider language everywhere which is why Andre makes such a good point regarding the use of Prime Mover.  To a locomotive engineer (i.e. - the engineer that designs the locomotive) the correct term would be prime mover.  However to a locomotive engineer (i.e. the engineer that operates the machine) the correct term may be any number of words.

Are we thoroughly confused yet?

No?  Pennsy referred to all their electric locomotives as "motors".

Transit agencies often refer to LRV or Subway operators as either "operators" or an older term "motor men".

Now we are thoroughly confused.

Being the "client" , managing capital construction and facilities at a local college, the last line made my morning. Very good!

Bob

Oh well.  At least the term Motorman to describe the guy who runs the electric subway trains makes sense.

Boy....I didn't have a headache before I read this thread...but... now I do......

To quote the caterpillar in Alice "when I use a word it means exactly what I want it to mean, nothing more and nothing less".

Added information, i.e. High School Science:

1) A "Motor" transfers energy, in that it transfers electrical energy into rotating mechanical force.

2) An "Engine" converts energy, in that it converts chemical energy (the explosion of flammable fuel in the cylinder or the expansion of heat energy from the steam) into rotating mechanical force.

Yes, the automotive industry has long used the term "Motor" to incorrectly describe the internal combustion device that powers the vehicle or race car. All started by Henry Ford, apparently.

Well, got several alerts to this topic as it has wandered far off into who knows where....the OP got his answers.