Continuing Saga of Lionel's poor new truck design

@Professor Chaos posted:

I just received some of the 50' flatcars with 20' trailers from the 2020 catalog. Happy to report that they have the 'old' style trucks, with both hidden tabs and articulating couplers.

Yes indeed. I had previously posted a similar report. As my Dad used to say, "It's better to be lucky than good.

Pat

Has there been any chatter from Lionel about these issues and any possible fixes from them yet?

Dave,

I have yet to see or hear of any comments from Lionel - very disappointing to say the least!  As for fixes:

1: Return the cars to Lionel

2: Purchase new trucks at a cost of upwards of $30!

3. Take a file or Dremel tool and modify the coupler so that it works with existing Lionel cars, however that does not fix the truck issue.

Good Luck

@Ray of sunshine posted:

Dave,

I have yet to see or hear of any comments from Lionel - very disappointing to say the least!  As for fixes:

1: Return the cars to Lionel

2: Purchase new trucks at a cost of upwards of $30!

3. Take a file or Dremel tool and modify the coupler so that it works with existing Lionel cars, however that does not fix the truck issue.

Good Luck

You can install Kadee which I did but doesn't address the trucks which I'll leave as is.  No more cars until this is addressed.

This morning, on another forum, someone reported receiving an email from METCA in which, besides dealing mainly with deco errors on the METCA custom milk cars that necessitates them being re-run (the factory failed to incorporate corrections made to samples), it was stated that Lionel will be offering an improved coupler to purchasers of Lionel’s new milk cars. No details provided.

I saw a youtube video were the poster said harry henning had talked to ryan and dave about the mike car coupler issue. dave was looking into this and going to find a fix. so was harry when he got his new milk cars. maybe they are working on a fix.

I happen to like the new trucks with the thumtack coupler as stated befor. I have some on my new ps1 sounds cars. I ordered some of the new trucks minus the center roller to put on some of my older ps1 cars witch have truck issues.

I figured if the new ps1 cars have these new trucks they should fit and work on my old ps1 cars. I found some on the parts websight that I thought were a match with no center rollers as stated above.

when I recived them they are a different model. they have a different bolster in the middle of the truck and these appear to be for the weaver/ lionscale car bodies. so I am now not sure what trucks to buy. I do not mind the old style with swiveling knuckles, but on lionels website it says they are out of stock and discontinued.

now I am puzzled as to what to do. why does lionel seems to make this so hard to find replacement trucks for these cars.

@Keith L posted:

This morning, on another forum, someone reported receiving an email from METCA in which, besides dealing mainly with deco errors on the METCA custom milk cars that necessitates them being re-run (the factory failed to incorporate corrections made to samples), it was stated that Lionel will be offering an improved coupler to purchasers of Lionel’s new milk cars. No details provided.

I would be interested in more information about this. I received my PRR milk car from them yesterday and was curious about some of the details not matching the artwork or samples. I knew from seeing images of the cars that the frame was not painted black and just thought it was changed before production but the sample shows it black as well. I guess that is what the message above is referring to but I would also be interested in the improved coupler although I will likely swap on the previous trucks.

@Keith L posted:

This morning, on another forum, someone reported receiving an email from METCA in which, besides dealing mainly with deco errors on the METCA custom milk cars that necessitates them being re-run (the factory failed to incorporate corrections made to samples), it was stated that Lionel will be offering an improved coupler to purchasers of Lionel’s new milk cars. No details provided.

Good news if it comes to be. I hope it isn’t limited to the milk cars.

Keith, so do you think that after forking out $74.99 for these cars, Lionel will make us buy new trucks/couplers to fix this mistake? Or do you think they will do the right thing by sending the corrected trucks/couplers to those of us that bought these but rather than return them to our deal, modified them to work as they should have?

RAY

The couplers are easy to remove from the trucks.  I can see Lionel sending out new couplers but don't bet on new trucks.

@Keith L posted:

...it was stated that Lionel will be offering an improved coupler to purchasers of Lionel’s new milk cars...

These couplers are on cars other than just the milk cars.  I would hope Lionel replaces these trucks on all the cars that have them.

@superwarp1 posted:

The couplers are easy to remove from the trucks.  I can see Lionel sending out new couplers but don't bet on new trucks.

I figure that is the way they will go. They still won't be articulated though.

@rattler21 posted:

For whatever reason, children receiving  Lionel sets and individual cars may be discouraged and dissatisfied with their toy trains.  That certainly doesn't help the hobby.  Members of this Forum are a small percentage of Lionel's sales.  John

True. They could still offer us a better quality item.

Guys,

Being new to this O gauge world, I am very very surprised at the apparent reluctance of folks to send cars with defective couplers directly back to Lionel, demanding repair, replacement or refund.  You paid alot of money for these cars and they should work right out of the box.

In my prior hobby of 50 years (firearms), if anybody buys any type of new firearm that does not work due to a manufacturing or design defect, they have no hesitation in boxing it up and sending it straight back to the manufacturer for repair, replacement or refund.  They don't stand around discussing it.  In most of the cases, the manufacturer promptly takes care of the problem and sends it back.

Why the reluctance to send these back?  If Lionel comes up with replacement trucks or couplers, why should YOU have to replace and install them.  Make Lionel do it.

Mannyrock

You have arrived just in time to participate in a great test. How much will a group of loyal people take before they stop purchasing. If you have ever cooked crabs and slowly boiled the water, you found that they took a great deal before they tried to abandon ship.

When they finally did, they were so far underwater that they couldn’t get out.

Same thing here. People, me included,  have slowly been subjected to an experiment that appears to be studying actions based on a gradual loss of competence... like milk cars that took four years to get made and, wonder of wonders, when they finally came in looking great, the couplers had been redesigned after years of perfection into something that is an absolute joke.

Now the test appears to be measuring how far those same purchasers, loyal customers, etc, are willing to go in accepting an obviously failed product. Some university must be monitoring this and maybe it will result in a Nobel prize.

Note how the manufacturer remains silent, usually for a long time. It is a really remarkable marketing strategy that is being tested here. These items cost about $100 each. Sometimes they cost $1,500 or more. I wonder how the cost affects behavior.

Other similar tests are ongoing or have been concluded. This has been an amazing process to watch. I have friends who are participating, some of whom are on their third or fourth course. Imagine how they are being studied. There are basically similar choices as you follow the process. One thing stands out, seldom do we  stop buying.

Sometimes things are finally repaired or replaced but that can take years.

Not sure how many, but a significant number of Lionel items are never removed from the package, and kept as "collectibles", and those buyers will never care if they couple or not.  If I was the big L- I might just react to people's complaints rather than having to fix 100% of the cars.  I am guessing that (unlike in the case of an engine) the cost of a return and retrofit exceeds to new cost of the car.

I feel like the guy who realized at the end that he was the last person to buy a ticket on the Titanic.  :-)

Mike Wyatt:

    Good point. But how many people will want buy ANY Lionel freight cars in the future for fear that they may have these faulty trucks and couplers?

    It remains to be seen exactly how much that fear will affect this recently released catalog. Who would want take a chance paying $75- $80 on a freight car only to find that in order to include it on a train, the buyer must spend another $30- $35 for a decent pair of trucks/couplers?

    The ball is now in Lionel's court as to how to rectify this situation.

   1) What will Lionel do for people who bought the milk cars and who are stuck with a lemon.

   2) Lionel must remove the reluctance any potential buyer may have by explaining that the faulty coupler was used on only the milk car series and not any other Lionel freight cars (if that is true). Otherwise I can see people avoiding any and all recently made Lionel freight cars.

      John

We basically need to go back to 2016 and stop this from happening. The departure from that truck and coupler design is where they went wrong. At least the early stuff AD 'after departure' (2017-2018) worked.

@Randy_B posted:

We basically need to go back to 2016 and stop this from happening. The departure from that truck and coupler design is where they went wrong. At least the early stuff AD 'after departure' (2017-2018) worked.

Bingo. Lionel should never have changed the design of the trucks and couplers that they had used for many, many years for their scale line. Lionel unilaterally made the change without conducting any market research with its dealers or customers. I know that as a fact. Marketing lesson 101. The reasons provided at the time for the change, while well intended, were nonetheless very weak. Things have never been the same thereafter. That's when I stopped buying Lionel's scale freight cars and instead commenced to load up on old new stock. Hopefully, Lionel will figure this out and finally get it right.

Pat