DCS Explorer

RJR posted:

MTHRD.  I have the most recent versions of the android premium app, 2 WIUs, and the DCS software installed and running fine.  It appears that if I do the forthcoming app update, every time I fire up I have to select the WIU, even though I have no Explorer.  SO is there any benefit to doing the update?  (I'm sure that the next following update will be needed and will present this choice.

Hi RJR,  Once you make the setting in your app it remains until you change it in the app settings area.  So, stated differently, it's like Ron Popeil's Rotisserie, just set it and forget it!!

I always, always, encourage DCS users to keep all of their gear updated.  Even if the stated update is of no interest to you, there are always enhancements, bug fixes, etc., included with every release.  

Landsteiner posted:

"ARRRGGHHH! What a mess!"

Actually, it works quite well.  Those of us with TMCC, Legacy, LC and LC+ locos have no problems to speak of.  And these days, every LC and LC+ loco comes with everything needed to operate it.  You can always use your smart device, but you don't have to .  And new locos will work with that smart device without investing a hundred dollars in a wi-fi device.  Bluetooth is simple that way, and from now on, all Lionel locos will have Bluetooth.  Simple, reliable and inexpensive.

Hope you enjoy your Explorer.  No need to bad mouth other people's products, particularly if you have no experience with them.

Sorry if you took my statement as "badmouthing".  My intention was to highlight a major difference between Lionel's "multi-pronged (shall we say)" approach, and MTH's "it all works the same" approach.

I currently own and run Lionel Legacy, TMCC, and Lionchief locos (no LC+)

MTH has one system.  DCS.  Doesn't matter if you buy a starter engine for home use, and use it at you club's layout.  Doesn't matter when you bought it.  If it's DCS, you're good to go!

Lionel's systems are varied and incompatible.  Buy a starter set Lionchief or LC+ and bring it to your club's TMCC or Legacy setup...OOPS! The TMCC/Legacy command system won't talk to a LC loco. 

"And new locos will work with that smart device without investing a hundred dollars in a wi-fi device."

Versus MTH DCS: One wifi device will run ALL your DCS locos, not just the newest ones!

No badmouthing intended.. just stating my preference for a more consistent "across the line" approach that MTH has!

"Lionel's systems are varied and incompatible."

I disagree. Compatibility means the ability to work together seamlessly and without unnecessary complexity.  The Lionel control methods do so brilliantly, in my view. New Lionel locos all will have Bluetooth across the line, just like MTH has PS3 across the line, if that is your priority.  The only thing lacking is a retrofit of Bluetooth for older locos. 

That said.....if you buy a LC or LC+ loco, it will work with the included remote, the universal remote, and now, also with Bluetooth.  An extra remote at no additional cost for your family or friends or your other hand.  You buy an old TMCC loco or a new Legacy loco and they will also work with TMCC or Legacy (and now with Bluetooth) or in conventional mode.  All work together with their respective remotes or a smart device. Many more choices.  What you may consider incompatibility I see cost efficiency and choices.  No need for an expensive TIU/WIU, less expensive but limited Explorer,  or even a smart device to have full command control with digital sound.  No limitations on the use of a smart device period, and the app is free.  Seems like an integrated and compatible set of systems, at lower cost at the entry level in particular. The barrier to entering the hobby is lower because of this variety of approaches, all of which work well together  Nothing needed except what comes in the box, and, if you like,  a free app download from the Apple (and in the future, Google) store.  

In defense of EDIEM, Lionel's approach toward control has lurched all over the place. Look at all the confusion:

1.Conventional locos that fly away on fixed voltage TMCC / Legacy Tracks

2.Legacy  features can't be controlled by a TMCC remote

3. Lionchief locos that mostly can't be controlled by the Bluetooth app, but sometimes can

4. Only new Legacy locos can be controlled by Bluetooth, but otherwise not

5. Lionchief locos sit dead without their special controller

6. Some Lionchief engines work with the universal remote, others not (without firmware upgrade)

7. The iCab app can't control Lionchief or conventional, but can control Legacy / TMCC

I don't particularly care for MTH frankly, but their approach has been consistent with maintaining DCS across their product lines.

Lionel should have never introduced the Lionchief system. It did nothing but confuse and bifurcate the market. People starting out with Lionchief sets have an immediate cost entry barrier to upgrade to Legacy. They should have adopted Legacy as their basic control system, and varied the features depending on the price range of the locomotive.

Worsening matters are those undersized wall-warts that preclude expansion and purchase of accessories. (MTH-you are guilty of this too) In our local train store, people buying Lionchief sets are scared off from buying accessories when they realize they'll need a $150 transformer, or a bunch of those silly and costly plug-n-play cables (which are apparently necessary as we are all idiots who can't strip a wire). Lionel was so blindly cost-driven and desperate to rid themselves of the copper and weight of the CW-80, that they shot themselves in the foot. After all, how do you sell accessories to people while lacking the capacity and convenience of accessory binding posts that are ready to go! 

I think the DCS Explorer is an excellent concept which enables the entry level hobbyist to enjoy some continuity while upgrading within the same control system.

"people buying Lionchief sets are scared off from buying accessories when they realize they'll need a $150 transformer"

At least that transformer will perform a service.  With the MTH strategy, you've already spent that $150 on the extra cost of the set because it has PS3, no controller included and the very limited Explorer.  That extra money can be spent on rolling stock, track and/or buildings, and you don't need to buy Legacy ever unless you want to. With the Explorer, you pretty much have to invest another $450 in DCS ± WIU to get the equivalent functionality of Bluetooth, which is in every Lionel set and locomotive.  I think the new customer is much better off with the Lionel set from a cost efficiency standpoint.  Most beginners are only going to have the set, some extra track, some buildings, some rolling stock and perhaps another loco.  They don't need Legacy, they certainly don't need DCS and they have some nice equipment for hundreds of dollars less than the MTH "solution."

Landsteiner posted:

"people buying Lionchief sets are scared off from buying accessories when they realize they'll need a $150 transformer"

At least that transformer will perform a service.  With the MTH strategy, you've already spent that $150 on the extra cost of the set because it has PS3, no controller included and the very limited Explorer.  That extra money can be spent on rolling stock, track and/or buildings, and you don't need to buy Legacy ever unless you want to. With the Explorer, you pretty much have to invest another $450 in DCS ± WIU to get the equivalent functionality of Bluetooth, which is in every Lionel set and locomotive.  I think the new customer is much better off with the Lionel set from a cost efficiency standpoint.  Most beginners are only going to have the set, some extra track, some buildings, some rolling stock and perhaps another loco.  They don't need Legacy, they certainly don't need DCS and they have some nice equipment for hundreds of dollars less than the MTH "solution."

Now who is bashing a manufacture?  You can't stand to let someone vent about LC/Lionel, but have no issues telling others how complicated DCS is even though it really isn't.  You always bring cost in also.  Street price of Lio versus MSRP of MTH.  OK.

You can't really argue with strategy though.  You may disagree about it, but MTH has one.  Give you a DCS engine let all future engines work with DCS.  Give you a taste of it whether that was the Remote CDR or now explore.  In the end if this is a hobby you want to get fully into you get an appropriately sized transformer and DCS.  Period.  AND ALL those engine you bought at the start and may have sentimental value can now run on your expanded empire with DCS.  Oh and by the way they all run pure conventional if that is what you want and can even have operating features activated via conventional bell and whistle.  So even a Conventional only PW guy can integrate MTH Engines on the layout.  Lionel Strategy is different and I am not going to debate which is better, which is what you always try to do.  G

GGG has a point.  I bought my grandson a RTR MTH.  It has PS3 with all the features.  Of course, it didn't come with Explorer, but I dug into my stock and pulled out an original issue (2001) Rev G TIU and original issue remote (no obsolescence with DCS), used the brick that came with the set, and he's off and running with all the DCS bells and whistles and other goodies. 

There is a reason why Lionel is favoring Bluetooth and moving away from Legacy/ TMCC where you wave your magic hand over the offending loco to improve reception.

"ARRRGGHHH! What a mess!" - deleted from my previous post.

I stand by everything else I have stated.  I brought up Lionel to contrast their product implementation(s) with what I believe to be a more consistent approach by MTH.

In no way do I see my statements ,and those of others as a "destructive rant for beginners"  and see no "inaccurate descriptions" in what I have said.

Time to get back to the DCS Explorer!  Any updates on when the RTR sets will arrive and ship? 

"deleted from my previous post."

Thanks. Gracious of you to recognize that wasn't a productive comment.  Appreciate sticking to facts and opinions without emotional/pejorative outbursts .

I do hope the Explorer fulfills everyone's expectations and is a positive contribution to the hobby.  I'm not rooting for anyone to fail.

We've added the ability to set max speed on the Explorer app.  It was a simple change.

Landsteiner posted:

 No limitations on the use of a smart device period, and the app is free.

The App can only run one engine at a time. Not three simultaneously like the DCS Explorer. The only way to run three LionCheif engine with one controller is if you purchase (at an additional cost) a Universal remote which lacks many of the features the app has.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...00#75903721987113000

Railsounds posted:

Yes, that is correct. The ability to keep three locomotives in motion simultaneously is a feature of the Universal Remote that is not present in the iOS or Android LionChief Apps.

Maybe it is time to get back to the original question at hand.  What can the DCS Explorer do, and what can't it do?  The only productive comparison I can see is comparing which features we have in DCS that the Explorer can do, and which can't it do.

Mark Boyce posted:

Maybe it is time to get back to the original question at hand.  What can the DCS Explorer do, and what can't it do?  The only productive comparison I can see is comparing which features we have in DCS that the Explorer can do, and which can't it do.

I think the answer to operational differences is simple. Remember when the WIU first came out and you ran trains before buying the $4.99 standard upgrade? That is exactly how the Explorer will work, with the added bonus of now being able to set a max speed.

Powering the track is where things get more technical. You are limited to one fixed voltage output that will allow up to 5 amps of power.

A question I have is will the Explorer run on DC Power sources? Also what is the recommended maximum voltage input allowed? I have some old laptop power supplies that are DC 19 volts @ 4.75 amps that would be a perfect fit.

MTH RD posted:

We've added the ability to set max speed on the Explorer app.  It was a simple change.

FANTASTIC!!!

Now, if you could, at some point add the max speed feature to the free DCS app.  That way, when we let people run our trains with a phone/tablet and the free app, at our club, we can set the top speed too....

Mark,

The DCS Explorer can:

• Start Up/Shut Down
• Speed
• Direction
• Whistle/Horn (reg whistle - not quillable)
• Bell
• Cplr (front and rear)
• Headlight 
• Smoke (on/off only)
• Engine Sounds
• PFA
• Doppler
• Master Volume
• E-stop
• Engine Feature Reset
• Engine Factory Reset
• Start Up/Shut Down
• Speed
• Direction
• Whistle/Horn (reg whistle - not quillable)
• Bell
• Cplr (front and rear)
• Headlight 
• Smoke (on/off only)
• Engine Sounds
• PFA
• Doppler
• Master Volume
• E-stop
• Engine Feature Reset
• Engine Factory Reset, and

 (drum roll, please)

• SET MAX SPEED!

MTH RD posted:

We've added the ability to set max speed on the Explorer app.  It was a simple change.

I really hope you add this (and others like accel/decel) to the Premium app for consists. I think it's ridiculous to talk of getting rid of the remote when the app can't fully replace it yet!!

Engineer-Joe posted:

MTH RD posted:

We've added the ability to set max speed on the Explorer app.  It was a simple change.

I really hope you add this (and others like accel/decel) to the Premium app for consists. I think it's ridiculous to talk of getting rid of the remote when the app can't fully replace it yet!!

We'll add lots of things.  In the meantime, if you prefer the remote, then just enjoy.  We certainly won't be removing any features from the remote.  It's just that we won't be adding any either.

eddiem posted:

MTH RD posted:

We've added the ability to set max speed on the Explorer app.  It was a simple change.

FANTASTIC!!!

Now, if you could, at some point add the max speed feature to the free DCS app.  That way, when we let people run our trains with a phone/tablet and the free app, at our club, we can set the top speed too....

Done

Q about Accel / Decel.  I agree that it would be a great addition to the app.  But do these parameters affect how the loco operates in conventional mode too? (i.e., variable track voltage)  Thanks for all your hard work!

@MTH RD We are on version 3 of the app. I thought you would have fixed the broken RPM's on Legacy diesels. Still flat RPM's. I'm afraid to check whether you have fixed the latency bug causing erratic conventional voltage regulation? Has that been addressed? (not eager to test this again until a fix has been confirmed,  for fear of more runaways)

GregR posted:

@MTH RD We are on version 3 of the app. I thought you would have fixed the broken RPM's on Legacy diesels. Still flat RPM's. I'm afraid to check whether you have fixed the latency bug causing erratic conventional voltage regulation? Has that been addressed? (not eager to test this again until a fix has been confirmed,  for fear of more runaways)

That's the thing, the rev levels work on some Legacy diesels and not others.  There are many incarnations of Legacy implementations.  We tried to hit the majority but, apparently have missed on this one.  We'll get it.  To be honest, no specific effort to resolve this was applied to either of the two premium app updates.  Again, we'll get to it.  I'm thinking we can offer even more Legacy enhancements.

MTH RD posted:

GregR posted:

@MTH RD We are on version 3 of the app. I thought you would have fixed the broken RPM's on Legacy diesels. Still flat RPM's. I'm afraid to check whether you have fixed the latency bug causing erratic conventional voltage regulation? Has that been addressed? (not eager to test this again until a fix has been confirmed,  for fear of more runaways)

That's the thing, the rev levels work on some Legacy diesels and not others.  There are many incarnations of Legacy implementations.  We tried to hit the majority but, apparently have missed on this one.  We'll get it.  To be honest, no specific effort to resolve this was applied to either of the two premium app updates.  Again, we'll get to it.  I'm thinking we can offer even more Legacy enhancements.

Thanks for the update and all your hard work on an excellent app! Looking forward to see what’s coming in the future. 

MTH RD posted:

eddiem posted:

MTH RD posted:

We've added the ability to set max speed on the Explorer app.  It was a simple change.

FANTASTIC!!!

Now, if you could, at some point add the max speed feature to the free DCS app.  That way, when we let people run our trains with a phone/tablet and the free app, at our club, we can set the top speed too....

Done

I see that the Max Speed can now be locked by a user assigned password. After you set a password is there anyway to change or clear it? It only prompts for the password again when you re-enable the feature.

H1000,

In order to reset the password, it’s necessary to reset the app. Since this will clear all of the app’s content, it’s a good idea to export the app’s data before doing the reset so that the data may be re-imported.

This and a whole lot more about DCS WiFi is all in MTH’s “The DCS WiFi Companion 1st Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store! Get the free TMCC & Legacy Addendum here!

Still trying to figure out this last detail...

You get free app and install.

You upgrade free app to Standard app.

You get a new DCS EXP.  It won't work with the standard app.  Can you install the free app on the same (Android) phone that the Standard app is already on?  They seem to be the same app at the "store"... and, if you can, will the icon be different so you can start the free app to run with the DCS EXP or start the better app the run with Wifi/TIU setup?

Interesting.  My app updated yesterday for Explorer Compatibility.  It's the full version.

eddiem posted:

Still trying to figure out this last detail...

You get free app and install.

You upgrade free app to Standard app.

You get a new DCS EXP.  It won't work with the standard app.  Can you install the free app on the same (Android) phone that the Standard app is already on?  They seem to be the same app at the "store"... and, if you can, will the icon be different so you can start the free app to run with the DCS EXP or start the better app the run with Wifi/TIU setup?

It sounds like its all the same app - you just tell it what setup you're using it with.

Eddie,

First, the upgrade to the Standard app isn’t free - it’s $4.95.

Second, all versions of the app can work with the DCS Explorer. However, regardless of the app version, they allow only the limited feature set of the DCS Explorer.

The DCS App in all versions works with the DCS Explorer.

Roving Sign posted:

It sounds like its all the same app - you just tell it what setup you're using it with.

Yes exactly.

One app for both devices (DCS Explorer or WIU/TIU). You can only use one or the other, not both at the same time. You select within the app if you are using the Explorer or the WIU.

While the Free app operates identically for both the WIU and the DCS Explorer, you still need to the select within the app which device you are using. When the selection change is made the app will function differently and impose the limitations of the Explorer if selected.

If the DCS Explorer is selected, the features of either of the two Paid apps for the WIU (Standard & Premium) will not be available nor will you be able to communicate with any WIU.

If you have the WIU selected, it will impose the limitations based on the highest level of the paid app you have purchased (Free, Standard, or Premium) nor will you be able communicate with any DCS Explorer.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

H1000,

In order to reset the password, it’s necessary to reset the app. Since this will clear all of the app’s content, it’s a good idea to export the app’s data before doing the reset so that the data may be re-imported.

---

This and a whole lot more about DCS WiFi is all in MTH’s “The DCS WiFi Companion 1st Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store! Get the free TMCC & Legacy Addendum here!

Barry,

With how fast and easy it is for MTH to make changes and add new features to the app, I image you are always busy with writing additions to the WiFI Companion. I'm glad to have purchased the digital version!

Barry, yes I get that the Standard is $4.95...that's the one I have.

It was unclear from some MTH RD posts that the not-free versions of the app would run but in limited mode.  It sounded to me like the only app that had the choice of WIU/TIU or DCS EXP was the free one.  I wonder if that means that the free app (either version) has the "set max speed" mode (which the free WIU/TIU version  didn't have the last time I checked!).  MTH RD stated it was added recently  to the DCS EXP version (after my request) but now I'm not sure if it was added ONLY to the free DCS EXP version, or both that and the free WIU/TIU version.

Eddie,

MTH RD stated it was added recently  to the DCS EXP version (after my request) but now I'm not sure if it was added ONLY to the free DCS EXP version, or both that and the free WIU/TIU version.

I can't say for sure (I'm away from home this week), however, I suspect that it was added to both.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Eddie,

MTH RD stated it was added recently  to the DCS EXP version (after my request) but now I'm not sure if it was added ONLY to the free DCS EXP version, or both that and the free WIU/TIU version.

I can't say for sure (I'm away from home this week), however, I suspect that it was added to both.

Both versions have the MAX SPEED feature. It is also available when you have purchased the Standard or Premium app upgrade.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

H1000,

In order to reset the password, it’s necessary to reset the app. Since this will clear all of the app’s content, it’s a good idea to export the app’s data before doing the reset so that the data may be re-imported.

Barry, I tried this procedure last night and it didn't work.  I tried both an App reset and uninstall / re-install of the app. In both cases after I imported the data file, the password was still set. 

I figured the Password was part of the export file so I started to look at that file to see if something could be done. After opening the file with a text editor on my computer, it's a pretty simple file that one could easily manipulate (can you image adding the trolley functions button to a Big Boy, it wouldn't work of course!).

After sifting through all of my various settings, engines, switches and accessories, Near the bottom I found the section "persistent_app_settings". Sub items in this section included weather the e-stop button is displayed, which mode the app is in (TIU or EXPLORER), and sure enough the "max_speed_locked" true or false with "settings_password" with my current password displayed in clear text. The security of the password is (laughable) non existent but it's not like we're protecting personal or banking info.

From here I can modify the file to remove the password or change it to anything I want. While this is "childsplay" for me it may be a rather difficult process for others. It should probable be addressed by MTH because in time, I am sure the question will pop up "I forgot my MAX SPEED password, how do I reset it?"

I've only tested this on an Android platform as I do not have the DCS app on my iPad.

H1000,

That’s good to know about the password being persistent in the export file and makes sense from a “security” point of view. My personal preference would be to scrap password protection altogether, particularly as it relates to E-stop visibility.

Regardless, the export file is the same format for iOS and Android.

MTH RD posted:

eddiem posted:

MTH RD posted:

We've added the ability to set max speed on the Explorer app.  It was a simple change.

FANTASTIC!!!

Now, if you could, at some point add the max speed feature to the free DCS app.  That way, when we let people run our trains with a phone/tablet and the free app, at our club, we can set the top speed too....

Done

Maybe I missed something here but I didn't see how the MAX SPEED lock is effective in the free app when using the WIU & TIU combination.

When a new device has the Free app and connected to the WIU, you can add new engines (up to three) and enable the max speed lock with a password. However, you can not change the max speed (before enabling the lock) of any engine without first purchasing the Standard or Premium upgrade. This kind of makes the MAX SPEED function useless with the Free app in TIU Mode because you can only lock the speed to 120 SMPH.

If I overlooked something please let me know, it's been a long night.

H1000, as I recall, that's how I dug out what the password is, after forgetting it.

I know this probably isn't the best place to ask this question but is settings for the saved engines set in the app's memory or the DCS Explorer's memory?   So say for example if I purchase a new phone do I have re-setup everything?

Other than that question, I feel like the DCS explorer is the best option for me.  I am attempting to build a ceiling loop with a siding going into my train closet. (72"x34" is not optimal for O Gauge, so ceiling won) The siding would house one engine and have one engine running on the loop, and seeing as I had mostly MTH protosound 2 engines and figured it would make things a heck of a lot easier if I used command control for the set up.  Hopefully the DCS explorer comes in December and I can test it on the tree loop first.

If one backs up the DATA in the phone/tablet to a computer, it can be retrieved by the app that you install on your new phone.  Data should always be backed up, whether you have remote or use the app.