As all you experts know I pretty much given up on MU's. Well decided to try again, After I build my lash up I adjust the sounds and other stuff, but only the lead locomotive accepts the change. I don't remember that before. I can select the other locomotive's and adjust each one separately, than go back to Lashup and push save button, it seems to be OK. Is this the way it is now? I tried different locomotives ps2 and ps3. Only these locomotives are on the powered tracks.
Thanks
Clem
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I have the same trouble and is frustrating. Add to the fact that when I have to go and select the 2nd loco it has mysteriously moved to the inactive list so there are extra buttons to push.
My best luck with lashups is when ALL power is off and I lift up the handles on the Z4000 to start DCS operations.
If I am running other trains and decide to power up a dead section of track where a lash up already exists, it behaves very poorly. I have to shut down everything and start DCS and the Z4000 fresh with the lashup ready to go.
Not having fun with Lashups.
Ron
Ron...... I'm on 6.0.........Seems like my lash-up's where better way back at 4.3 or older. I don't mind to much adjusting everything separately if it would stay that way. I still feel like I should only have to adjust a locomotive one time. and it stay that way until I change it. Single or MU. Guess I'll just keep using the ALL feature.
ALL won't work for me. I have an ABBA set with independant PS3 A units. I would have to turn the trailing A around facing forward and that would look silly. It would also hamper operations if I have other users. The save lashup button seems to only work for that session. Next session, everything is messed up again.
It couldn't possibly be a DCS problem... it must be us. <grin>
Ron
ALL won't work for me. I have an ABBA set with independant PS3 A units. I would have to turn the trailing A around facing forward and that would look silly.
Yep having to ability to change the direction on start up would be a neat feature... not only for your ABBA but also for units like Train Masters , RS-11 GP 7/9s . I've been pushing this feature for years.
clem k posted:As all you experts know I pretty much given up on MU's. Well decided to try again, After I build my lash up I adjust the sounds and other stuff, but only the lead locomotive accepts the change. I don't remember that before. I can select the other locomotive's and adjust each one separately, than go back to Lashup and push save button, it seems to be OK. Is this the way it is now? I tried different locomotives ps2 and ps3. Only these locomotives are on the powered tracks.
Thanks
Clem
Yes that's how I've done it since MTH added the "save" soft key. I haven't done it with the app yet.
clem k posted:Ron...... I'm on 6.0.........
You should go to 6.1 for all the app updates.
Ron,
Add to the fact that when I have to go and select the 2nd loco it has mysteriously moved to the inactive list so there are extra buttons to push.
There's n nothing "mysterious" about it. That's the way that lashups work.
When a lashup is started up, its members go Inactive. When a member is started up, all lashups of which it's a member go Inactive. I expect that it's done this way so that lashups can be included in ALL Engines operations.
My best luck with lashups is when ALL power is off and I lift up the handles on the Z4000 to start DCS operations.
That's because if a lashup misses the watchdog signal, it will startup and do everything except move.
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FWIW i run three/ 5 engine mu's each session. I stayed with 4.2 as it is very stable. All engines remain in the active list and remember there individual settings. It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared. All my power is ps3 and ps2 3v.
Hey Joe will that fix the problem I'm having ?
I don't remember every update. I do know that stuff gets fixed and upgrades are made. So whenever there's an issue and an update was made, I would always do the upgrade.
I know it added stuff to the app control of lashups.
Joe wish I knew it would make an improvement. Really don't care about the app, I sold my wifi. I think Willygee has the best answer so far. Unfortunetly I 'm thinking I will have to go to super TIU with the expansion I have in mind.
If I were being fully honest, I haven't been that happy since the old days of DCS ( 2.x ??)
There have been issues with each release that have drove me nuts at times. So I'm afraid to announce that 6.1 is the best. I still wait for issues to pop up (and they do). Simple mistakes made in the program seem to get overlooked and then not caught until enough users complain. Somewhere after 4.x up until now, I had so many problems in different directions that I got lost keeping track of what fixed what.
I had a couple of engines run the wrong speed and the people at MTH blamed me. Seems like a backwards way to run a business to me, blaming the customer for defects. Then denying that they exist. I've seen fellow users actually dump the system over issues. I got an Amtrak engine painted the wrong color and absolutely no reply or even acknowledgement. Ah well.
So when I run into problems, I don't bother keeping exact logs of what happened as long as at some point, it got fixed. I could be a better supporting customer and I try to help others as I stick with this system. I constantly compare DCC stuff as I know where I came from. I remain a loyal MTH customer as I feel I can be. I still like the system and I live through any issues.
So when I read posts where others state problems and replies seem to deny they exist, I follow along to see the issue thru. I have learned not to post every issue as sometimes they are my fault. Sometimes, it's a bug. Sometimes, I believe the program was not properly beta tested before releasing it. Now I'm not blaming each beta tester. What I'm saying is that the program was not fully tested. Each tester may not have all the components that some advanced customers do. I don't know what the answer would be? I do know that MTH seems to look into stuff if enough of us insist that there's a problem. Otherwise it appears to get swept under the rug and ignored.
That leads to more issues down the road that never got fully fixed and can morph into something else.
To make things more fun for me, some users question who I am to even respond as I'm not qualified. Heck MTH did it so why not? 100 MTH engines don't qualify me for even knowing what to do with problems. Several installs don't make me a tech. Numerous engine fixes and software fix suggestions still don't make me a tech. I don't want to be qualified. I am just a customer and try to be supportive.
In closing, I do like 6.1 so far. The latest releases seemed geared towards the app. If one doesn't use the app they aren't getting the latest features or changes. The remote still works. Someday very soon, it may not. I feel as though it's on the back burner for any issues with the app being the star of attention. I got that, from a MTH reply, not something I made up. No matter which path MTH chooses to pursue, I will follow. I will speak up when I can.
Joe thank you, Your last paragraph says it all, I feel like I'm getting pushed into something I don't want. When it's no longer fun its time for me to leave.
Willy,
It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared.
That's just not true at all.
Barry Broskowitz posted:Willy,
It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared.
That's just not true at all.
I should have been more clear..the stability for mu's disappeared.
this is real interesting.
it is the exact same lash up issue we are having at the club
I don't know anymore. I get lashups where member engines are silent with features as they should be. Then I get some where member engines sound their horns and bells. Every once in awhile I see flashing number boards or weird occurrences. I think things move forward and then they don't. It doesn't bother me anymore as long as they go the same direction!
Overall I'm happy that I can run PS2 and PS3 engine together, at all! I'm sure it takes some extra programming and there will be issues.
I should have kept a list of all the stuff that sent me for a loop. There were engines stuck in the inactive, lost engine addresses, flashing number board lights, engines confused over direction, PFA engines would not resume speed after, etc. etc.
MTH did a decent job fixing most if not all. It took several DCS versions to get stable full results. I believe 6.1 to be one of the best so far. I give up on what I consider the small issues left with DCS. I am happy overall now. I should make that clear, I'm just afraid to announce it still! I do still have small issues with volume, sounds, and lights that I learn to overlook.
the stability for mu's disappeared.
Still not true.
Mark,
Every time they would shut the power down (end of the day or an engine changeout on another loop and the layout was shutdown) they would have to go back in and re-enter the Lashup in the remote.
It simply isn't a DCS software problem. I'v built literally 50 lashups under DCS 6.0 and then DCS 6.1 and I never break them down. They just startup every time that I want to run them over a period of months and years.
If you truly experienced the issue that you describe, there was something else going on. One thing that comes to mind is that, perhaps, the version of DCS that you thought was in the TIU and remote was not actually the same. A second, although less likely, possibility is that the TIU or remote was somehow defective.
If this was actually a defect in DCS, I'm absolutely certain that I and other beta testers would have seen it firsthand.
willygee posted:Barry Broskowitz posted:Willy,
It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared.
That's just not true at all.
I should have been more clear..the stability for mu's disappeared.
It almost.... drove me away from DCS. I do know what you are describing. It was very frustrating and some major issues were not addressed publicly. That does not mean they were not found and/ or fixed. I tried to limit my use of certain DCS releases as the bugs bit me hard.
I believe that 6.1 is much better than anything recently released for us users that run multiple engine consists of mixed ps2 and ps3.
One thing I believe that anyone coming from the old DCS version 4.2 will have to do, is dump any (mu's) consists in the remote and re-write them. There have been way too many changes for them to react correctly.
Don't try and mix versions of old DCS and new with the remotes and TIUs. Who the heck would know what the result could be?????????
Mark,
I repeat:
If you truly experienced the issue that you describe, there was something else going on. One thing that comes to mind is that, perhaps, the version of DCS that you thought was in the TIU and remote was not actually the same. A second, although less likely, possibility is that the TIU or remote was somehow defective.
Barry Broskowitz posted:Mark,
I repeat:
If you truly experienced the issue that you describe, there was something else going on. One thing that comes to mind is that, perhaps, the version of DCS that you thought was in the TIU and remote was not actually the same. A second, although less likely, possibility is that the TIU or remote was somehow defective.
you experts are all claiming there is nothing wrong yet many are claiming there is an issue.
how can so many claim an issue and mth R&D and you experts claim there is not?
is this an issue like the takata air bags where months went by and takata claimed no issue until is was proven they were wrong????
something is going on and just because you experts can not duplicate the issue does not mean it is not there.
STOP TREATING US LIKE WE ARE STUPID!!!!!
My dcs 6.0 and all my engines are PS3's everything works well except for one thing, LASH UPS.
I can make a lash up and everything will work well the first time I run it. The next time I run it the rear engine does not start up in sync. I then have to start the rear engine then go back to the lash up and then everything is fine. Then the next time I run it neither engine will start up in sync forcing me to delete the entire lash up.
I do the lash up again and the same thing happens. I have spoken to MTH about this and they have no clue why it is happening. There is a glitch in the system and it seems no one knows how to fix it.
Dave
DAVID1, I'm at 6.0 yet too and have had that same issue. I get so busy, where any spare time I get, I just want to get my fix of running trains. It helps us decompress after a hectic day. I've been putting off upgrading to 6.1 and use the excuse that as soon as I do 6.2 will come out. I guess it's time to bite the bullet and see if 6.1 fixed that issue.
David1 & Dave Zucall,
The next time I run it the rear engine does not start up in sync. I then have to start the rear engine then go back to the lash up and then everything is fine.
There is, or at least was, a bug in lashups regrading a direction-sync issue with, mainly, PS3 engines. The issue was first brought to my attention by my friends at Ready to Roll and, although I couldn't duplicate it (and never was able to do so), I reported it to MTH R&D and they were, indeed, able to verify it.
If I recall correctly, the bug was in 5.0 or 5.1 and the workaround I gave the store at the time was simply to press DIR a couple of times after starting up the lashup, before moving it out. The bug was consistent though intermittent and I believe that it was scheduled to be corrected in a later release. However, once again, since I never was able to reproduce it, I cannot say for sure if it was fixed.
Regardless, try the workaround that worked for Ready to Roll and see if that does it for you.
It's worth noting that this kind of thing is very different from a "disappearing" lashup if one understands how lashups work "under the hood", so to speak. The direction-sync issue is easy to see as a bug where the other issue is most certainly a lot more like defective hardware or operator error. A DCS Remote that's working properly simply cannot "disappear" a lashup on a regular basis. This is different from losing a DCS ID# occasionally.
To Mark Strittmatter (only),
One thing I that I can offer that occurs to me is that if the lashup was consistently built in DCS ID#1, that might be a factor to consider. Some have found DCS ID#1 to be a bit squirrelly where lashups are concerned. While I haven't myself seen any issues in this regard, others I know well and trust have, at times, said things that make me feel like there might be a "lashup DCS Bermuda Triangle" lurking about in DCS ID#1. 
OK....now this "conversation" is getting personal. No need to make negative implications about personalities, abilities, knowledge, etc..... Just remember...there are many people reading these threads and will make their future decisions based on perceptions that are made here. Good civil communications are important in working together to solve what is going on.... From my perspective and experience, there are many factors that can create unique electrical situations on our layouts. Observations on one layout may not be able to be duplicated on another layout for various reasons having to do with layout plan, wiring, components....heck, who knows?! With that in mind, when multiple operators report the same or similar problem, taking into account the uniqueness of each layout, then there IS something going on. Now....wouldn't it be nice to just be able to discuss the problem and work together to see what it could be?
Thank you for your reply Barry. I have gotten into the habit of starting each engine separately then starting the lash up. I've actually come to enjoy hearing each diesel start separately and wish that MTH could make each engine start separately, one after the other, when we start a lash up. This practice has helped to eliminate throwing traction tires because one engines didn't hear its name and stayed asleep sitting there while the others spin their wheels trying to pull out. One experiment I would like to see performed, if engines are missing their start up command, is to swap out fixed one with fixed two, then try again or swap out with another TIU to see if the engines respond better to the start up command. That way we could see if the problem is the TIU channel not sending a good clean signal to the engines. I say this because I've come to find when changing sound files in an engine some channels are faster then others and some TIU's are faster then others. So can that Bermuda Triangle be in the performance of the channel or TIU being used?
I met Mike Wolf yesterday and it was a pleasant conversation. He likes what the App is doing but says there will br updates to it and other things to be added as we go along.
I would like someone to help us who have no clue what we are doing and make a video on how to correctly do everything while Consisting multiple units on the app. How to add and set up, run the lash up and how to break it and return the Locos back to normal.
I haven’t ran Lash ups with the App, I’m just curious to know how they work.
Thanks
My problem is not that they disappear, it's that they don't hold their settings. Usually but not always only the lead locomotive stays the way its set. Sounds change,deceleration change, smoke changes and rarely one fails to move. I find PS2 by far more reliable. My original question is how come when I set a lash-up's settings only the lead engine accepts the change, all others have to be done separately, I build my lash-ups on a dedicated block with no other power units or illuminated rolling stock. All other blocks are turned off. When I run the same MU as ALL instead everything works just fine. Signal test is 10.
I still think MU's worked better in earlier versions of DCS. I do like the fact I can now use lash-ups with ALL, thats why I tried this after 2 years of no MU's, bad part is I can only use one ALL at a time.
Clem OP
clem k posted:bad part is I can only use one ALL at a time.
Clem OP
I wonder if you had a second remote and TIU set-up? Couldn't you then do another "all" on different tracks?
Tim,
I haven’t ran Lash ups with the App, I’m just curious to know how they work.
Actually, IMO, if anything they run better!
Clem,
it's that they don't hold their settings. Usually but not always only the lead locomotive stays the way its set. Sounds change,deceleration change, smoke changes and rarely one fails to move.
That was a big change starting with DCS 5.0. There's an FSV soft key to save the lashup's settings after changing the settings for member engines.
I still think MU's worked better in earlier versions of DCS.
That may be so, however, I can assure you that lashup's never worked as well as they work with DCS 6.1.
This post is a place to air out some frustration over just how long it took to get some reliable MUs with DCS. Sure when they focused on getting the app out we all took a back seat and had to wait even longer to get our MU problems fixed. For anyone just looking in it seems like we are just bashing. For someone like Barry, it appears that it's directed at him.
I think the big problem is some people here don't realize that we waited for more than a year, for issues to get resolved. Some are still not.
I think the best course moving forward has to be that everyone upgrade to 6.1 who wants to post. Not 6.0 or 5.X.... It at least gets the problems on level playing field. It gives MTH the best facts of what's happening.
Any attacks don't help here. Posting some facts about each problem don't help if the version of DCS is not fully up to date or even worse, the user has no idea what they're actually using and maybe a mix of versions. That does create problems all of it's own.
Barry, I have to apologize for what may seem like bad posts. It's been long enough that we should be able to talk about what happened with DCS versions after 4.2 and up until now. It's not an attack on you. It is factual and should be discussed as some of the issues remain. How do we move forward without getting deleted or ignored??
Again, 6.1 seem to fix many issues overall and I am pleased with the attempts so far.
Joe,
I wonder if you had a second remote and TIU set-up? Couldn't you then do another "all" on different tracks?
Absolutely, you could! The ALL Engines command works off the Active Engine List in a given remote.That's why when a lashup is Active, members fo to the Inactive list and vice-versa. Otherwise, confusion could result.
I think the best course moving forward has to be that everyone upgrade to 6.1 who wants to post. Not 6.0 or 5.X.... It at least gets the problems on level playing field. It gives MTH the best facts of what's happening.
I couldn't agree more!
I only have 1 track and 1 TIU.
Will 6.1 let my MU hold their settings ?
I use the FSV button
Clem
Clem,
Will 6.1 let my MU hold their settings ?
It does for me.
Ron045 posted:... It couldn't possibly be a DCS problem... it must be us. <grin> ...
In the whopping two months I've been operating DCS and Legacy together on my new layout, I'm drawing the early conclusions that DCS is more "finicky" with various settings than Legacy. Whether it's because both systems are "trying" to co-exist with each other, I can't say for sure.
What I can say with absolute certainty is this: when we can shut down the power, go grab a cup of coffee, and then return back a few minutes later to power up the layout again... and perform the EXACT SAME SEQUENCE OF KEYSTROKES BUT GET DIFFERENT RESULTS... that tells be there are definite gremlins lurking in the code.
Neither system is bullet-proof. But fortunately things work "reasonably" well together as long as I don't push things to their limits. It seems the KISS concept is alive and well in toy train land these days. No question about that. 
David
OGR PUBLISHER posted:OK....now this "conversation" is getting personal. No need to make negative implications about personalities, abilities, knowledge, etc..... Just remember...there are many people reading these threads and will make their future decisions based on perceptions that are made here. Good civil communications are important in working together to solve what is going on.... From my perspective and experience, there are many factors that can create unique electrical situations on our layouts. Observations on one layout may not be able to be duplicated on another layout for various reasons having to do with layout plan, wiring, components....heck, who knows?! With that in mind, when multiple operators report the same or similar problem, taking into account the uniqueness of each layout, then there IS something going on. Now....wouldn't it be nice to just be able to discuss the problem and work together to see what it could be?
Yep! keep your stick on the ice guys.
David,
I'm drawing the early conclusions that DCS is more "finicky" with various settings than Legacy.
Without meaning to incite a riot, I'd just like to point out that there are a number of things that DCS can do that Legacy cannot, due to the two-way nature of DCS communications with engines as opposed to the one-way method used by Legacy (and TMCC).
Things such as adjusting and saving individual lashup member engine settings,I believe, fall into that category. If I am mistaken, someone please correct me. A few other items include keeping track of miles and hours, measuring routes, track voltage, and signal strength levels.
While we may trip across an anomaly or two, which may or may not be an actual DCS defect, it's worth noting that these features my not be available at all in Legacy.
This is not by any means a measure of which is the better system, rather, it's an opinion regarding the above statement.
clem k posted:I only have 1 track and 1 TIU.
Will 6.1 let my MU hold their settings ?
I use the FSV button
Clem
I have varied success with 6.1 and FSV. I can tell you the the FSV does work for the entire session the train is operating. But when I power down and come back another day, all bets are of. And typically it is the trailing or 2nd unit that is the problem.
I run with smoke off... The 2nd unit will start with smoke on.
I run with engine noise silent, or near silent. The 2nd unit will start with 100% engine noise.
Trains will start to pull in opposite directions. Barry is correct, hit DIR a few times and they seem to come back into sync.
Trying to turn off the smoke or turn down the engine noise of the Lash Up will only affect the lead engine. In order for me to turn off the smoke and sound of the 2nd engine I must pull it out of inactive, then select that specific engine, turn the smoke and engine sound off, then return to pull the lashup out of inactive and select that... Hopefully all will work and I can select FSV once again to keep it set for that session.
That's my experience. DCS S/W? TIU H/W? PS2 or PS3 engine problems? My layout wiring? Dirty Track? DCS remote or batteries? User error? A combination of any or all of these? Who knows.
Ron
You couldn't have said it any better ENGINEER JOE. If BARRY is confident with 6.1, that should give us all the green light to take the plunge. Then if we're all at 6.1 and there is a reoccurring issue, BARRY could chase it down. That would really cut down on the Lash Up post.
Thank you Ron That describes what happens to me, I keep all my sounds at 20%, smoke set to light.
Another thing that happens everyday with single locomotives and MU, after shut down the next startup... engine sounds and accent sounds go from 20% to 70% and sometimes smoke from off- to- on.
When running if power is cut for any reason the locomotives lock up tight !! what happened to 1960 technology of flywheel coasting drive ? they use to coast.
You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct?
That's the way lashups have always worked.
Barry Broskowitz posted:You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct?
That's the way lashups have always worked.
??? So what value is the FSV? That makes no sense at all. Why would they design it that way?
Would I be the only one who thinks v6.2 should just save YOUR last desired setting until YOU are ready to change it?
Ron
?? I set all my power units the same way all the time wether its MU or single. so there fore why does it ever change.
Ill think like Joe now, thats just the way DCS is.
All I want to know is why do my sound settings always change from 20% to 70% and only the engine sound and accent sound ? why 70 why not some other value ? and why just those two?
Is the volume pot on any of those engines set at around 70%?
Maybe that's a setting they chose?
Thats a good point Joe ! I never thought of that because I never touch them, I know when it misses watchdog signal its 100%. Doesn't remote override manual settings ? it used too.
Ron,
So what value is the FSV?
It preserves settings from Shut Down to Startup.
A DCS engine can only have one set of settings at any time. Lashup member engine settings are preserved until the member engine is started up as an individual. At that time, its default engine settings are restored.
Clem,
All I want to know is why do my sound settings always change from 20% to 70% and only the engine sound and accent sound ? why 70 why not some other value ?
They return to 70% because 70% is the DCS default setting value for those 2 settings.
and why just those two?
What else did you change, and to what value?
Barry Broskowitz posted:It preserves settings from Shut Down to Startup.
Earlier post...
You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct?
Your statements seem conflicting... or am I interpreting them incorrectly? How can they be preserved yet reset to defaults?
Ron
When did they set the default settings ? versions ago that didn't happen.
I never touch the volume pots
When the engine is brand-new all sounds and smoke come up 100% missing watch dog signal does the same thing.
I set all sounds at 20% except horn which might go to 30%
All smoke is Min.
brakes off, coupler off, click clack off,
Ditch lights auto
Thats how I run all of them, single, ALL, or MU.
I use the FSV when it pops up with Lash up mode.
I have yet to under stand why any of those adjustments have to change ever. If I like it at 20% single I'm darn sure don't want it louder in MU.
Clem, occasionally I have to do a TIU reset and that has corrected sound changing problems for me. It don't last very long though. I find myself doing it about every 4th or 5th running session.
Today I created a lash up and when done I hit the FSV key. Everything worked great. Returned to it and the rear engine was out of sync.
I then hit dir. Button a few times and everything was in sync. At least for now that is a workable fix until MTH can fix the software in the next release.
thanks for the tip Barry B.
Dave
David 1 Did your sounds go out of sync or just the direction ?
I usually keep the sounds around 40% then adjust them when they are in a lash up together. The sounds don't usually go out of sync.
Dave
Ron,
Your statements seem conflicting... or am I interpreting them incorrectly? How can they be preserved yet reset to defaults?
There's no conflict at all.
It preserves settings from Shut Down to Startup - of the lashup, without Starting Up a member engine by itself in-between.
You do all know that if you startup a lashup member, shut it down, and then startup and run the lashup, all of the member engine, settings are reset to lashup defaults, correct? - when the lashup is Shut Down and then a member engine is Started Up.
Clem,
When did they set the default settings ? versions ago that didn't happen.
Yes, they most certainly did. It's been that way ever since DCS first started supporting lashups.
Barry I have been building MU since about version one, I don't remember ever having that problem with single or MU.
they may have went back to 100%, but then it was all sounds. This is just engine and accent sounds on all my engines even when I run single locomotives. Only two sounds in that whole menu of sounds go to default of 70% ! that don't sound right. all other sounds keep there 20% setting horn, bell, etc.
Hmmmm
Well it seems I was premature on the fix I tried on my lash up. After going out to dinner I came home and started it up again. This time the rear unit came on at full power and pressing the direction button did nothing but change the direction but did not sync the engines. It was impossible to get them to do anything. I deleted the engines from the lash up. I did loose two traction tires in this mess.
I guess I will give up on lash ups for now. Guess I'll upgrade to 6.1 and see if that makes a difference.
Dave
Clem,
You can believe whatever you like. I'm done with this discussion.
Hey Barry don't abandon all of us. There are real problems with lash ups and they are real. We need help to solve the problem.
Dave
I am using V5.0 since I have no desire to use my cell phone for anything other than a phone. I too have had problems with lashups. My constantly used lashup has a GE EVO2010 running lead and a CSX412 with PS2 (I think?) running trail. The CSX has a new MTH battery. The PS3 EVO has more features than the PS2, and many of the lead EVO features "disappear" when I run in MU, like SXS. If I hit the reverse button on my remote, and then hit the forward button, the traveling lights on the EVO go out and there is no way to reset them using anything in the menu. (If I hit the reverse button, the ditch lights go out on the EVO but operate correctly on the PS2 CSX. When I hit the direction button again, the ditch lights in the EVO are not lit.) I use the "function save lashup" button each time but the consist still does not retain the settings. I also have had the problem of one loco starting up and the second engine "dead".
I also have two Mohawks. When I doublehead them, the variable whistle and some other features that are used for single locomotive operation "disappear".
I believe that MTH is severely underestimating how many of us run locomotives doubleheaded or in MU (i.e. lash ups).
I run with two TIU's in Super Mode and track signals are 8-10 everywhere on the layout. My two remotes have fresh batteries. I am sure that both TIU's and both remotes are V5.0 since they were upgraded by a MTH Service Center, at a cost.....
My general experience with software upgrades is that in a number of cases the upgrade solved one set of problems but created others, and that is my opinion and one reason that I won't sign up for an upgrade whenever one is announced.
I do not have a tablet and the location of my desktop computer and the layout and its power supplies make it impractical to do my own downloads, so I have just elected to put up with the idiosyncrasies. I do find that I am running my layout less and less...
Hudson5432 posted:I am using V5.0 since I have no desire...
So, if you have no desire to update, what are you really saying?
You can't compare what's happening, if you won't do the upgrades.
Do you want people to review the flaws of old DCS versions????
I see why Barry left!
Clem, Thank you for bringing up this question and everyone (especially Barry) for commenting! I just tried a lashup for the first time a week or so ago. It worked, but I haven't gotten back to it to see if I am having any issues spoken of. I'll try to get back to it this weekend. I'm upgraded, and agree if Barry says that is best, then I'm going with it.
I guess I'm glad I only found this topic today. I'm glad I missed out on whatever Alan had to chastise us for.
I am saying that I won't update as often. There are four reasons for my decision. First, the latest update includes cell phone features that I won't use. Second, I have learned to "live with" some of the problems that each particular version had. Third, some of the "fixes" included with updates are not well identified or vague, and at times difficult to determine. Fourth, since I started with V2.10, each update has brought new issues.
With the post I was hopeful that someone would identify something that I was doing incorrectly, and ID the fix, but based on the quantity of posts I no longer believe that "I" am the problem.
Engineer-Joe posted:Hudson5432 posted:I am using V5.0 since I have no desire...
So, if you have no desire to update, what are you really saying?
You can't compare what's happening, if you won't do the upgrades.
Do you want people to review the flaws of old DCS versions????
I see why Barry left!
No need to chastise somebody for asking a question. He asked the question, that should be what you respond to otherwise don't post.
The problem with lash ups is real and should be addressed which Barry did but could not solve the problems the bunch of us are having.
Dave
Ok then. So the correct answer is not the best answer?
Hudson,
I am using V5.0
Good for you. That's very unfortunate.
My general experience with software upgrades is that in a number of cases the upgrade solved one set of problems but created others, and that is my opinion and one reason that I won't sign up for an upgrade whenever one is announced.
That's nice. So, the rest of us should try to fix whatever problems you're having because you won''t do the sensible thing?
Since you've gotten specific, let me answer you point by point.
First, the latest update includes cell phone features that I won't use.
That's faulty reasoning. DCS 6.1 also includes corrections to bugs, some of which are lashup issues.
Second, I have learned to "live with" some of the problems that each particular version had.
Another bad reason. Those problems in previous release are typically corrected in later releases.
Third, some of the "fixes" included with updates are not well identified or vague, and at times difficult to determine.
That's another poor reason to not upgrade. If you can't understand what the upgrade does, ask someone who can spell it out for you.
Fourth, since I started with V2.10, each update has brought new issues.
That's a reason? Every version of Windows required fixes. Just like Windows, every DCS bug is typically corrected in a future release. However, you'll never know, will you?
As long as you see the upgrade glass as half-empty rather than as half-full, you're going to be complaining about bugs that have already been corrected.
Barry what are the lash-up issues 6.1 fixed ?
And where are they published or posted???
Barry
"some of which" and "typically" do not give me a lot of confidence.....
Hudson,
"some of which" and "typically" do not give me a lot of confidence.....
Tell someone who cares. Your arguments are specious and I'm done talking to you.
Clem,
Barry what are the lash-up issues 6.1 fixed ?
Try it and find out for yourself. There are only one or two cosmetic-level bugs of which I'm aware.
Nice answer
Clem,
Nice answer
Yes, I completely agree - thank you!
Ok fellows lets stay under control. Although I would like the 6.1 question answered.
Dave
wow!
Barry Broskowitz posted:Hudson,
"some of which" and "typically" do not give me a lot of confidence.....
Tell someone who cares. Your arguments are specious and I'm done talking to you.
Clem,
Barry what are the lash-up issues 6.1 fixed ?
Try it and find out for yourself. There are only one or two cosmetic-level bugs of which I'm aware.
Even with DCS 6.1 I have found management of MU's or lash-ups to be buggy and inconsistent on the best of days. Nothing anybody says here will convince me otherwise. And my sentiments have been echo'd by those who built and wired my layout too. On the simplest power loop of my layout, I have days when the lash-up of two Canadian Pacific Holiday Train locos works fine, and other days it can be a real brain-teaser. 
Commands to adjust sound might work on the lead engine one day, and leave the sound level untouched on the trailing engine. Think I'm kidding? Things were so inconsistent when I was filming a video the other day, I finally gave up on the lash-up for one particular video sequence that involved PFA announcements. Here's the scenario...
I'm double-heading two CP Holiday Train locomotives. When I activate the PFA dialogue to hear the special holiday announcements, the engine sounds of BOTH locomotives should drop in order to hear the dialog -- but that only happens on the lead loco. So the sounds of the trailing loco drown out the PFA dialog announcement. Sometimes the horn works on the lead loco... Other times it doesn't.
So I can only conclude the code is buggy, and doesn't properly handle certain scenarios. Either one part of the code is stepping on the other. Or the code wasn't designed to handle those situations. It's that simple.
You're talking to a former software engineer in my early career days, so I know what I'm talking about here. Things have certainly become complex when trying to get Legacy and DCS to work together. So I fully appreciate all that's being done to code this stuff, test it, and certify the "ready for prime-time stamp" to be put on things. And based on what I'm experiencing, we're not quite ready for that last step.
David
Has anyone tried using Fixed output 2, of the TIU, to see if things are any better? Some of my TIU's seem to communicate better through Fixed 2 then 1.
Dave Zucal posted:Has anyone tried using Fixed output 2, of the TIU, to see if things are any better? Some of my TIU's seem to communicate better through Fixed 2 then 1.
I use all my TIU out puts even have a Variable changed to fixed and never noticed a difference. I'll pay close attention next time and see if I notice any differences.
I'm outa here...
OK, maybe now I got hacked? My phone was turned off. I went to turn it on and it already was? It also was on the house router and downloaded an update.
So I try and build a large lash-up and all hell broke loose.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...14#77875232770245914
So either the orange guys struck back or something else??
Oh boy and I am just about to venture down this road with the addition of DCS to my layout. Maybe I should rethink this...
run one or two engines with the app for now. stick with the remote for bigger.
I’ve read all three pages of this thread and I can honestly say I’ve experienced all of the issue with a few more. I can feel your pain on this one. I’ve given up on diesel lashup and have sold all my MTH diesels. I’ll stick with my MTH steam for now. No issue running them.
all I can say is good luck, hope these issues will get address as MTH makes great engines, well built with very little QC isssues from the factory.
I thought it might be my old phone giving me issues so I tried my newer tablet. Here's the results so far this morning.
I pressed the add new engines icon as some weren't in the device. It added all six engines well. I built that same seven engine lash-up of mixed PS2 and PS3 engines. It ran well.
I pressed the refresh and all the engines went to active. I pressed edit and the lash-up moved to active and the member engines went inactive.
again it ran well.
So I purposely left the MTH app (closed it), and re-opened the MTH app. The engine lash-up was (or something else) there I think? in the top but said inactive.
everything else was left powered up and unchanged.
I pressed the refresh, all the engines went active. So I pressed the edit icon. The lash-up was in the listBUT there was no way to make it active!
So I am not impressed with something going wrong with the app so far. I can only guess that I have been missing issues as I always grab the remote first?
There have been smaller issues with that too.
using 3.1.0 build 49
DCS 6.1
Version L TIU with fixed channels #1&2
powered by Lionel 180w bricks and separate aux wall wart into tiu.
Joe,
The lash-up was in the list BUT there was no way to make it active!
Some questions:
Barry Broskowitz posted:Joe,
The lash-up was in the list BUT there was no way to make it active!
Some questions:
- Were you using an Apple or Android tablet?
- How did you try to access it?
- Exactly what was preventing you from moving it to the Active List?
- Did you get any error messages?
Android, by refreshing the app to read the engines and then edit to try and make the lash-up active
no errors and no edit button for it
I think I see the issue now. I did it all again and I only see six of the seven engines are active. It is not seeing my SD50 for some reason.
I will try the remote to see if it sees the SD50!
OK, so the remote doesn't see it either!
I pressed the engine name in the inactive list of the remote. It says "engine not on track"! Urrggg.
So it's parked on TIU L channel fixed 1 with 3 other engines attached. There are 3 more engines half way around the same loop on fixed #2.
So I press the read on the remote and it only finds 5 engines when the app saw 6?
I bring up the lead new PS3 SD70ACe. I press track signal test and it comes back 10 with the engine parked. I leave the test and the sound stays quiet (again) and I reset the engine sounds with the feature reset.
So??? do I remove some engines to see if the controllers then find the ones missing? or unplug the wifi ( I know that should make no difference but I like to try stuff)
or move the lash-up around for signal (it's ten)?
or stand on my head flap my arms and pray?
I uncoupled the SD50 on live track and slid it a couple of feet away from the other 3 lead engines. I pressed it's name on the remote's inactive screen and it said engine not on track. I grabbed the tablet and pressed refresh and it still did not see it.
So I removed the nearest engine and did the above again. The remote still didn't see it but the tablet did. So I tried to run it but it wouldn't. I pressed start and nothing. So I tried to adjust the volume, nothing. I pressed shut down and then start again. Out of the blue a few seconds later it made some shut down sounds and then again became in-responsive.
I then tried unplugging the WIU and using only the remote for the rest.
I repeatedly took another engine off ( not touching the SD50) until there was just one per TIU channel (2 total) and then the remote saw the engine. I pressed start and it started right up with sounds.
I don't understand this yet as this engine is usually good and stable. No changes have been made to the layout or wiring. I have run more engines than this repeatedly in the past. Maybe something is breaking down now. Wiring?, electronics? I'm not sure yet.
Joe,
Can you find and control the problem engine at all? If you cannot, try the follwoing:
This sounds to me more like an engine problem than a DCS problem.
Yes. It runs fine.
I repeatedly took another engine off ( not touching the SD50) until there was just one per TIU channel (2 total) and then the remote saw the engine. I pressed start and it started right up with sounds.
For some reason it can't be found once power is cycled and it's in a large lash-up? It was found after removing other engines. This is the third consecutive PS2 engine to act up in this session trying to cycle power. They run fine the first build?
I'm now trying just PS3 engines for a test.
All five PS3 engines ran fine and cycling power had no change.
Could it be that DCS has trouble with PS2 responding differently when mixed into a larger lash-up? I wanted to say app but the remote didn't see the engine either until others were removed.
I will keep testing. I swear it's a PS2 vs PS3 or some similar problem. Of course it may well be my equipment again. (always is)
I found something. It appears if the app times itself out, and then the refresh is done on my old phone I get just the engine numbers and no info. I would have guessed that was low signal? I also don't get any arrow next to the lash-up when I press edit.
Here's the kicker. I let my tablet time out as well. When I refreshed that it worked normally.
...... so anything?
Joe,
For some reason it can't be found once power is cycled
Did you check to see if the battery is low or dead?
the refresh is done on my old phone I get just the engine numbers and no info
Here's the kicker. I let my tablet time out as well. When I refreshed that it worked normally.
The problem could be the old phone and its version of Android, or just that the phone needs a reset.
Battery is full. I thought that about the first PS2 that acted up and it was charging on my bench even though it played shut down sounds. That was the #8 engine in the first lash-up test.
This one didn't act up at first. That's why I'm thinking it's a reply problem when the large lash-ups are mixed.
The all PS3 lash-up is working consistently. I made a video which I'll post later.
I have to believe there's a few things going on to confuse the issues. The phone loaded just numbers as shown above. It fixed itself and loaded back most of the engine info except for a few. One is a PS3 F40PH that happens to be in the middle of my consist. Just it's address is shown in the older phone's app?
However the new all PS3 lash-up works correctly repeatedly cycling power and the recalling the lash-up with the app.
So here's a test to show that my track and signal is good. These are all PS3 engines again X 6!
I have to believe that 6.1 doesn't like large mixed lash-ups of PS2 and PS3. Each time, it runs when built and then fails after power cycles. I don't think the engine is to blame.
I don't know how to reset the phone? It struggles to refresh when the app times out. If I put the phone in stand-by (tap the power button), it works.
So an app vs phone issue and the above lash-up issue.
The volume issue the other day seems to stem from my first release PS3 CSX presidential having a lower volume sound set. When the whole lash-up is turned down, you can't hear that engine.
Does the app have a FSV button?
Joe,
I have to believe that 6.1 doesn't like large mixed lash-ups of PS2 and PS3. Each time, it runs when built and then fails after power cycles. I don't think the engine is to blame.
My experience is limited to 3 engine lashups, with mixed PS2 and PS3 engines. I have no difficulties in this regard either with the remote or the app.
First it's too bad you're having problems. We've seen similar problems using low end Android devices. When using high end Samsung Galaxy devices all problems stop.
I have the Samsung Tab E that runs better. It did not come back with blank engine info after refreshing.
When I ran the large 7 to 8 engine lash-ups, even the remote stopped seeing the PS2 engines after power cycling. So I blamed DCS 6.1 as it seemed to skip the ps2 engine. Maybe it doesn't talk to it correctly about direction once the power is cycled?
Something was odd as it ran around fine for the first session. I have had no troubles with 2 or 3 engines. It seemed like the signal the way the system did not see the engine until several others were removed. I don't have anything conclusive yet to pin it on.
I think next I will build a large all PS2 lash-up and try cycling the power. If all members report, maybe that will start to narrow down the problem?
It seems like mid engine PS2s are getting lost in larger lash-ups for me only, after power cycles? That's why I tried the all PS3 and cycled the power.
J Daddy posted:Oh boy and I am just about to venture down this road with the addition of DCS to my layout. Maybe I should rethink this...
It's a bit more complicated with DCS 6.1 (in my experience), since it's more like:
Doing the same thing over and over again and GETTING different results! 
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