Do you want a really nice 700E?

Amazing, only $500.00 to start.  The one Sam posted is over $1600.00.  Not my "cup of tea" but it's fun to watch.

Charly..It has a reserve. Anyone want to guess what the reserve is? 

As we all know, the starting bid doesn't mean anything. This thing will go for big bucks.

Too fragile and expensive for me. I'll keep on running my Marx tinplate from the same era. At least I can afford them and don't have to worry about them breaking every time that I touch them.

Hello guys and gals...........

Is does the original lionel 700E Hudson have more "details and piping" than a sunset 3rd rail brass locomotives ? How are they compared ?

 

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

Hey EDDIE...Type in $15,000 and report back to us....

Eddie:  You can always bid $15,000, like Ron suggested, to see where the reserve is, then cancel your bid by saying you entered the wrong amount.

I've got one, I don't need 2 of them. I'll bet your 15 grand isn't far off.

 

    Sometimes I have found that you can e-mail the ebayer and ask him what his reserve is, & he or she will tell you.

 

BOB, You type in $15,000 let me know.

Possibly all you 700E people didn't see this, so I am bringing it back to the 1st page.

The Lionel will not have more detail than a comparable brass model from Sunset--but I'm not sure if Sunset has done a J1e.

Sunset made a J3a, but not a J1e. The K-Line die-cast model had more detail than the 700E to put it another way.

3rd Rail made a J1a and J1d. Probably infinitesimal differences between a J1d and J1e visually. Its not as detailed as either K-Line Hudson nor the Lionel J3a which IMHO compares more than favorably with the K-Line model. Not sure why the J3 gets so little attention.

 

Pete

I see that the price has risen somewhat. It's over $1800 now, and still hasn't met the reserve.

I wasn't aware 3rd Rail made those models too. I only knew of their J3a:

 

 

Definitely a noticeable difference from the J1e we are all familiar with, and presumably the best model of a "Hudson" in O-Gauge (Though for J1e's specifically that title goes to the K-Line).

N.Q.D.Y. Nicole..I beieve that the reserve is well above $5,000.

Thanks Eddie.  I'll not starting counting my pennies then.

  You know another way to get a 700 E is to buy a real nice 1-700 E from 1990, with or without the display case, or purchase a black Vision Line Hudson with all the 21st Century bells and whistles that Jon Z and his troops on the West Coast could devise.

 

Just finished a Collector's Gallery on this very subject and my opinion is the two descendents of the 1937 700 E will give most folks more joy of ownership for far less money than the original Pre-War model ever could.

 

The 2011 Vision Line Hudson not only captures the look and "feel" of the 1937 model as far as I am concerned, but its performance blows every other J 1 e available away.

 

Just a thought.

 

Ed Boyle

 

 

Just finished a Collector's Gallery on this very subject and my opinion is the two descendants of the 1937 700 E will give most folks more joy of ownership for far less money than the original Pre-War model ever could.

 

Blasphemy

Ed, You just don't understand, there is nothing like having the original one. Anything after the original one is just a copy, re-pro or whatever.

Oh, but I do understand.

 

However, after looking at more than several original 700 Es over the years, I found that my desire for something that looked good overcame my tendency for my very own authentic ruin.  Agreed, nothing can completely replace the original, but the mystique

 of original ownership just doesn't get it for me when I can own something attractive that is also an authentic Lionel engine, and a piece of modern Lionel history as well, in a price range I can actually afford.

 

There is a down side to being too much of an O gauge purist, even if I am a committed

collector.

 

Ed Boyle

For me its not no a matter of just as 'good' or maybe even 'better'. Cost factor aside, an original Lionel 700E Hudson is truly iconic, and has absolutely nothing to do with modern technical features, scale details or whatever. The 700E Hudson has always been a highly sought after model by collectors and will remain so for the foreseeable future. And no, I don't own a 700E due to cost!

 

 

Just my opinion of course..............

You know another way to get a 700 E is to buy a real nice 1-700 E from 1990

Ed, that was a fantastic engine.  I can still remember the first time I saw one back in 1990.  I actually agree with you. 

 

If you want to operate, buy the later version.  If you are a collector and want the "Holy Grail" buy the original.  I've seen both mint and crazed 700E's.  Buying a 700E is not an easy purchase and unless you are knowledgeable, you would be better off with the later versions.

 

I have always been more of an operator.  I have owned a couple of VERY nice original Hiawatha's, one in 1969 and the other in 1982.  As an operator, the newer versions are more desirable.

That eBay 700E looks very nice but I cannot understand how it does any operator any good. Its too expensive to run with regularity, a marginal performer, fragile, it has no smoke unit and unless you have the change-over wheels it must run on special T-Rail track. IMO, the 1937 Scale Hudson is a fascinating piece but I don't see anything on it that the 5340 1990 version doesn't have. The re-issue was made from the same dies, uses better materials, has rail sounds, smoke and the best part that it too is 100% American made. The 5344 is the ultimate showcase piece/wall hanger and that's all it is. The 5340 and the legacy Versions are pieces that will enhance your layout. I want my trains in the train room running on the layout not on top of the television set. 

Di I want a nice 700E? Simply put....I want 1 of everything. 2 of some things. 

Jeff, I can emphasize with you. I want one or two of everything as well, but reality finally intruded and I am a happier collector and operator now that I understand the limits reality imposes.

 

Of course, that doesn't preclude dreaming

 

Ed Boyle

 

.

Ed, does that mean I should change my goal of one of everything? Thanks. I was running out of room. Seriously, I recently changed to Pennsylvania related items and am starting to sell my hodgepodge off. Makes my train life much more enjoyable focusing on only certain things. Of course I will keep my favorite none PA road name items but just a limited few. 

I was once enamored with the idea of owning an original 700E but dropped it when it became clear these will all simply rot one day from all those metal issues.

 

For people who want the best detailed J1e in O-Gauge, the K-Line Hudson is the only way to go.

 

For people who want the best running J1e in O-Gauge, the Lionel Vision Hudson is unparalleled. The K-Line Hudson is also upgradable in several ways if you want to retain the superior detailing.

 

For people who want the most authentic recreation of the original 700E, the 1-700E is the only way to go (made in America and such).

 

My anticipation - Lionel re-releases the K-Line Hudson with Legacy features (as they did with the Berkshires). That will truly be the top J1e of O-Gauge.

I agree.  Dad had a 700E for years but never was able to run it since he didn't have any T-rail and didn't want to pay Madison Hardware's extortionate 1970s price.   I see very little difference in a mass-produced train made in New Jersey and a reissue made in Michigan 50-odd years later.  But then, I'm not one for the quasi-religious aspects of this hobby.

Mine runs fine on Atlas track although I do have a circle of T-Rail I set up when I run it under the tree during the holidays. I had a K-Line and the detail was amazing for the price. Unfortunately it went through three motors, none of which lasted more than a few hours. Finally demanded a refund. It for me was the ultimate wall piece. My 5340 gets the most run time and like it's pre war brethern runs very well.

I've been lucky, I have never been bitten by the 700E bug. It was always to elusive tobuy or just too expensive.  My bar was set much lower when I fell in love with the 1950 catalog set. The 733 with the irvington/Madison cars. An iconic set that for me and my Dad shared memories that will last a life time.

I am fortunate enough to own both an original 700E and the newer Vision Line. The 700E was my father's that I inherited when he passed over a decade ago. He did impart on me the importance of this engine many years ago when I was young so I do understand its historical significance to those in the hobby. However, I absolutely love running my Vision Line Hudson as the 700E stays tucked away nicely in its wooden case. It is still in very good shape but I do notice the signs of age that many have commented on regarding the durability of the metals used in its construction. That drives me even more to just keep it tucked away and continue running my Vision Line. I don't wish to detract from the collectors out there that love having such a highly regarded engine in their collection but when I compare the old to the new I've just got to go with the new. But, the venerable ol' 700E stays important to me because in the end it is still a family heirloom...and a connection to my dad which I will always cherish.  -Len

Well $2500 isn't the magic number. I did find it interesting that he will only ship via USPS because you can only insure USPS to $5000 dollars, yet he is demanding that the train be insured. Either he doesn't know this or he expects it to sell for under 5000

I think the 1990 version does far better in capturing the look and feel of the 1937 model. The 2011 version misses in a number of ways, although I do agree with you that performance will blow everything else away. But that performance came at the cost of detail that I certainly wouldn't be willing to pay. You could remove the boiler shell altogether and still have that same great performance--but at what cost?

 

As Nick notes, however, nothing--not even the 2011 Vision Line Hudson--can touch the K-Line model in terms of total detail accuracy and looks, despite the protestations to the contrary by Lionel fans.

I agree.  I think most objective Lionel fans - and I count myself as one -- will admit the K-Line is more detailed/accurate in its rendering of many of the small parts of the Hudson.  In my case, though, those are not that important to me, compared to the V Hudsons superiority in sound and particularly its smoothness at low speeds.

 

And the swinging bell!  Call it a gimmick it you will, but it is my favorite gimmick.

Steve,

 

I believe you are correct about the 1-700 E in the sense that it has a similar motor and running gear to the original and does not have have traction enhancement like Magnetraction, so it "feels" more like the 1937 original. 

 

The 1-700 E also uses more of the original tooling than the 2011 Vision Line Hudson.  However, the boiler and other parts also used new tooling on the 1990 1-700E because of the wear on the Pre-War tooling. Yes, the 1-700 E is "closer" to the 700 E

than the Vision Line Hudson, but the Vision Line Hudson is far and away more fun to run and it still looks just great.

 

In terms of detail and overall looks, I can live with the Vision Line Hudson and I am delighted with its level of performance, which is a tough admission to make for a collector.

 

Ed Boyle

I think that's great, Ed, and that performance is definitely a reason to buy. And you're spot-on in your assessment of why I believe the 1-700E to be "closer" to the original 1937 version.

 

However, for me, the detail of the model is what sells. I want to be able to just study and stare at the plethora of piping and rivets and such--get lost in the visual aspect of the machine, even when it isn't running. While they did add some new great detail to the model, the V-Line Hudson had some pretty significant details altered, and not for the better in my book, so it loses in the visual appeal department for me.

The 1990 1-700E, built under the direct supervision of Richard Kughn, is a beautiful made-in-the-USA Lionel RE-ISSUE (NOT replica!) of the 1937 model with the added bonus of smoke and early RailSounds.

 

I also have the Legacy VL Hudson, and it is unbeatable in its features and operation! 

 

I DO agree with Steve that the K-Line scale Hudson is more faithful in details than either the 1-700E or the VL Hudson. 

Exactly.  As the 1964 773 is a re-issue of the 1950 773.  Although in the case of the 773, the later version is inferior in many respects.

I agree on the K- Line detail, but how do you all overlook that hideous unwrapped boiler beneath the running boards?  Fixing that is an all day project.

"It's always something...."

Definitely a major peeve of mine. But taken as a whole, the K-Line is still better detailed than the Lionels--and even better detailed than some brass engines, as noted above.

Definitely a major peeve of mine. But taken as a whole, the K-Line is still better detailed than the Lionels--and even better detailed than some brass engines,<<

 

 

Because it was hand built & produced in America the old fashoned way in the modern era, a feat in itself using original and very outdated processes, dies and some original tooling, for all those reasons above the engine itself, Id rather have the unique mint 1-700e on a display shelf then any other Hudson including a rotted original or the half baked chinese made VL model. 

Given I'm a big steam fan but not fixated on Hudsons, I'd rather enjoy the complexity and looks of any one of the JLC's in a display case then a Hudson.

Especially the Challenger and Allegheny.

Just my opinion...

Joe 

SORRY, but there is NOTHING "half-baked" about the VL Hudson! 

 

You might have a different opinion if you have ever operated one: it is a SUPERB performer, and is not half-bad looking at that! 

With apologies to Eddie G who started this thread it should be noted the K-Line Hudson while having some fine detail is also the most underpowered of all the versions posted here. Mine nearly overheated pulling 5 18" K-Line heavyweights. As posted above they can burn up motors with relatively modest loads. OTOH the newer Lionel Hudsons including both J3a's and Vision Hudson don't break a sweat with a dozen cars.

All depends what you want to do with an engine. Admire it on the shelf or use it to pull prototypical length trains.

 

Pete

>>>SORRY, but there is NOTHING "half-baked" about the VL Hudson! 

 

You might have a different opinion if you have ever operated one: it is a SUPERB performer, and is not half-bad looking at that<<<<

 

I own a number of Legacy engines, love every one so I'm sure it is..

I was refering to detail.. The only place the VL Hudson hits a home run is on a layout, period.

But.. as a $1600,00 model to appreaciate in a display case???? 

Sorry... In every way the VL Hudson just ain't got the provenance. The right stuff to make it even to the bottom shelf..

The ugliness begins with its omitted builders plate and coupler chain and ends with a horrible looking cracked egg boiler underside exposing nearly half its ugly electronic innards..

Joe

 

The detail certainly is. No one is arguing about the performance.

The tender of Dad's 700E warped and later crumbled like a saltine cracker.  And this was in the late-1970s.  I wonder if the tenders had more problems.  It certainly seemed so to me, given the many replacement shells floating around.

Here's a pic of the K-Line model for your viewing pleasure!

I'm really surprised that the reserve was only $5,000. It's up to $5,100. Still a bargain.

Well, it's at 5.2K and there is still 21 hrs to go on the bidding. Normally the finale price dose not show up until the last couple of hours. It will be fun to watch what it goes for in the end.

Ed, When will your article in the Collector's Gallery run in OGR magazine?  I sure want to get a copy.

Dick,

 

The Hudson article is scheduled for Run 261, the January 2013 issue.  Allan is still recovering from the fact that I turned it in early We are covering some new ground in this story, especially about the significance of the original 700 E for the rest of the Lionel line.

 

We are also thinking of offering copies of the title photo of the the 1-700 E and the VL 700 E Collector's Gallery article because it turned out so well. It will either be a contest or a drawing.  Figure first prize will be a nice framed version like I already have on my wall, but we haven't settled on details yet.

 

If you have any ideas about how we can do this, I would like to hear about them.

 

Ed Boyle

 

Hey, why just buy an individual issue of OGR?  A subscription is cheaper and I do seven columns a year! Lots of entertainment and good information for the money.

That's a well worn myth. They are scale size.

 

As for the J3a you can get shorter drawbars.

 

Pete

Not whining...just providing input. I never owned a KLine Hudson. My understanding is the Lionel J-3 uses the infra red so a shorter drawbar would not work. And about that KLine motor.......

Went for $5200, looks like a decent price, would be interested in seeing what kind of price similar engines have gone for recently. I seem to remember seeing one at York last year being offered for $7000, but don't know if it was this same model or another version

 

Think Eddie's $15,000 price is just a pipe-dream from previous times when Postwar was far more interesting to train folks than it is now.

$5200. It may be a bit battered at today's prices, but it is nice to know the legend of the 700 E still lives on in one hobbyist's pocketbook.

 

Ed Boyle

The drawbar comes with the IR receiver.

 

This:

 

 

Gets replaced with this:

 

 

Pete

There has been a 700E in the Blue or Silver Hall at York since my first York back in the fall of '03.  Pretty certain it's the same one b/c the price is in that $7k range.

 

 

I like the 700.  I parked the K-Line next to a converted 763, and found the K-Line visibly smaller.  That, I guess, makes the Lionel too large, which is OK by me, because my hobby is 17/64 scale.

 

I will never buy another steam model wiih open or U shaped boiler belly.

 

I will be buying a copy of OGR for Ed's article.  I doubt it is cheaper to buy a year's subscription than it is to buy a copy at the news stand price, but if it is, I will subscribe.

 

Every now and then, I see some Hi Rail article that catches my fancy, and I subscribe.  The next five issues assure me that OGR does not have me in mind as a target audience.

I guess it all depends on your standard. I parked my K-Line Hudson next to the Vision 700E and it was within 1/16" in all dimensions, they were identical in length and width. If you have prints with dimensions then we would all know for sure.

 

Pete

 

We have both the K-Line Hudson and the first Samhongsa built MTH Premiere Hudson. They are virtually identical in size and very close to the 700E from what I remember.

Would assume that Mike's engineering dept did their homework in researching their first scale Hudson with Lionel's 700E still fresh in everyone's mind!