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I hesitated before posting this new topic, but then plunged ahead because it occurred to me that it may turn out to be stunningly positive for OGR Magazine, model train manufacturers, our worldwide On-Line Forum community, and the hobby of model railroading in general.

The idea for this topic was inspired by the moving reply today by Frank (Moonson) about the enthusiasm he and his wife had for model railroading under the thread entitled: "Train Layout: No Dead Time," and the many positive posts over the years by most, if not all, of us about how family-oriented our hobby is. 

Although I doubt if there is empirical or statistical data to support the hypothesis that model railroaders have fewer divorces, I respectfully submit (lawyer's words LOL) that there is substantial anectodal data to support this hypothesis.

We can begin to build this considerable anectodal data with our contributions to this thread.

I will start us off by stating that, after practicing Domestic  Relations  Law in NY for 42 years, my model railroading activities have helped me stay married to the same woman now for 41 years.

One may ask: why is that?

First, our hobby is definitely family oriented. In my case, my parents loved Lionel trains, as did several of my other close relatives who, unlike me, had large layouts (my child hood layouts never extended beyond the classic 4 feet by 8 feet plywood board). Then, when my wife and I had young children in our 30s, the Lionel trains were resurrected, and then, as an adult male making money in a profession, the layout grew way beyond the limits of that original plywood board, and the train collection multiplied. Most importantly, the trains and layout gave me, and my son and daughter, a powerful common interest and, Thank God, my wife appreciated that. 

As I reflect on this (and I confess I'm really getting excited about this idea being a divorce lawyer), model trains and a layout can be like very strong glue that keeps the family together.

Speaking about my wife, Shawn, who is tolerant but not involved, with my layout (except when my 7 year old grandaughter plays with the farm animals and figures on my layout or gives her Shopkins rides in a gondola), I once overheard her say the following: "When Arnold is downstairs with his trains, at least I know he is at home and not involved with some other woman."

I think my wife is very wise.

And, I bet that many of you have spouses who have said something similar.

And, I bet many of you have things to say that support the hypothesis that model railroading means fewer divorces. I would love to hear your comments about this topic.

Some of you may feel differently, and I would love to hear your opinions too. A couple of possible negatives with model raiilroading for a marriage come to mind. One is that spending money recklessly on trains could be disastrous for a marriage. After all, we must use our common sense and remember WE CAN'T EAT TRAINS! LOL. Another negative could be to build our layout like the Richard Dreyfus character built the mountain in his house in the movie Close Encounters of a Third Kind! LOL! No, we must not be that obsessed when we build our layouts if we want to have happy marriages.

I respectfully submit that we stay within a reasonable budget with our train collections, make our layouts beautiful and charming adornments to our homes, and give our lovely wives all the attention they crave. 

I guess I'm a lucky model railroader because my wife likes some time alone when she can have her own space so she can read a book, do a crossword puzzle, go to her acting class (do her hobby), etc. Arnold

 

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari
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Arnold,

I'm inclined to agree with your hypothesis. My wife and I have different interests but each of us respects the other's and we each spend our spare change as we please, but not to excess. Of course, our greatest interests are our children and grandchildren, all of whom have enjoyed the model railroads in the basement. Nonetheless, a model railroad on the main floor might be where the line gets drawn - but I'm savvy enough not to even contemplate it... And, like your wife, mine knows exactly where I am and what I'm up to when I stumble down the stairs into the basement.

MELGAR

Well, I have heard it said that model rr wives do know where their husbands are.

I was told that John Armstrong had a slide he put up at some of his clinics.     I never saw it, but it is an urban legend that it was done.     It was a line graph with the horizontal axis the size of the layout (or collection) and the vertical axis the probability of divorce.     The line was a parabolic curve climbing higher geomentrically as it moved along the horizontal axis.

It is said to have brought lots of chuckles.

Strummer posted:

 A lot of other sites have a forum set aside for this kind of discussion.

I for one would much prefer to see topics being about trains, not about these "big picture" type of threads.

Couldn't (so many of) these types of threads be put into the "miscellaneous" forum?

Just asking...

Mark in Oregon

 

Interesting thought, Mark. I just looked and saw no "Miscellaneous" Forum. 

You may want to put your last reply under "Forum Suggestion Box," which is the last Forum in the directory.

Just a suggestion, Arnold 

 

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari
Strummer posted:

 A lot of other sites have a forum set aside for this kind of discussion.

I for one would much prefer to see topics being about trains, not about these "big picture" type of threads.

Couldn't (so many of) these types of threads be put into the "miscellaneous" forum?

Just asking...

Mark in Oregon

 

Couldn't you just not read the threads who's title doesn't interest you?  It's so simple even I can do it.  

If the mods don't like it they'll move it or lock it.

Back to the topic at hand.  It's an interesting hypothesis but I feel it's more about the people in the marriage than the hobby.   The hobby could be any hobby.  Perhaps the question is how many couples are both in the hobby and how many of their relationships survived the test of time.

-Greg

I would submit, counselor, there is no direct correlation between model railroading and divorce. 

  • Most wives of adult men playing with trains need not worry about their husbands attracting other women, the very reason most teen boys put away their childhood trains or wind up as bachelors; a wife's lack of  concern as long as her husband is in the attic, basement or garage is just an expression of understanding most people need some space in healthy relationships. 
  • Financial stress can lead to divorce, but reckless spending on trains would be but a symptom of poor judgment that would manifest in other affairs. 
  • Likewise emotional neglect in a marriage would occur whether a husband allowed vocation or avocation to take priority over his wife; if care for her feelings and well-being does not come first, nothing else matters. 

 Many years ago, I clipped and saved one of the late Dr. Billy Graham's newspaper advice columns that seemed to capture better than I could articulate a formula for marital success.  Rather than risk copyright infringement by attaching an image of that column, let me just say he mentioned the things that are important are:

  • a commitment that doesn't fade regardless of circumstances.
  • consideration in putting the needs of the other above your own desires (and he mentions selfishness as the greatest enemy of lasting love).
  • communication so each knows what is important to the other, including the little things.
  • a shared system of values and beliefs.

 Model railroading is incidental if these important aspects of a relationship are cultivated and nurtured.

What, me worry?

Last edited by Alfred E Neuman

I am perfectly fine with whatever the moderators decide to do.

My purposes, whenever I post at topic, is to Promote Our Hobby Big Time, and/or entertain, and/or express my enthusiasm for our hobby, and/or say something I think is interesting and I think others will find interesting.

I love this Forum and believe the moderators have done an excellent job regulating it.

I also happen to love it when others respectfully express a different point of view than mine, which IMO is what Mark and a couple of others have done so far. Arnold 

Alfred E Neuman posted:

I would submit, counselor, there is no direct correlation between model railroading and divorce. 

  • Most wives of adult men playing with trains need not worry about their husbands attracting other women, the very reason most teen boys put away their childhood trains or wind up as bachelors; a wife's lack of  concern as long as her husband is in the attic, basement or garage is just an expression of understanding most people need some space in healthy relationships. 
  • Financial stress can lead to divorce, but reckless spending on trains would be but a symptom of poor judgment that would manifest in other affairs. 
  • Likewise emotional neglect in a marriage would occur whether a husband allowed vocation or avocation to take priority over his wife; if care for her feelings and well-being does not come first, nothing else matters. 

 Many years ago, I clipped and saved one of the late Dr. Billy Graham's newspaper advice columns that seemed to capture better than I could articulate a formula for marital success.  Rather than risk copyright infringement by attaching an image of that column, let me just say he mentioned the things that are important are:

  • a commitment that doesn't fade regardless of circumstances.
  • consideration in putting the needs of the other above your own desires (and he mentions selfishness as the greatest enemy of lasting love).
  • communication so each knows what is important to the other, including the little things.
  • a shared system of values and beliefs.

 Model railroading is incidental if these important aspects of a relationship are cultivated and nurtured.

What, me worry?

Awesome reply, Mr. Neuman! 

I wonder though: Is Alfred E. Neuman your real name? Wasn't that name connected to Mad Magazine? LOL, Arnold

MELGAR posted:

Arnold,

As a domestic relations attorney, can you tell me if the reason that both parties may agree to stay together is because the trains and layouts cost less than the divorce?

MELGAR

In most instances, a  lot less than a hotly contested divorce that goes to trial, but usually not less than a mediated divorce or a collaborative divorce. Arnold

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari

Arnold, I hate to say it, but unfortunately, many men have been divorced by their wives claiming' their husbands paid more attention to their trains, then them. 

On another forum, there are several members that now live alone and devote all their free time to the hobby.  They claim to be much happier and enjoying life more than ever'... So, not all wives love the fact of knowing their husband is in the basement.  It seems to me, that the intelligent ones don't mind sharing their husbands with trains, rather than other nefarious items...

My Wife and I have been together for about forty  years as well and I can't say my hobby helped  keep us together but it keeps me home at night.

Of course as all you toy train guys know all to well when all the young ladies hear about our ultra cool hobby they all come around like flies to an ice-cream cone. They just can't wait to get there hands on our controls.

Fortunately for my domestic life when  I have to chose to between taking a lady out or buying a new engine they lose every time.

There is no lady that could ever take me away from the beauty I have at home who pushes  me to clean up that  messy platform in the basement.   Who could ask for more?

Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

Arnold, I hate to say it, but unfortunately, many men have been divorced by their wives claiming' their husbands paid more attention to their trains, then them. 

On another forum, there are several members that now live alone and devote all their free time to the hobby.  They claim to be much happier and enjoying life more than ever'... So, not all wives love the fact of knowing their husband is in the basement.  It seems to me, that the intelligent ones don't mind sharing their husbands with trains, rather than other nefarious items...

Quarter Gauger 48, it saddens me  to read your above reply because I'm sure it's true and that others have suffered the breakdown of their marriages as you describe.

If the divorced men are now happy, that's a good thing.

Part of my motivation in starting this topic is to emphasize the family oriented aspect of our hobby, where adults and children can do it together and wholeheartedly enjoy it, at different levels, and bond and have common interest. Promoting family this way often, but not always, promotes good marriages, IMO.

I also agree that such bonding and common interest can happen with other things like sports and music. Indeed, that happened and still happens for me and my son when we play golf together, and happened and still happens for me and my daughter when she sings at Open Mics the songs I have written (this is a thrilling experience for me) while I play guitar to accompanying her.

For me, it just so happens that my 1st passionate interest with both of my children when they were toddlers was Lionel trains. I have tremendous gratitude to Lionel and our hobby for that and so does my wife. The trains gave me a foundation to have other passionate common interests with both children, like the golf and music. And, by the way, nothing was ever forced in the slightest. I simply introduced these activities to the kids, and they happen to like them when they were little, so we did them together. I am perfectly fine with their minimal interest today in the trains. Their only current interest as 30 somethings in the trains is that they both think it's hilarious that I still do the trains. LOL. What is even funnier is that I think they are correct! LMAO!

I also agree that the wives who see the benefits of their husbands engaging in a hobby at home are very wise.

Other benefits of our hobby now come to mind which, if more commonly known, would also promote marriages, IMO.

For instance, my wife and I know that for very young children to play with electric trains with adult supervision is very stimulating for them, and very likely promotes the healthy development of their brains. I recall other Forum members during the past 2 years saying similar things on other threads. 

I love to see a 2 year old with his/her hands on the throttles of a ZW. Look at their faces when they do that, and see them revel in the feelings of control and power it gives them. I believe every single brain cell of those toddlers is 100% engaged when they are doing  that, and that is very good for their mental development. That experience and those benefits continue today when our young children and grandchildren run LC and LC+ trains using the remote units, IMO.

My son, now 30 years old, was that 2 year old with both hands on the ZW throttles. Later on, his High School Physics teacher told my wife at a parent-teacher conference: "your son is awesome at Physics!" And, he graduated #2 in his class in Mechanical Engineering at SUNY Binghamton Engineering School. Hey, I'm just a proud dad, who believes Lionel trains starting at a very early age, which I also had, contributed to his mental development.

Incidentally, my son was beating me in chess at the age of 6, and was bored with running trains at the age of 10. That is because, unlike me, he was much more interested in opening up the trains to see how the various mechanisms of the 022 switch tracks, accessories and locomotives worked. This, in turn, got him interested in reading about the history of Lionel and its employees who invented these mechanisms, and also reading about other inventors like Tesla, at an early age.

Thanks to all of you who have read this reply. I am very interested in whatever you think about this subject regardless of whether it's positive or negative. I believe this Forum is a place where we can sincerely and respectfully share our views and possibly learn from each other. I, for one, have already learned a lot from some of your above replies. I thank you for that. Arnold

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari

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