“Don’t use electrical tape to hold wires together like I do”

Well, if electrical tape is holding stuff together, that's the first thing I wouldn't let happen to me!

If your using tape to hold wires together, that is your first mistake. Use a solid length of wire or solder it together. Do it right the first time to avoid problems like you encountered.

Dave

Electrical tape is not designed to hold wires together! They should be soldered, screwed to a terminal strip or fastened some other way - ANY other way other than electrical tape!

at least use wire nuts to join the wires.

The title of this post should be “Don’t use electrical tape to hold wires together like I do”

WOW Seaboard, my guess is that you won't be doing that again. Electrical tape has one purpose - TO INSULATE.  If you must splice two wire together and you don't feel comfortable soldering, use this splice then you can insulate it with electrical tape such as Scotch 33.

Wirenuts, terminal strips, and a soldering iron are a model railroader’s best friends...

Rich Melvin posted:

Electrical tape is not designed to hold wires together! They should be soldered, screwed to a terminal strip or fastened some other way - ANY other way other than electrical tape!

Hey it worked just fine for the past 9 years.Besides I am not that good when it comes to soldering.

wild mary posted:

WOW Seaboard, my guess is that you won't be doing that again. Electrical tape has one purpose - TO INSULATE.  If you must splice two wire together and you don't feel comfortable soldering, use this splice then you can insulate it with electrical tape such as Scotch 33.

 

Now the diagrams you have here.Is how I had the wires together.I then had tape around them.

NS6770Fan posted:

Wirenuts, terminal strips, and a soldering iron are a model railroader’s best friends...

Believe me I am taking notes.

NYC Z-MAN posted:

The title of this post should be “Don’t use electrical tape to hold wires together like I do”

O.K. point taken.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, if electrical tape is holding stuff together, that's the first thing I wouldn't let happen to me!

Hey it held together for a very long time.And I thought that was what electrical tape was for.After all it is called electrical tape.

david1 posted:

If your using tape to hold wires together, that is your first mistake. Use a solid length of wire or solder it together. Do it right the first time to avoid problems like you encountered.

Dave

What I did was twine the wires together.Then put the tape around them.I am thinking about clamps.

seaboardm2 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, if electrical tape is holding stuff together, that's the first thing I wouldn't let happen to me!

Hey it held together for a very long time.And I thought that was what electrical tape was for.After all it is called electrical tape.

What do you use duct tape for ?

NYC Z-MAN posted:

The title of this post should be “Don’t use electrical tape to hold wires together like I do”

I’m sure a lot of us have opened shells to see 2 or 3 PCB’s sandwiched and taped together.  Remove the tape and all the residue from the adhesive left on the board.  I don’t know if it is electrically conductive.  If yes, I could see possibility of carrying voltage across the solder traces.  If not conductive, great.  But the point is that the holding ability of the tape adhesive degrades over time and has the consistency of sticky glue or maple syrup.  I use wire ties if I can.  Solder or wire nut connections.  Tape is the last thing I use.

seaboardm2 posted:

wild mary posted:

WOW Seaboard, my guess is that you won't be doing that again. Electrical tape has one purpose - TO INSULATE.  If you must splice two wire together and you don't feel comfortable soldering, use this splice then you can insulate it with electrical tape such as Scotch 33.

 

Now the diagrams you have here.Is how I had the wires together.I then had tape around them.

When you got a splice like this put shrink-wrap around it and apply heat to it. (A hair dryer will do for a heat gun...). Much, much better than tape!

Duct tape is for HVAC ducts.

Wire wrapping as shown above is a prelude to  soldering.

If you do not feel you can solder go check out some model RR soldering You Tubes.  Consider searching OGR archives.

I have used wire nuts for many years, including in RVs. I have never had a wire nut connection fail, even with the vibration and pounding of highway use. Simple, cheap, quick.

Lew

Lately I have become a fan of heat shrink tubing for insulating wires vs electrical tape as I have found over time electrical tape looses its sticky ness and fails to hold. I still solder wires together, but before I solder the wires together I slip on a section of heat shrink tubing to one of the ends of wire, twist them together, solder the twisted joint and then slip the tubing over the joint and finally apply heat gently and evenly over the tubing to make a nice secure neat connection.

3M "suitcase" connectors are an easy, convenient and solderless way to securely join two wire ends. These do not require stripping.

Great suggestions from all the folks here. I have used almost all of these methods at one time or another. I have even twisted wires together and taped them. I have also used the telecom splice that Wild Mary posted. For a more permanent setup and even most temporary ones, I have an assortment of wire nuts and telco crush connectors. I save solder for certain track connections and for creating electronic controls like relays.

George

I really recommend you invest in a quality soldering iron and learn to use it.  You'll save yourself countless hours of annoyance.

I use the Hakko FX-888D

I have used wire nuts on the entire layout....been working for a decade now.  I can make quick changes if needed, add feeds, etc.  Works like a charm!

Tom Tee posted:

Duct tape is for HVAC ducts.

I thought similar to electrical tape I had heard that "duct" tape is really mislabeled in terms of appropriate use.

Aren't we supposed to use metal foil tape for ducts, as opposed to "duct" tape?

Or is that urban legend?  The ducts in my basement all used foil tape (by the builders - around 12 years ago).

-Dave

Wago lever nuts are great too, and reuseable.

Rich Melvin posted:

Electrical tape is not designed to hold wires together! They should be soldered, screwed to a terminal strip or fastened some other way - ANY other way other than electrical tape!

Really any kind of mechanical connection will do. Twisting, nutting, soldering are all good. I happen to like crimp on butt splices and other crimp connectors.

The only thing electrical tape is good for is insulation of bare wires. I also use ten colors of electrical tape for marking, according to the resistor color code, color symbol for number.

Dave45681 posted:

Tom Tee posted:

Duct tape is for HVAC ducts.

I thought similar to electrical tape I had heard that "duct" tape is really mislabeled in terms of appropriate use.

Aren't we supposed to use metal foil tape for ducts, as opposed to "duct" tape?

Or is that urban legend?  The ducts in my basement all used foil tape (by the builders - around 12 years ago).

-Dave

I don't believe their was foil tape back in the day. So they used duct tape. Foil tape is better to use now that you have that choice. There are even better products out now too. The old duct tape would fall apart early if in a hot zone like an attic.

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

I have used wire nuts on the entire layout....been working for a decade now.  I can make quick changes if needed, add feeds, etc.  Works like a charm!

I prefer wire nuts if the joint needs to be serviceable. I have seen wire nut joints fail. I use pliers to twist the solid copper wires together first, then add the wire nut just to hold that joint.

I don't like crimp where if not done just right, the wires can arc or not carry higher amp loads. When I use crimp on stranded wires, I usually solder them once every things completed. I've had wires slip out of crimp joints too many times. Probably better tools out there to do that job. I just don't have them.

I can't apply the right amount of pressure to squeeze them fully closed I guess?

 I also don't use the stab in ports on fixtures where possible. I prefer using wire nuts and sending a single wire to the outlet or switch's screw terminal.

Engineer-Joe posted:

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

I have used wire nuts on the entire layout....been working for a decade now.  I can make quick changes if needed, add feeds, etc.  Works like a charm!

I prefer wire nuts if the joint needs to be serviceable. I have seen wire nut joints fail. I use pliers to twist the solid copper wires together first, then add the wire nut just to hold that joint.

I don't like crimp where if not done just right, the wires can arc or not carry higher amp loads. When I use crimp on stranded wires, I usually solder them once every things completed. I've had wires slip out of crimp joints too many times. Probably better tools out there to do that job. I just don't have them.

I can't apply the right amount of pressure to squeeze them fully closed I guess?

 I also don't use the stab in ports on fixtures where possible. I prefer using wire nuts and sending a single wire to the outlet or switch's screw terminal.

Joe...if one uses a slightly smaller sized wire nut than recommended for a particular size wire, and then twist very tightly, there should never be a problem.  Keep in mind, I am talking about for inside layouts.  An outside situation with the wild swings in temperature is a different situation....even so....we have a very extensive outdoor landscape lighting system and all of the connections are mechanical....been in for 15 years now and no problems....(fingers crossed)

Heat shrink or liquid tape after solder, wire nuts for testing. However electrical tape is almost useless outside the bedroom.          j

Another option, FWIW, I solder where possible, if not, crimp using this tool.  No failures.

Greywoulf posted:

seaboardm2 posted:

wild mary posted:

WOW Seaboard, my guess is that you won't be doing that again. Electrical tape has one purpose - TO INSULATE.  If you must splice two wire together and you don't feel comfortable soldering, use this splice then you can insulate it with electrical tape such as Scotch 33.

 

Now the diagrams you have here.Is how I had the wires together.I then had tape around them.

When you got a splice like this put shrink-wrap around it and apply heat to it. (A hair dryer will do for a heat gun...). Much, much better than tape!

I might give that a shot.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I really recommend you invest in a quality soldering iron and learn to use it.  You'll save yourself countless hours of annoyance.

I use the Hakko FX-888D

Well I have to think about it.I am kind of not sure about soldering.See I have tried that once and it did not turn out well.I do not know maybe I did not get the right soldering iron.

Well at least I know I came to the right place.Lots of good ideas here.So I like to thank every body for the helpful ideas.

this control panel operated reliably for more than a decade ...

there is a single mounted relay i had to use to control power for a transition track and with solder tabs they were the only soldered connections  i needed to make.  all the rest of the connections are crimp and screw connections.

cheers...gary

TedW posted:

Another option, FWIW, I solder where possible, if not, crimp using this tool.  No failures.

get one of these ratchet crimpers...!

...mine is about 30 years old.

overlandflyer posted:

TedW posted:

Another option, FWIW, I solder where possible, if not, crimp using this tool.  No failures.

get one of these ratchet crimpers...!

...mine is about 30 years old.

Hmmm, If you look in the upper left corner of the photo...   It is ratcheting, and the jaws are interchangeable for different wire sizes if you choose.

^^^  i wasn't questioning your tool if that's how it sounded... mine is just another similar type.

*sigh*... good timing on the page break.... lol

I use wire nuts a lot, but not always.  It all depends upon type of connection.  My soldering connections all get heat shrink, and some mechanical twist connections also.  With wire nuts, a practice from being in heavy construction, after the wire nut is secure, I wrap with Scotch electrical tape.  This ensures even with a tug or pull on the line in question, the wire nut and connection stays secure.

Jesse   TCA

There are many options today but the pictured connection is one of several valid wire to wire splice approaches including side by side and T splices.  The wires must be clean (electrical), wound as shown (mechanical).  A covering provides insulation, protection from the environment, and possibly additional mechanical support.  If the splice is pulled or subject to repetitive motion (flexed) it could loosen.  This would lead to loss of contact and oxidation.

At low voltage almost any tape would do for insulation.  The problem is most tapes do not age well because the adhesive drys out or oozes or the tape itself deteriorates.  Also, a failing splice on a high current line would get hot and affect the tape.

Two rules:

If you are going to use heat shrink or spaghetti, be sure to put the piece on the wire BEFORE you make the splice.

Never intentionally use Fahnestock clips for any purpose.

penn station posted:

...  If the splice is pulled or subject to repetitive motion (flexed) it could loosen. ...

this reminded me of another part of a wire splice that is often overlooked as a source of failure.  when removing insulation it is VERY important that the wire not be "nicked".  even a slight bite into the wire can result in a weak spot and will break if the splice is exposed to any motion, which luckily in most instances is not the case.

add to this some heat shrink insulation... typically just strong enough to support a broken connection... and you are looking at one tough electrical problem to find.

when i cannot find an accurate size wire stripper or NO-NIK cutters on smaller than 28 gauge, i will try to just nick the insulation enough to pull it off rather than to risk touching the conductor with a sharp edge.

I think there is a bit of traveling different tracks in connecting wires going on in this discussion.  GRJ does a lot of electronic work inside locos and his Hakko iron is hard to beat with dial up heat settings and then heat shrink for insulation. What works in layout wiring is often unsuitable inside a locomotive. I have used wire nuts, solder and crimp joints on layouts and find all more than adequate if matched to the situation. I am inclined to use a soldering gun on layout wiring but seldom use a gun when working on a locomotive especially if electronics are in it.  Wire nuts and crimp connectors work fine as a temporary connection in locos for testing purposes but once I verify all is well in my wiring scheme I want solder and heat shrink. Most of the time it makes a more compact connection and space is often more precious inside a locomotive than on a layout. I have no experience in outdoor model railroads but would guess that they require many of the techniques and strategies involved in marine wiring.  I had sailboats for years and making air/water tight connections was imperative.  I kept a pair of torches on board with soldering adapters as well as liquid tape and heat shrink. I also kept small copper swaging sleves that could be used for electrical work with my swaging tool (looks like a bolt cutter). Which I kept on board mainly for repairs to the standing rig which holds the mast up.  To make a weather proof swaged electrical connection I would paint liquid tape on the joint and slip heat shrink over it. Shrink it from the center outward before the liquid tape cures and excess would ooze out the ends. The resulting splice would be both air and water proof.         j

I don't usually solder inside an engine. Maybe if I have to make a wire longer for some reason and it easier to extend it with solder and heat shrink. But in general, it's too difficult to redo if you have to replace something and get the wires out of the way. I use the same tiny wire nuts that Lionel uses. I don't wrap anything with Scotch electrical tape because it turns gummy and gooey after awhile and it's not necessary if you twist the wire nut on properly. I use the tiny wire ties to neaten up the wires and prevent pinching when you put the shell back.

I solder and heatshrink things, they don't come apart after that.  I hate the wire nuts as they are too often found in the bottom of the locomotive when I remove the shell!