Fairbanks Morse Trainmaster - Santa Fe Models?

Sante Fe had exactly zero Train Masters.

Rusty

No, Santa Fe did not have any Trainmaster locomotives on their roster.  So the MTH and Lionel versions are "fantasy" paint schemes.

Have you checked on www.wikipedia.com to see if the Santa Fe bought that model from Fairbanks Morse? Type in railroads or Fairbanks Morse, as FM made the units.

Far as I know the FM Trainmaster was mainly an eastcoast engine, but I am not 100% positive on that. I know eastcoast railroads had many of the FM Trainmasters, CNJ and Reading Lines.

Lee Fritz

Fantasy or not - it ought to look good in Warbonnett, right?

Lee,

Doesn't everything?

Joe

Why check Wikipedia?

The answer was already given.

And the answer is zero.

Southern Pacific was the only western U.S. railroad to roster Train Masters.

Rusty

Rusty is 100% correct regarding the Southern Pacific being the only western railroad to roster them. 

Originally they bought them for use on freight hauls between El Paso and Los Angeles, but ultimately they found they were ill-suited for the dry, sandy, high winds encountered along that route.  They relocated them to the Bay Area where they had the advantage of a labor pool that specialized in opposed-piston engine maintenance and repair, and they tried them out in commuter train service between San Francisco and San Jose, which they did very well due to their ability to accelerate quickly and could haul more cars behind them than their passenger Geeps, which was desirable to keep up with rush-hour service and stay on schedule.

Occasionally they also did freight duty while in the Bay Area too.  Ultimately, when F-M left the locomotive manufacturing business, the SP's Trainmasters' days were numbered, and SP's acquisition of SDP45s to replace them was the final nail in the coffin.  All their F-Ms were retired by May 1975, and all were subsequently scrapped.

It's interesting to note that although the SDP45s were plenty powerful, Southern Pacific had to do some extensive electrical modifications to them in order for them to match the quick acceleration of the Trainmasters.

I hate to harp on an issue, but the reason I say to check with wikipedia is because many people still feel that what is made by a model train company is really made in the real world.

I saw the other post on Real Trains and that is why I am coming back with this reply. I was going to let things be, but people need to be set straight at times. The post is; Santa Fe Trainmaster H24-66?

Lee Fritz

Just my opinion, but I don't put a lot of stock in Wikipedia when it comes to railroad related information. I've been in the railroad motive power business all my life, and if Wikipedia indicates that the sun rises in the east, and sets in the west,,,,I'll double check that this evening!

Santa Fe Train Masters...C&NW T.M.s.....Chessie System Train Masters????? Makes you wonder what these people are on!  FM would have loved to get all that additional business, but it wasn't gonna happen.  Reason?  Too high a cost per horsepower/ high engine operating expense in the R.R. application/ most important...FM corporate instability from 1955 onward.  In the '50s, the six axle Diesel scene was viewed in a much more limited light than today. Back then, you could buy an SD7; which had all the advantages of a Shay, and none of the disadvantages!  The first SD7 was built in May, 1951, and from that point on, the TM was dead in the water...and it wasn't even fully designed yet!

The Illinois Central was poised to order 75 Train Masters, but it was that corporate instablility that made them reconsider.  It probably would have only kept FM afloat for a few more years.

A magazine once pictured FM artwork of what they would have looked like, but I've never been able to find it.  It think the photo might have departed with my Extra 2200 South collection years ago.

Too bad, TM's in IC black and white would have been magnificent.

Rusty

Pretty sure Santa Fe had some 16-44s.  As for CNW:

Yes they did, but those weren't Trainmasters.  And the C&W wasn't considered a "western railroad."

Wasn't the Southern Pacific the only western road to purchase Trainmasters new? Also the the orange and blue Jersey Central (CNJ) scheme was also a Lionel scheme, the CNJ Tranimaseters were always green and the New York Central never owned one that was produced by Williams and the Reading green and black was another Williams paint scheme. 

SP was the only western U.S. road to purchase Train Masters new or used.  (SP bought the TM-3 and TM-4 demonstrators.  TM-1 and TM-2 went to the Wabash.)

Rusty

SP purchased TM-3 and TM-4 which technically would be considered "used," the remaining 14 units were bought new.

Either way, it doesn't matter as SP was the only western railroad to roster Trainmasters as was previously stated.

"Western" railroad or not, the C&NW had the so-called "baby" Train Masters (which is a railfan inspired term and not FM terminology,) the H16-66.  They were shorter than the Train Masters.  And they weren't used in C&NW commuter service.

Only an H24-66 is a Train Master.

Rusty

Even though Williams made a model of one, that still doesn't mean that the Santa Fe Railroad ever had any. By the way, it is "Train Master", and NOT the supervisor of the Trainmen craft, i.e. The Trainmaster.

How it it the SP TM's were able to accelerate faster than the SDP45's?  I know the SDP's had 1200 more hp, but that initself does not make it "faster".  Gears?  Electrical system?

In going thru  some of my books, the following railroads had the Train Master:

Canadian National

Canadian Pacific

CNJ

Delaware, Lackwana & Western

Penn

Reading

Southern Pacific

Southern

Virginian

Wabash

The CN and CP only had one each.  Virginian led the pack with 25.  Reading had 17 and the SP had 14.

In 1956, under license, the Canadian Locomotive Company manufactured some of them.

For a while SP used them to pull the commuter trains between San Francisco and San Jose.

Matt

If the prototype railroads had everything the model train companies made, then the CB&Q would've had DD40's and almost all of them would've had B&O 0-4-0T's!

Rusty

Woah there... Canadian Pacific had more than one Train Master. 8900-8920. 

The 8901 was even originally built with a full width short hood to house two steam generators:

Rusty

The NYCS had TMs on order, the 4600 series of seven, IIRC. Some were actually painted at Beloit, when the order was cancelled. These units became the first of the Espee order. Train Masters were always noted for quick acceleration and that would would be a function of electrical excitation and gearing. CNJ and Lackawanna used them to great effect in Jersey commuter service as well.  PRR was also interested in a large TM order, to be placed in 1957.  The Penn also wanted "protection" in the event that FM folded, a good idea, given the times. FM wigged out, and Penn gave their big six motor order to Alco and EMD.  

And here’s a link to a page with another fantasy ATSF O Gauge Train Master, as well as a UP:

Custom Trains FM Trainmasters - Group I

Bill

Consider myself blessed to have the DL&W, the Wabash, the Black Virginian. Too bad I was unaware of a correct CNJ when these were offered. They are among the best FM Train Masters ever built... and mine are jazzed up with Lionel pilots and sideframes!