Flooding

When I am looking for a house I prefer homes with unfinished basements. Usually when there are water penetration problems, you can see tell tale signs on the walls. Also, basements with water problems often smell and/or feel damp.

Look to see whether there is a sump pump. Some houses don't have or need them.

Look at the ground. Does it slope away from the house (it should).

Are there gutters? Where do the downspouts go?

If you are working with an agent, make certain he/she knows you want a dry basement. Better agents are not going to waste their or your time showing you houses that don't have a dry basement (Trust but verify)

I am certain I've just scratched the surface.

We had historic flooding in the SE Michigan region last week.  My parents home received over 3 feet of water in the basement.  The real culprit was a combined storm and sanitary system that was never upgraded by the municipality.  There are many older communities with this kind of system.  I won't live in a community without a separate storm system because in large rain events combined systems backup.  Not only putting water in your basement but also sewage. 

There are systems and valves that can be installed to mitigate what comes in.  My parents house will soon be outfitted with a "back-water valve" and an auxiliary sump pit.  They lost thousands in valuables.  Everything was neatly up on shelving to accommodate a storm flood.  However with 3 feet of water the shelving toppled over as did floating appliances.

Side note... Last year at this time my entire collection was in that very basement waiting for my new home to be completed...

Not having or needing a sump pump would be very desirable.

The current house's downspouts are still connected to the storm drains. Some were required to disconnect, be we were allowed to keep it that way with a decal on the screen door that appeared after they tested the area. Never asked, just happened. What should I look for in downspout arrangements, and why?

MichR714; I have model RR friends in SE Michigan. It seems they all had sewage horror stories. But not 3 feet of water. The worst was less than a foot.

Good point. Look for separate storm and sanitary drains.

House hunting? separate storm and sanitary sewers would be a must. Sump pump is another. Keep in mind a sump pump will not run if the power is out, however there are backups available for them. A basement is a hole in the ground so water will try to go there. We just have to do what we can to keep it out.

I could write a book on this subject unfortunately.  I am living in my 15th home and have more experience than I would like to have.  I agree with you about having a basement.  I have had one in ever home except for the one in Florida. 

One thing about basements is that there is no such thing as one "that will never flood."  That being said there are many things that you can do to stack the odds in your favor. 

• A home on high ground that drains toward other prosperities not the reverse.
• Land sloped away from the house.  Drainage tile around foundation.
• Good, clean gutters on the house.
• High capacity sump pump for when the above fails.
• Standby electrical generator when the power fails.

Had a dry ranch style house with a beautiful walkout basement.  3 1/2" of rain in less than an hour and the street in front of our house became a river that began running toward my house.  We were at the end of a cul-de-sac and the water jumped the curb surrounded our house and began running in the basement windows and sliding doors.  didn't have a layout yet, but had a finished basement.  Called a 200 year rain, but that didn't make the basement any drier.

Moved to a new house with a "dry basement" that was finished.  Had a 17" rain in 24 hours!  The power was off for 12 hours and we got 42" of water in our basement. 

That is when I went to sump pump overkill and a standby generator.

I am wondering if layouts aren't meant to be in attics?  I still want a basement, but it would be nice not to cringe every time it rains.

Art 

Oversized gutters and downspouts are desirable to current unusually heavy rains.  Having them drain into tubing in the ground to carry it away for the house is also good.  Also have your sump pump empty into hosing that will carry it away from the house so it doesn't just run right back into the ground beside the house.  And make sure that they stay clean of leaves and debris.

Art

Basements are probably the most economical way to go. I think that Art's advice is excellent about the sump pump and a standby generator. Just include this in the initial cost of the property. Stay away from properties with nearby streams and rivers. They can become raging torrents of water.

The others here offer good advice. To add to that, we moved last fall due to out old house having too many problems. There are LOTS of disclosures the seller has to make about the home and I think water in the basement is one of them. If they don't disclose that, they subject themselves to legal action. You will have to do that as well if you and your sibling sell your fathers house. Also ask if the house you want to buy is in a flood plane.

We bought a new house, on high ground with a yard that is sloped away from the house really well (as others have suggested above). New house has a sump pump the old one did not, it was like yours and tied into the sewers. We were told that this is now illegal in most places, reason for the sump pumps. A battery back up for the sump pump is a must, a generator on top of that would be even better.

Our builder had a 10 year warranty on basement leakage. Doesn't mean it won't, but at least if it happens and they are still in business, they will have to fix it. The outside of the foundation was sealed pretty well before back filling. Doesn't include sump pump failure. However, it's been my experience that some of these warranties are not worth the paper they are printed on. Hopefully it won't leak. 

Another thing I liked about this house was that the gutters don't have splash blocks, they are piped into 4" pipe out about 10 feet from the house (down the slope away from foundation). At the end there is a catch basin with a gravel pit under it for drainage. There is also a cover on the basin that looks like a floor drain for water to flow up through in the gravel pit gets full. That gets the water from the roof away from the house even further.

The next thing to do is never store anything on the basement floor. (I need to get this part done myself.) Make sure everything able to be damaged by water is up off the floor at least a few inches. Or if you do have things on the floor, get some plastic containers with lids to store them in. store If it ever does leak your things may not be damaged, unless you get the 42" like Chugman above, then there isn't much you can do but cry and call the insurance man. Flood insurance might be a good idea also if you can get it?

Edit: Chugman added more while I was typing. Some of that I have also suggested but not the sump pump drain. His advice about that being piped from the house is a must also. Ours was about 10 feet away like the roof drains, but the yard was soaked there all the time, like a marsh. We had to have it relocated, cost us quite a bit to have it extended to the back of the property (110-120 feet or so) that buts up to a green space, or so they call it. Also had to get permission from the HOA to do it. We tried to get the builder to do it, but they would not without additional cost so we had  it done after moving in.

Whew!!! Horror stories. I've been very fortunate so far here in Ct. Not a drop of water in the basement.

Quick Casey,

I dealt with a flooding situation a few years ago, luckily I live away from a stream, quite a distance away (blocks). My problem was this I live 15 feet below a street that is going behind my property. The water main broke and sent several hundred gallons of clear water into my basement. I had to contact with a plumber who put a sump pump into 2 areas of my basement then I had to contract with a clean up service to clean up the mess at the same time, I had the plumber seal from the inside on four corners of my basement which involved removal of my paneling and subsequent restoration (all of which can be quite costly). That was in 2011, before Hurricane Sandy hit in 2012......Luckily, I had not a bit of damage while my neighbors on either side of me had water damage in both basements.

As far as real estate goes, be suspicious of fully finished basements with wood paneling (as mine was) all around you want to see areas where water might penetrate into your area specifically because you will be storing boxes down there. be sure to rely heavily on a state certified inspection report (that you have control over) if the seller won't agree to your inspector coming in that should send up red flags for you (telling you that something IS suspicious) you can avoid potential problems this way. Also,be aware that the presence of sump pumps and discuss all problems ahead of time before it comes down to contact time. Mildew or dark spots on walls will produce odors and cannot be hidden, use your nose and your eyes!

Good luck!

Remember, DO NOT STORE ANY BOXES DIRECTLY ON THE FLOOR! Always where possible, store them in plastic boxes, and use on concrete floors 2 inch blocks of wood.

Mike Maurice

My brother built an addition on his house.  The old part has a hand dug stone wall basement.  It was always dry.  When they built the addition they hit a spring that prevented him from having a full depth basement.  He ended up with about six feet which isn't code for occupied space.  The morral of the story is you never know.  My parents basement stayed dry for over 50 years and after one massive storm and flooding in the area the basement started leaking.

I don't know where you live.  Is it an area that floods periodicaly?   Or, is this the 1st time?

Since I maybe wasn't clear in the original post, I live in west-suburban Chicago. I want to move to somewhere (dry) in northern Illinois or Indiana. Semi-rural or small townish.

I have gathered so far that land should slope away from the home. A given, but should be said.

And maybe a sump and dealing with pumps and generator is better than realizing suddenly you need a sump pit and all that and not having one..

Separate sanitary and storm drains.

Get the downspouts and sump pit to discharge away from the house.

In any case, do not store anything directly on the floor.

I am watching this with great interest. Keep the responses coming. I find then helpful. It is helping my mood if anything else. Losing dad and the dog in recent months sure have left the place quiet. Too quiet. The next year will be quite a trip.

IMHO, if you do purchase a house with a sump pump, a backup is a must.

Before I had a backup, I had a pump fail and came home to about 2 inches of water in the basement. Luckily most things were on shelves. But another 1/2 inch.......

My backup pump is battery powered. I have had it go onto action on power failures, and when the backflow valve on my main pump broke and clogged the output pipe.
The down side is the need to periodically replace the battery.

I really like Zoller sump pumps. They are compact, everything is in the pit.  They also seem to be able to pump to a lower level than those that use a tethered float switch.

Dear Quick Casey,

Take some quiet time for yourself, I realize that your Dad is something but dealing with a much beloved pet is something else. Allow yourself time to properly grieve man!

Making decisions about moving out take time, go easy on yourself. Most of all get out of the house a little, you may find yourself remembering too much.

Mike Maurice

Thought of a couple more things. Poured concrete basement walls at least 8 inches thick, no stone or block. For a long wall they should have about a 12 inch long support 90 degrees to the basement walls wall every so many feet. This re-enforces the longer walls. They could be on the inside or outside of the foundation. If outside you probably won't be able see them. At least that's what they do around here (Kansas City area).

Not sure what they use in your area, but around here the stone and block foundations don't hold up. Leakage is more prevalent in them also. Probably due to several things and clay soil is one of them. 8-9 foot high walls would be nice to have also, if you ever want to finish the ceiling. Our old house was only about 7 feet or so to the bottom of the floor joists, it was a stone foundation and it leaked during heavy rains.

Inspection by a structural engineer might be a good idea also. The one we had for our inspection said that it wasn't a question of if your basement leaked, but when it would leak. He thought they would all settle and leak sooner or later. At least around here anyway, due to lousy soil. It's possible the block or stone walls might hold up better in other areas where the soil is different?

Great advice posted above.

One more item to consider. Look for "over head" sewer lines. You want the lines out of your basement to be as high as possible on the outer wall so that it is harder for the water to back up into the home. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. See how the main pipe (the big one with the cleanout cap) is about chest high?

Having never lived in a house with a basement - I'm a Sunbelter - I often envy you guys

who have all that "free" real estate just down there under the house...until I read threads

like this, and, though I know many here don't notice it, these flood/basement threads

come up a LOT.

There are basements here, but they are not common. I have a separate RR building

(12 X 24) in the back yard. Generally these are smaller than a typical (whatever that is)

Yankee basement. But it never floods...leaks...needs a sump pump (a bilge pump for

your house! Ahoy!)...or gets clammy. I have had to get new roof shingles, once (it's 20+

years old), and a new window A/C unit (110 V.) And it's not hurricane-proof - but it's

gone through 2 or 3 of them (the well-known Katrina hit here, too, but here in Mobile, we don't live below sea level...).

So, as it turns out, I envy your basement square-footage, but that's about all, I'd say.

Good thing, because I'll almost certainly never have one. 

Unless your running a carpet central I think the basement is an excellent place for a layout.  Should you keep items on the floor, probably not.  With that said most layouts would survive a small amount of water in the basement without any issues.  The real issue here is a major event putting feet of water into a basement and how to mitigate those risks.

Bigtruck is that your sump going into your sanitary?

Where does your storm water go if the sanitary backs up?

No matter how much a home seller tries to hide it, you can tell a wet basement with your nose.

High ground is good. One of the main reasons for picking my place was the fact that it was near the top of a hill and had sandy soil for good drainage. Basically it sits on top of a glacial sand bar. This was before I went nuts with trains.

Where I live, it is forbidden to connect a sump pump to the sewer system. Occasionally I see sumps set up that way when I visit estate sales, but technically it is not allowed. Those home owners just haven't been caught.

While home shopping, another thing to be aware of are "grinder pumps". There are some houses in my area that are built too low to be connected to the town sewer system with a gravity feed. In these houses, there is a "grinder pump" that is needed to send the wastewater on it's way. We eliminated some houses because they required these pumps. Seems like an unnecessary failure point to me.

CW, in bigtruck's pic above I would expect if not the sump that is exactly what is going on there.  A grinder setup.

High ground does not ensure that you will have a dry basement. You need to know where the avg. water table is for an area.

I found the US Navy does surveys in areas (go figure) with construction standards. Part of those standards defines the recommend maximum depth of a footer or foundation wall\floor.

Most states have geological construction data from surveys to provide guidance.

However, that deals with ground water. If you live in an area that does not drain run-off or surface water well, you'll get flooded by that with the dumb storms we've had in the last few years.

So, do some internet searching for the areas you may like to move to and see what you can find.

My experiences in 60+ years with basements have not been as bad as they sound. All my life I have not really had any 'flooding' in any basement we have had. Lived in a house with a crawl space for a couple years, all others had basements. Before moving last fall we lived in for an older ranch house for 35 years. It had a stone foundation and during extremely heavy rains water would seep in through the stone walls and run down to the floor drain. Never any deeper than if you poured a container of water on the floor and it ran to the drain. If nothing is on the floor where the water drains you are just fine. The basements we have had were never muggy, damp or smelled of dampness. Unfortunately some folks have had real flooding experiences that were much worse.

The new house we moved into last fall, also a ranch, has a sump pump. First time for one of those for us. It's a little different setup having to keep the pump in working order and having a battery backup if power fails. They use a car battery that gives us about 10 hours of pump run time. Takes about 30 seconds or so to empty the sump. Not really that bad other than a little extra maintenance checking the battery water levels and charge. It has a trickle charger built in that keeps the battery up.

Here in the Midwest we also have tornados, main reason for having basements is shelter. I would not live in a house around here with out one. Personally, I prefer unfinished basements. No particular reason, just what I'm used to I guess. To me, the benefits of having a basement, all the wide open space, tornado shelter, cooler in summer and warmer in winter far outweigh the thought of having a little water now and then. With our new house being poured concrete I am looking forward to the not having any water leaking in the walls, at least hoping anyway. 

Our current house has the washer and dryer upstairs on the main level, that scares me more than any water leakage in the basement. All our other houses had the washer and dryer in the basement. Got some of those stainless steel braided hoses for the washer. The only thing that scares me more is sump pump failure during a heavy rain. However, they no longer build houses around here with out them, we'll just have to get used to it.  

Don't let a battery pump lull you into a false sense of security, it all depends on the storm.  During last night's rain I had two sump pumps running non-stop for several hours.  Fortunately, they kept pace with the downpour.

The storms last year did my Ace-in-the Hole in, the housing cracked.  The water was coming in so fast even that one was running right full tilt along with the other two.  I didn't replace the Ace because I now have an automatic 10kw stand-by generator wired into the house.

The Ace and another Zoeller pump are down there somewhere, the main pump (also a Zoeller) is in another pit next to this one.

That's about 2.5" of water above the pit rim, all three pumps are running full blast.  There was that much rain over an 8 hour period.

Rusty

What you are calling a grinder pump is I think more commonly called an ejector pump.  It is used to grind sewage so it can be pumped up and out a sewer line that is above the level of the basement floor.  After I had my 42" of water I installed one even though my sewer pipes were below the floor level.  Before you think I was crazy (I know it's a possibility) my thinking was that I would never have to worry about any sewer water backing up out of the floor drains or toilets during heavy rains.  Those drains were all piped to an ejector pit and then the pump pumped it up to ceiling height and then it ran down and out the regular sewer.  This meant that the water table would have to get to my ceiling height before I could have a problem.

I also put in two commercial sump pumps that I think were each rated at 150 gal per min, ran new larger pipe outside where they dumped into large tubing which carried it all the water to a catch basin in the back yard.  Installed an 8KW natural gas generator that started automatically any time the power was off for 30 seconds or more.  An expensive remedy.  As a side note the generator only ran for power outages about 30 minutes in the next ten years.  One sump had to be replaced in that time, but not a drop of water in the basement.  And I would do it all over again in a heart beat.  Could sleep at night when it rained.

Art

I forgot to mention when I had my 42" of water in the basement, I had two sump pumps and a big battery backup on the one.  They could not keep up and the battery became submerged and died.  I think they said our 17" rain was a 500 year flood?  State Farm didn't care, they said if we didn't do something special to prevent this from reoccurring they would not insure us.

Art

About 6 months after we had our generator installed, we had a 4 day power outage.  As far as I'm concerned, it paid for itself right then and there.  If all it ever does from now on is it's weekly 10 minute test cycle, it was still money well spent.

Besides, I got tired of dragging out my little 20 year old gas generator and stringing extension cords during outages...

Rusty

quote:

What you are calling a grinder pump is I think more commonly called an ejector pump. 

I was not familiar with the term "ejector pump", so I did a little searching. Apparently there is a difference between the two types. For those who are interested, here is a write-up.

two things stand out from some of you guys, and believe me..I KNOW HOUSES!

the concrete basement wall is a MUST,  block walls leak and the parging is better thab the block wall,

Yep...find a house with ground sloping away from the house..and the downspouts should too.

If you see a sump pump....to me that's a FAIL! Your backup generator will just keep the sump pump pumping water out that will come right back in from saturated ground, unless its illegally hooked to a storm drain system.

plant bushes near your house...they soak up water and the space near the roots allows water to go down.  Before you buy a house, or even build try and drive several/many times around the 'hood to look at the topography....nearby streams..and where does the water off your "possible property" drain?

you dont need an engineer or dimwit realtor......think it through, make notes for an investigation. Also buy a house if possible with am unfinished basement.

The original poster sounds like he was in Montgomery County in New York State. If you can sell your home and get out of  New York It would probably be wise. Otherwise look for a house on a hill, don't buy anything lower on a stream or river.

I grew up on the Hoosic river in eastern NY.  We endured several floods, so the houses that 

i have bought since have alays been on a hill.

The Hudson will need to rise about 650 feet before I worry about it at my present location, my basement is safe.

Fred

My advice is move farther west. Like Iowa or Nebraska.  Then if you pick high ground with good drainage, you will not need a sump pump, only a dehumidifier.  Not only that, the traffic is very manageable, in places slim to not much. Much simpler retirement, you can always go visit the city if you like.  For example, I have a walk out basement about 1800 square feet on main floor, man cave under the double garage, and I would think it would not bring over $140,000 in this small town. 

Lots of GREAT advice given here...no need to re type it.These guys have seen it(and been through it) all.Nick

One thing that I don't think has been messaged here enough is that even though it hasn't gotten water yet, doesn't mean it never will. In our previous house, our neighbor had lived in the house for about 55 years without water in the basement. Well, they did some construction up from her house, and she began getting water in the basement.

This is why even though we don't get water in the basement, we painted the back block wall with that waterlock paint, and all my boxes are up on pallets.

My ideal house would be built on top or the side of hill and have a walk in basement. That is one with at least one door the exits level with the ground. Not only does it eliminate steps to bring materials into the basement but it pretty much rules out flooding. 

Pete

You can't really tell by looking at a house whether or not the basement will ever flood. You almost have to have it custom built where you can see what the ground under the basement looks like and like the above has mentioned see that footing drains were installed both inside & outside.

I used to dig basements and ponds/lakes years ago and underground springs can pop up anywhere and at anytime. Before digging a pond/lake we'd move in and dig test holes to see where the ground water was/ is. One potential 1/2 acre pond site was dry 12' down....but 100' away where the new basement hole was dug filled up with water overnight...go figure? and couldn't be built on...the county shut that down. 

Building on hills etc. isn't much safer as over the years I've seen many a natural spring that runs out the side of a hill. Just drive down US Hwy 72 in Hampshire, IL. and you'll see a spot where the pavement is always wet on the side of a hill...underground springs.

Face it, A hole in the ground is just begging to be filled with water and plan accordingly.

Not to make light of an serious, inquiry because it's a fear most of us basement dwellers have.  

I saw an ad for a house once that gave me a tell-tale sign to stay away.  It went something like this, "Completely remodeled since the dam was rebuilt."  To me, that one was a serious warning to stay away.