Friction bearings open windows

Rode a BNSF steam excursion with 261 some 10+ years ago, was hanging in the vestibule with my goggles, and a fellow from the sponsoring group would come by every 5 minutes or so and yell at us to get our heads in from the half open dutch door. He said it was legal liability. Pretty much ruined my enjoyment of the trip. The good old lawyer clan spoiling something else in our society, primarily for the venal enrichment. 

Based on the excursion "Frequently Asked Questions" list put out by the FWRHS, NS does not allow open windows or open vestibules, and I'm sure it is a liability issue. CVSR can have whatever policy they want, as long as their insurance is OK with it. Another thing to consider is how fast the trains operate. Excursions on NS generally operate at 40 MPH, which isn't fast, but much faster than when they operate on non-NS trackage, and that makes things like friction bearings and open windows a bigger deal.   As for the friction bearings, as a general rule, NS does not allow them, although they MAY accept them on a case by case basis. (Such as moving historic equipment to a new location). NS will also accept non rotating end cap roller bearings on a case by case basis, where CSX will not under ANY circumstance. When their are plenty of roller bearing equipped passenger cars (including their own) to be had, I imagine NS sees no reason to allow friction bearings in excursion service. Their railroad, their rules, and yes the rules are MUCH tighter than they were twenty years ago.  Thank the lawyers for THAT!

My understanding is that "friction" bearings are banned by the FRA in interchange.  Railroads that own them (RBMN for example) can use them INTRAline. There might possibly be a Federal speed restriction.

On trips operating under Amtrak insurance, open windows, doors and platform occupancy is forbidden.  Cars must be equipped with roller bearings and "tightlock" couplers.

Kent Loudon

Must have been someone strange.  I would have just moved to a different coach unless this guy simply spent 10 hours walking the train from end to end non-stop. 

I had tickets for 261's recent trip to Duluth at the end of September, and other than the request to close vestibules when we were passing another train on an adjacent track, the general mandate was to be safe and bring home all the cinders in your hair that you want.

Kevin

I consider those steam engines under the "special case basis".  For one thing, NS has a long time working rleationship with the groups in question and know the equipment.  If I, John Q. Public tried to get some old steamer I bought from Jerry Jacobsen (example)moved from his place to Fort Wayne, I'm guessing I would have to jump through a LOT of hoops to get NS to touch it, and they might STILL say no, if for no other reason than they don't have to if they don't want to.

I would agree that "towing a dead" steam locomotive might be an issue but, the NS never said a word about the SP4449 trip in 2009 to Owosso, Mich. She also does have bearing temperature monitors.

Well, maybe they weren't too concerned because you were running under Amtrak's umbrella AND the impeccable reputation of the #4449 group probably didn't hurt either. I've said for some time that if ANYBODY could get permission to run a steamer somewhere, it would be you guys or the FWRHS.  Both group's people and their body of work speaks for itself.

As best as I could determine, when I still worked for a railroad, the last plain bearing cars were built in 1960. They were private marked tank cars.  Since the AAR interchange rules do not allow freight cars more that 40 years old in interchange, the last plain bearing car covered by the interchange rules would have been out of service by 2000. Locomotives and passenger cars are not covered by the interchange rules. 

In reality plain bearing cars were getting scarce by the mid 1980s. At that time plain bearing freight cars had fewer failures per mile than roller bearing cars.  The reason for this was probably two fold.  Roller bearing grease had the asbestos and lead removed from it prior to this and replacement greases did not have the same life, and still does not.  Also the high cost of diesel fuel was encouraging roller bearing manufacturs to reduce the lip seal contact pressure to reduce rolling resistance. This turned out to be a problem for bearing life.

As the number of plain bearings in service continued to decline, the industry that supported them began to disappear. Today you can not buy journal pads, rear seals, brass, wedges, box lids, or box lid seals.  The tools necessary to maintain plain bearings also disappeared.  The drum of oil in every train yard is gone. So is the oil can.  There are no more packing hooks or irons, the quick soak machines are gone, as are the three hoist gantrys from the one spots.  All the journal gauges are gone.  And the the biggest problem is most of the men who knew and understood plain bearings are gone.  If you go to a railroad today and ask to move a plain bearing car or locomotive, chances are the person you are talking to has never worked on one.  It is not surprising that he will not approve the movement as he has no knowledge of the technology. 

Just a couple of plain bearing stories from my own experience. I was working as a carman in a train yard during a nation wide strike.  There was a long train we were trying to get out of town.  I was lacing it up and inspecting all the cars as I went.  I got to a plain bearing boxcar, it was an IC car.  The only plain bearing car on the train.  My first thought was " it will make it to the next yard, just let it go"  But I finally decided I had better do the right thing and I poped open one of the journal box lids.  It was completely dry.  I had to make three trips to the carman's shack to get enough oil to fill all the journals on that car. I put seven gallons of oil in it. I sure was glad I had checked that car.  During a strike is no time to have a hot box.

Another time, more recently, I was involved in a special move of a plain bearing caboose.  The UP had given permission to move it on its own plain bearing trucks.  It was part of a special train move. Everyone was taking extra care to besure everything was done correctly, or that is what I thought.  Several weeks after the move I was looking at this caboose and looked at the journals to see how they had faired on the trip.  Some were hard to see because they were behind the step wells.  I was surprised by what I found.  The surfaces of the pads were hard and glazed.  The car was lucky to have made the trip without a hot box. I could not figure how someone could have taken this risk on this special move with everyone watching.

Good point.  People are afraid of what they don't know.  All of the young mechanics I know are scared off by breaker point ignitions, because they have never worked on them.  They don't even KNOW what dwell means...

It's all fun and games until someone gets their head torn off.

I personally haven't witnessed it but I know people who have. Wild kid sticking his head out the window on a school bus. Ripped clean off his shoulders...

"I should be free to allow myself to be maimed or killed if I want. I won't sue. I promise." What about your grieving family? You can't promise that they won't sue after you're dead and gone, especially when that smooth-talking personal injury lawyer finds them when they're at the anger stage.

Well, I love to get a snoot-full of cinders.  The Cumbres & Toltec was quite liberal in their vestibule and open- car policies. The Durango & Silverton, while having better equipment and scenery, was so up-tight that all pleasure disappeared during the ride. "You vill sit in your seat and do exactly as you are told".

But liability and liability insurance are surely the drivers for most tourist railroads.  I assure you that, in aviation, I make diligent efforts to remain within the strictures of my insurance policies.