Just thought about this.I know some people have horror stories about lionel trains of the eara.With the trains just not working or not running right.So I just want to know did any body try this?
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Frank Timko at timko repair depot has can motors and adapter plates for many applications.
One thing to keep in mind about at least some of the Timko motor upgrades. I have a pair of Reading T-1 4-8-4 locomotives with the Timko upgrade, the motor is the Mabuchi RS-385SH motors, and those are considerably smaller than the motor used in most full sized steam engines. I don't have any issues with them, but I don't have traction tires on these, and I just let them spin if they get overloaded. I suspect I could overheat the motors if they had traction tires and I tried pulling too large a load.
I will say that a larger motor wouldn't fit inside the shell of this particular upgrade, so maybe other steamers with more room get a larger motor, I can't say. It's certainly a question I would ask!
I have put the Timko motor in the Lionel J and Daylight, which are both like the postwar Berk chassis.
They work fine. I use the ERR cruise for control along with Railsounds.
The 4-8-4 Northerns, such as the Rock Island, are on a J chassis so the Timko will work in this type.
The J and Daylight with the Timko motor will pull 8 aluminum 15 inch passenger cars. I have not tried it with more nor have I tried it on grades. Both do have magne traction.
gunrunnerjohn posted:One thing to keep in mind about at least some of the Timko motor upgrades. I have a pair of Reading T-1 4-8-4 locomotives with the Timko upgrade, the motor is the Mabuchi RS-385SH motors, and those are considerably smaller than the motor used in most full sized steam engines. I don't have any issues with them, but I don't have traction tires on these, and I just let them spin if they get overloaded. I suspect I could overheat the motors if they had traction tires and I tried pulling too large a load.
I will say that a larger motor wouldn't fit inside the shell of this particular upgrade, so maybe other steamers with more room get a larger motor, I can't say. It's certainly a question I would ask!
Thanks for the information.I was just thinking about some people who decide to fix it Or try to make it better.In the 1980s lionel steam locomotives that size costed a lot of money.Some would decide to fix it rather than get rid of it.
Jeff2035 posted:The J and Daylight with the Timko motor will pull 8 aluminum 15 inch passenger cars. I have not tried it with more nor have I tried it on grades. Both do have magne traction.
It's not a question of whether it'll pull them, it's a question of overloading the smaller motor. I don't know if he uses the same size motor in all the conversions. I can pull 18-20 freight cars with the T-1, including a long 2.5% grade.
Good point.
At work today.
tomorrow I will put one on the tracks and run it with the 8 cars for 30 minutes and report if motor gets hot.
John, what is your definition of too warm for the motor? Like, too hot to touch?
Seems I recall that the main problems were with two engines, the Rock Island Northern made in 1987 and the Lackawanna Northern made in 1988. I remember the article in Jim's Backshop article about the fix (problem was primarily defective motor bushings). Once those were repaired, the engines ran well, I believe was the conclusion. Here's an earlier thread from 2012 about the same subject as is being discussed here:
Just received a lionel 4-8-4 Rock Island locomotive and tender . It will not move just hums, when i lift it to release the magnatraction the drivers go like gang busters sit it back down just sits and hums. Is there a way to regulate or turn off the magnatraction on this locomotive . It is used so no paper work any help will be appreciated thanks
Dave
♦♦<Retired&Broke RR>♦♦
Original Post
No way to turn off the magnetraction. However, that is not your problem. These locomotives were not manufactured correctly. The motor bushings were bored with the wrong diameter along with some other problems.
This topic has been brought up before and there are articles in O Gauge Magazine on how to fix everything.
In short, the mechanism is jammed or jams during operation which prevents running and not the magnetraction. In proper working order, the locomotive will operate quite well. It is based upon the postwar berkshire and will operate like one when all fixed up.
Magnatraction is not an on/off feature, it's just there.
The Rock Island Northerns were notoriously poor runners. It could be anything from a defective motor to gear alignment.
There are some here who've been able to tune up these things, I'll have to defer to their expertise.
Rusty
I am running a cw80 transformer and it starts to flash after a while is it powerful enough to run this loco
♦♦<Retired&Broke RR>♦♦
My Rock Isl needed a bit of work. Worst was that I had to unwind the field coil one wind at a time and rewind it because the factory wound most of the wire on one side.
This bad winding caused a moaning sort of growl and very poor pulling ability. Other documented issues include bent armature shafts, the armature bearings being crooked, rear wheel rubbing against the frame, side rods out of quarter.
I replaced the motor bushings and ended up with a nice running loco.
TCA - Glancy Trains Modular Group
I had one new and returned it to the dealer. That engine would be very cool with a trip to Frank Timko to get re motored.
TCA-79-13758
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Some years ago, in '87 & '88, when the new Rock Island (#18001) & Lackawanna (18003) "Northern" locos were released, it was discovered the bearings in the output shaft in some of the motors were defective. My DL&W 4-8-4 was brand new; a few yrs. ago I decided to lubricate it for a test run (it looks great!); it ran OK for a few laps, slowed & stalled.
The fix is installing a motor from a postwar #736 Berkshire (part #681-100). OGR had an excellent article on this problem by Jim Barrett in his "Backshop" column a few yrs. ago. (I have a copy, but I'm unable to locate it now.) Lionel got a black eye over the problem, since the large locos & tenders were new castings & they were expected to run well. Hope this helps. (I believe Dennis Waldron, in NJ, has the replacement motors.)
I've had 3 of those engines, none was right out of the box, took to my friendly dealer and he replaced the motors with the 681 motor, lubed and we are off to the races.
Later I took them to a train show for show and tell. One guy with a lot of money went home with all 3 of my pullers, he was happy because he had another one at home just like them, but it wouldn't run, later on he told me he replaced the motor with an old worn out 736. He had seen what I had done, but didn't now the dealer friend did it for me.
Every one I have found since has been priced too high to fool with, but they are beautiful engines at the head of a long freight.
Rod
Out of the box the Rock 4-8-4 is a wimpy engine. Change out the motor and you'll be good to go. Even if you can get a copy of the Jim Barrett fix article you may want to have it done by your local repair guy, or somebody like Timko who's a motor expert.
thanks everyone for the replies, talked to Frank Timko today and found out replacing with a can motor may not be to costly now I have to wait to see what Fedex insurance does, they delivered it damaged, by what looks like dropping it on it nose breaking the left step and may have shaken something loose inside if they cover it ok, if not I will try to figure out the best way to go.....
thanks again
Dave
♦♦<Retired&Broke RR>♦♦
Just curious: who is Frank Timko & where is he located? Thanks! DK
I bought a Rock Island Northern many years ago. Yes there were problems with the motor, so I rebuilt it using the correct motor bearings and replaced the brush plate. The engine ran better after that, but was still a little sluggish. One issue was gear lash and the other appeared to be drag created by the extra magnet. I purchased a postwar 746 chassis, installed it and haven't had any problems since. One of the better running traditional engines I have.
Frank Timko
Timkos Repair Depot
349 Grange Hill Road
Beavercreek OH 45430
937-429-1461
Frank has can motors that can be used to replace Lionel AC worm gear motors, like in Berkshires/Js/or Northerns. He can also do the "premium" AC motors in diesels like F3s, Budd units, etc. Email or call him and he can give you specifics for your particular locomotive. He has done 3 locos for me. he can also install boards like the ERR Cruise Commander and railsounds.
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Jeff2035 posted:John, what is your definition of too warm for the motor? Like, too hot to touch?
If the motor has gotten up into the 55-60C temperature, I'd start to be concerned. I measure temperature with a non-contact IR temperature sensor. If the outside of the motor is at 60C, the windings are considerably warmer.
For directions on repair of the 18001 see my October post "18001 Rock Island Instructions?and repair article?"
Aussteve scanned the OGR repair article and posted it.
I have had 2 engines done from Frank does great work but if you send it to him get a idea of when it will be done or you may be waiting a long time before you get your engine back!
