Help question on Rattle can Painting.

Ron,

Are you using the metal etching primer on bare metal or over existing old paint? I always use it on bare metal.

 

What are you using to strip paint? Why not remove stanchions?

I hope that you are thoroughly washing the frame with hot soapy water after you strip everything? Then allow it at least 48 hours to dry in a warm location.

Instead of the etching primer, clean frame with white vinegar and let dry completely.

Use regular rustoleum primer, allow 48 hours to dry, paint as before. Allow plenty of time between coats especially if humidity is high.

Wait at least 30 days to clear coat. This time use Tamiya high gloss clear.

Hi Pappy, glad that your back.

Paint has been stripped of completely using paint remover. The is wired brushed with a brass type wire wheel and 0000 steal wool . It is given baths of lacquer thinner during this process. After cleaning it is wiped down with the lacquer thinner the the stanchions are masked (parts are always dry before painting). The primer goes on good as well as the black. It seems to be in the clear coats solvent in the can reacting to the black painted surface. Tried light coats all with the same results. I have large arbor press that has a 1/2 inch hole for a tool. I don not have a cross pattern tool, so I just mask. I usually make up tools as I go.

 

Ron

Hi Pappy, will try the was method and the Tamiya clear coat. Will let you know of the results.

 

Thank You:

Ron

From my experience...

 

There is nothing wrong with quality self etching primer.

 

I see the "crinkle" issue as either the undercoat of paint not fully dry or the problem is the clear coat. And depending upon humidity and such, 48 hours is too soon to clear coat. You should wait weeks...

 

For toys, I would avoid the clear coat. There really is not enough surface area of paint on a toy to warrant the clear coat. Instead wait a few months for the paint to dry completely, then buff it out and put on a final coat of wax. Plus, a clear coat makes possible future repairs or touch ups problematic.

 

Also, switching to Krylon is a distinct step down in quality. Rust-O-Leum has a lot of filler and plastic in it, but Krylon is worse. Any paint that dries fast is full of all kinds of additives... Stepping up to auto paints (like Duplicolor) will reduce problems.

 

Also FYI, after washing you need to get rid of the water... Washing with soap and water is OK, but air drying does not remove all of the water film. Baking in an oven helps (hotter and faster evaporation). Even alcohol has water content. A final wash of lacquer thinner/naptha/acetone will help fight off the water. And wear gloves. Don't touch the bare metal or primer as it will leave finger oils.

 

Good luck.

I would eliminate the clear coat and bake on the color finish. This will produce a tougher coating that also has more shine.

With the exception of Tamiya, clear coats have given me problems also. You need to do the clear within an hour or so or wait a month. For black, I do not use a primer or clear coat, just Rust-Oleum gloss black.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Ron,

I'm somewhat confused as to why you're having such problems. It's almost like the old days. It happened quite often when the clear coat was lacquer applied over enamel. I concur with Steve and Joe on waiting to apply the clear if at all.

 

Please, do not hesitate to ask for help.

 

Just as puzzled as everyone else.

First the clear-coat was not used to make the whole chassis glossy but to clear the brash flag stations from oxidizing, it seemed easier then using a brush (which I will do now).

Anyway I'm using the same type of paint across the board and the only thing I can figure is that there must be a solvent in the clear coat paint that is attacking the "BLACK" paint. I used the clear coat on other Rustoleum colors with great success. I will use repaint again with the etching primer, then the black, remove the masking on the brass flag stations and hand paint them with clear gloss. This way I will eliminate the crinkle finish. Ordered the rubber stamp set for the Lionel/248. I will let all know when the chassis is completed. Thanks again for all the suggestions, got to love this Forum.

 

Hello All, thank you for your input:

 

Finished painting the chassis of the 248. This time I primed it, waited 3 days then painted with the black. After it dried for a day or so I removed the masking on the bras flag stanchions and gave them a coat of clear using a brush avoiding giving everything a clear coat and ending up with a crustoleum paint job.

Pictures are attached of the chassis. When I m finished with the loco I will open up another post with the before and after pictures.

 

 

Its not uncommon for the same brand paint to lift a previously applied coat. That said, I have always done my restorations the same way Lionel did them originally. First remove all brass and nickel parts, strip paint with either solvent strippers or bead blast. Then repaint directly on the metal. Charles Woods or Hennings really don't need primer. If you feel the need for clearcoat on the bright metal then use it before reattaching. Some of my repaints are over 40 years old, get used frequently without paint loss. New technology is not always better.

 

Pete

Thanks for the update Pete.

I removed the couplers but do not have the tooling for the flag stanchions which take the cross cut tool and my press takes a 1/2 inch tool not 3/8. I usually make my own tools for the press on a lathe. What I may do is get a 3/8 cross type press tool and make a bushing so I can use the 3/8 tool in the 1/2 press. This would not be to hard a all I need is a 1/2 inch round stock and bore it out (not a thru hole just part) to 3/8 inch. Would you know if the brass flag replacement stanchions are hollow on the end or solid?

 

Thanks:

RonH

Nice work Ron.

RonH,

Outstanding job!

Replacement stanchions come un-threaded/threaded. You'll need to ask when ordering. Both types come with screws for the bases.

Keep up the great work.

Nice work, Ron.

 

I note that this is a 248.  I have what I believe may be a orphan motor for a 248.  It has a manual reverse switch, and never having seen a 248 up close and personal, I was wondering how the reverse switch was mounted in the frame.  If you can do so, I would like to see a pic of the motor and reverse switch mounted.  Thanks.

 

 

Hi Yukon Jack:

 

From my research and looking at the 248 that I have, the 248 that I m restoring did not come with a manual reversing switch.

Here is some information on the 248:

http://www.train99.com/ency/lionel1/eng/l250sra.html

 

I could be wrong and during that time the 248 was in production Lionel purchased Ives and was using parts from Ive and maybe something went out with a reversing switch. Is your manual reversing switch a cylinder or a round flat disk with 4 screw terminals?

 

Thanks:

RonH

 

Thanks for the link, Ron.  This motor must be for some other model.  The reverse switch is a disk type with 4 screw terminals.  It quite a large heavy Lionel motor with plain (no spokes) drive wheels.  

Yukon Jack,

You could have a motor w/manual reverse for a 253 and larger. It's hard to say without a photo. Don't give up, dig, dig until you have the answer. 

Even the Ives version of the 248 did not have a reverse.

Steve

Here are some pics of my orphan.  Anyone know what loco this went with?

 

 

 

Hi Yukon Jack:

 

Looks like your motor is a type 5 made between 1928/29.

This type of motor was used in a Lionel 252 or 253. Since the switch is not mounted to the frame and the wires are long I would suggest that it came from a 253. Greenbergs Guide to Lionel Trains 1901 ti 1942 is a great reference. Would also like to hear from others if this is correct.

 

RonH

Jack,

My earlier guess wasn't far off. Now for the question of the evening. How much do you want for it? I'll be more than happy to take it off your hands. It's just what I'm looking for. My email is in my profile.

Hi Jack:

 

Every once in a while you can find a 253  shell and chassis on ebay.

There is one right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel...;hash=item20fb7f15f6

This is nice but does dot have the two window/grill brass inserts and those could be hard to find.

By the way this motor looks great, nice condition.

I always look at the wheels and contact pick-ups as these price to replace add up and yours look great.

I would offer to purchase it too, but Happy Pappy asked first, what ever happens     I m sure it will be on the rails again.

 

RonH

 

Ron and Pappy, thanks for IDing the motor for me guys!  Not sure what I want to do with the motor, but now that I know what it goes in, I think I will see if I can find a suitable orphan 253 shell, and put it back on the rails.  However, if that does not come together, I will contact you, Pappy with first dibs.  Thanks again, gents.

Jack,

I was going to send all my contact information to you. There's one problem, no email address in your profile.

Pappy, I added my email to my profile.  I hope!