Hiawatha (6-38094) not responding

I presume you mean No. 38094.

Yes, thanks for the catch.  Just edited the Topic.  

If the tender is connected to the engine, it should not start any sounds when power is applied. It is suppose to remain quiet until addressed.  My first guess would be the radio board went bad.  Once you get the shell off, unplug and replug the board in.  Also check the antenna connection to make sure it did not come off.  I would also suggest to reprogram it, but if its not detecting the command signal, that may not work.  If all that fails to yield any results, i would pull a radio board from another engine and try it in this engine.  if it works, then you know its a bad radio board.

As for getting the shell off, sometimes you may need to wiggle it a bit to free it up.  Depending on how the wires are stuffed in there, it may be tight.  Normally steamers have 1-2 screws up front, and 2 in the rear to mount the shell.

I was  thinking the radio  board as well. or, if I'm lucky it will only be an antenna connection issue.  I know I got all the body  screws removed.  I'll wiggle some more. Have you removed the shell on the Hiawatha?  Thanks.

No, I have not.  I have worked on several steamers.  Generally there are two screws in the back, and at last one up front, under the leading truck.  I normally remove the leading truck to get access to it.  Hopefully some who has this engine can you help you more.

OK. 

Yes, I have taken it off.  It is little bit tricky.  The front broiler is what comes off.  The Cab stays connected to the frame.  If I recall correctly, their are screws on the bottom past the cab that you want to remove to remove the broiler.  The wires are tight fitting into the broiler and some attach to the top of broiler so be careful not to try to yank it off too hard.  If it is not sliding off, you probably still need to remove some screws on the bottom.  Also, the front windows on the Cab, at least on mine, have fallen out, with the trying to get it apart.  

Ed

 I had the same problem trying to open that engine.  I don't have an answer for you.  Hopefully someone does.  I removed the screws holding the shell and the shell budged only about 1/2".  I even removed some screws (barely) accessible through the smoke box doors, and then pulled harder than I thought I should, and I was still unable to open it.  I managed to get it all back together and my only loss was 2 hours of frustration.

My original problem was that smoke poured out under the frame.  While this was a nice blowdown effect, none came out the stack.  There was an obstruction in the stack which I thought was an assembly problem.   It turns out that it was a "slug" in the shell casting right at the bottom of the stack.  I was able to punch it at the edge with a small screwdriver down the stack and twist it 90 degrees to pen up the stack.

That is a beautiful engine.  I hope you get your answer.

Bob

Bob, I appreciate your advising me you had the same problem so it's not just me.  It is a beautiful engine and I love watching it run so I'm going to contact Lionel and see if they'll fix it.  Now, all I have to do is find the box...it's somewhere in my garage  overhead storage area...boxes, boxes, everywhere.  

Here is photo with broiler taken off of mine about a year ago.  I think I only need to remove 4 screws; although, I removed 6.  2 in the front and and 2 in front of the cab.  I had to replace the wicking in the smoke unit because as your see it was burnt up!

Thanks, very helpful. Did you have the same resistance to removing that I'm having?  If so, was the solution force?

Force is almost always NOT the solution. It's a natural human tendency to apply force, but it is almost always the wrong thing to do.

Make sure all the fasteners that are holding it are removed. In KJSTRAINS picture, there are 6 screws removed.

kjstrains posted:

Here is photo with broiler taken off of mine about a year ago.  I think I only need to remove 4 screws; although, I removed 6.  2 in the front and and 2 in front of the cab.  I had to replace the wicking in the smoke unit because as your see it was burnt up!

Is your model the 6-38094 ? 

Reseat and reprogram your R2LC and do the aux-1-74.  If that does not help, replace your R2LC with a known good one.  Let us know what you see.  

Ed,

Yes, I have the same model as you, 6-38094.  Lionel has only made this model once as far as I know which was around 2006. 

I need to clear up some confusion here including some things I said which were wrong.  I took mine apart over a year ago as shown in the photo above in this thread.  At that time it was the first time I took it apart so I took more screws out than needed because I did not know how take it apart. 

I took mine out of the box tonight and took it apart again and took some photos below. 

There is only 2 screws that hold the broiler to the frame as I have circled in the the photos.  I drew the circles to only make things understandable. 

The placement of the screws are up front are sort of way down within so you have to look for them.  When I first took it apart over a year ago, I remember I did not see them at first.  When I removed those screws, the broiler came off without much resistance. 

It is a nice engine to have.  I hope you can find the problem and I hope my photos above will help.  If you have any other questions in taking it apart, please ask me.   For Electronic questions in the Engine, ask Marty above! 

Thanks for the pics.  I'm going to take another crack at it in the morning.  i removed many more screws but can't say I removed those...

I'll keep you all posted.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Reseat and reprogram your R2LC and do the aux-1-74.  If that does not help, replace your R2LC with a known good one.  Let us know what you see.  

Thanks Marty, will do.

FWIW, when I'm faced with a similar situation, I generally just loosen a bunch of the most likely screws and then wiggle the part.  If it's loose, then I can determine which screws I have to remove.  Many locomotives have similar mounting, a vast majority of the 3rd Rail steamers have three screws for instance. 

I have to say, having only two screws is one of the odder arrangements I've seen, typically they are secured by at least three or four.

kjstrains posted:

Ed,

Yes, I have the same model as you, 6-38094.  Lionel has only made this model once as far as I know which was around 2006. 

I need to clear up some confusion here including some things I said which were wrong.  I took mine apart over a year ago as shown in the photo above in this thread.  At that time it was the first time I took it apart so I took more screws out than needed because I did not know how take it apart. 

I took mine out of the box tonight and took it apart again and took some photos below. 

There is only 2 screws that hold the broiler to the frame as I have circled in the the photos.  I drew the circles to only make things understandable. 

The placement of the screws are up front are sort of way down within so you have to look for them.  When I first took it apart over a year ago, I remember I did not see them at first.  When I removed those screws, the broiler came off without much resistance. 

It is a nice engine to have.  I hope you can find the problem and I hope my photos above will help.  If you have any other questions in taking it apart, please ask me.   For Electronic questions in the Engine, ask Marty above! 

I just opened it up. It was a breeze thanks  to your tutorial and pics.  Thanks again. I'm also replacing the batting in the smoke unit. It was very charred and welded to the cloth shield  around the resistor.  My memory tells me I read you can/should remove that cover on the resistor.  I'm going to look around to confirm my memory...at 69, I on occasion misplace a memory....  

Yes, take the sleeve off carefully so as not to damage the resistor.

John, I had an 8ohm replacement so I took out the old one and put in the new one.  Fortunately, it was mounted with screws  and nuts, no soldering.  The resistor was as black as the Ace of Spades.  Unfortunately, after I removed and reseated the R2LC board and buttoned it up,  it still was dumb. Nice lights when power was added but it just sat there looking pretty.  No command or conventional operation. I ordered a replacement R2LC.  Hope that fixes the problem.

Thanks to all for the help.  Oh, Mike Reagan has a nice smoke unit tutorial on the YouTube:  https://youtu.be/7-DEZ6CErz0

Yep, the smoke unit rebuild includes enlarging the intake hole, removing the sleeve, as well as replacing the wick.  I don't replace the resistor unless it tests bad, I just use a Dremel wire wheel and lightly clean off most of the residue.  Whenever I'm into a locomotive that has the screws holding the resistor, I check the tightness, they're frequently loose, that is the source of many smoke problems.

I'm glad I didn't pitch the old resistor. I'll  clean it up and reuse. Thanks for the tip.  i didn't make the hole larger, probably should have done that but I'm hoping the new batting and resistor will give enough smoke to satisfy  me.  

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Reseat and reprogram your R2LC and do the aux-1-74.  If that does not help, replace your R2LC with a known good one.  Let us know what you see.  

Marty, I replaced the R2LC with a new board.  Same problem. it lights up upon power up but will not respond to any commands.  I opened up again and double checked connections, wires, etc. Everything  looked as it should. Somewhere I read it may be the program/run switch?  I have only used it maybe 4 times in the entire time I've owned the engine (6+ years).  Does such a switch just 'go bad'?  Or do you think it's something  else?

Jumper the leads on the switch, that will quickly tell you if the switch is bad.  Closed is program mode for the R2LC.

OK. I'll try that. Thanks.