How about the SD70MAC's? or maybe it's time for SD70ACe's.... Scott Mann 3rdRail?

BN and BNSF SD70MAC's.......................sweet!

Regards, 

Swafford

Lionel and MTH has saturated the market with SD70's and the like. I doubt Scott Mann would even think of doing it. 

The K-Line by Lionel SD70MAC/SD75M/SD75I is now the property of Kader/Bachmann, so they need to be contacted in Philadelphia to get them to make it. 

The K-Line version and Lionel versions are not the same.

The CN SD75I is not oversaturated as the MTH approximations are scarce.

Andrew

I agree with david1! The market is SATURATED with modern diesels, and Sunset/3rd Rail has many more potential sales for diesel models that have not yet been produced in 3RS. Models such as: FP7, FL9, FT (done CORRECTLY), and various passenger E unit models using the Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot new design power chassis, which came out with their new E7 models.

Personally, I will discourage Scott Mann from doing ANY modern diesels, until he "finishes" the older "historic" models, that have not yet been done correctly!

How about a horizontal drive for all the modern diesels , with appropriate side frames .

Overland would offer this in HO scale for other manufacturers bodies or shells.

A diesel that has not been done with see-through etched side panels in plastic is a FP45 or F45

Good Day Gentlemen,

The market maybe saturated with SD70MAC’s but not prototypical SD70MAC’s. The MTH SD70MAC truck placement is incorrect and the K-Line and Lionel SD70MAC’s have an anemic fuel tank. I still think there is a market for the prototypically correct SD75M, SD75I, SD70MAC, and SD70M.

My thinking on production runs, I would say that 3rdRail is very capable of offering diesel locomotives from the past and modern day diesel locomotives all in the same time period. More diesel locomotive projects give Mr. Mann more leverage with the model production companies.

Respectfully,

Frank Swafford         

I sure doubt THAT! Leverage with Chinese production companies is an oyymoron.

Good Day,

I respectfully disagree. New business is new business no matter where it is produced. Even the Chinese companies want new and more business. I would think the more projects you can bring to a model train manufacture the more leverage you would have in business negotiations.

Regards,

Frank Swafford 

I've got three of Mike's earlier 70's with the Eddie Bauer paint schemes, scale wheels, and Proto2. Not a lot of detail on them, but the real thing doesn't have a lot either. Utilitarian in looks, kinda' like a 4x4 Jeep with a huge motor.

Scott has already learned that you do not deal directly with Chinese production companies.  He deals only with Korean companies that deal with the Chinese production companies. 

And as the 3-rail IS saturated that would only leave 2-rail.  He has said repeatedly that the 3-rail Scale market is what makes his things doable.  I asked him about something like a joint venture with Lionel on their SD70Aces to do the 2-rail only and he pretty much said Lionel would laugh him out of the building or make it so prohibitively expensive as to not be feasible.

Also his schedule is pretty much booked up for the next 3 years with the stuff announced/in process and who knows what will happen by then.

And actually, as I understand the Asian business culture the more business you bring the more they think they own you.  Scott has said he has to take business away from the companies to get them to deliver stuff up to his standards.  The more he gives them sloppier they get.

The 70's that Frank proposed would be first choices for me... especially, a MAC and a SD75I. Fixed pilots; proper truck placement; accurate scale length for the MAC(74'0"); realistic vents for the AC equipment; precision, deep molded-in body details(deep enough to cast a bit of a shadow...especially, for the front door); realistic looking mu hoses and wipers...

Rick

Good Day Gentlemen,

Thank you for posting and providing your insight. Perhaps someday one of the model train companies will present the prototypically correct SD75M’s, SD75I’s, SD70MAC’s, and SD70M’s. Time will tell I just wish it was soon.  

To me the Santa Fe SD75M’s and BNSF SD70MAC’s are fantastic! Runners up, I like the SD70M’s with flared radiators too. I think the UP and NS has this model.

Best regards,

Frank Swafford  

Frank I agree with you the 70mac is a fabulous locomotive with a look that I love! 

Good luck

The only saturation I see is re-hashing of E8's, F3's, F7's, PA's, GG1's.

The K-Lionel SD75 was their Best model to date. Too bad they were ashamed of it. The only updating it needed was a scale fuel tank.

You will have more of a chance convincing a Railroad to Paint one in a Heritage scheme and then it will probably be made.

Can a guy get an SD45-2, F45, GP40X, GP50 or a B36-7 for a change???

 I'm not real picky about some of the mistakes of previous models as released. I did make the mistake of not ordering the MTH (executive) as I was mad that they weren't two rail versioned for me. I should have just got the executive scheme to have it. I also passed on a K-line as I felt it also would be too much work. Now, I'm sad that I did not get them.

 I just bought a used Conrail SD80Mac (from Lionel) that appears to have a small tank also? I just like the looks overall too much to care. I should have got the MTH version but again I slipped. I don't have the patience to wait years for perfect models. I have to buy what I can afford and make them work.

 I have several HO scaled SD70s from Athearn Genesis line that I love. History has showed me that I seem to be buying the same O scale choices that I made in HO. Being a modern fan, I want the executive, a warbonnet, and a CN version. My wallet does not always comply. Thanks for churning up the wants again Frank!!!

 Just playin' Frank. Keep posting these great pics. At least I can look at them on my computer until I get my hands on them. I had an Overland in HO once. Maybe someday, an O scale version.

 I would be shocked if Scott made this. I would order one just for saying thanks. Joe

Hey Joe, 

Thanks for play'n...............

When time permits, please post some videos of your trains. I really like your consists!

Best regards,

Frank 

Joe,

I bought the MTH Premier executive, didn't want to weight, either.

Not bad, but could be better. A solid performer, though. I really like that livery and the green trucks.

Something about that particular era of EMD body styling, that I really like. Maybe, it's their clean/uncluttered design?

As I said, my first choice...

Rick

Good Day Rick, 

The BN Executive color scheme on the SD70MAC's looked great! I think at one time BN had 600 to 800 SD70MAC's. I hope you enjoy the pictures.

Regards, 

Frank

Hi Frank,

My reference book states "BN's landmark 350-unit order became the foundation of a  BN/BNSF SD70MAC fleet that topped out at 786unit..."

It also states that, "BN 9400-9571 were the onlySD70MACs built without isolated cabs."

and that,

"In March 1995, beginning with BN9572, the isolated cab became standard on the SD70MAC."

Reference information supplied by: LOCOMOTIVES - The Modern Diesel & Electric Reference

by Greg McDonnell

BTW, I have seen, many, many times, both the executives and the heritage painted MACs; working BNSF's four unit coal trains, with two units at the front and two at the rear, coming from and going to Delta Port(Roberts Bank Superport), in southern British Columbia.

They're usually teamed up with GE motive power... ES44ACs and/or AC4400CWs.

Thanks for the pictures.

Rick

As somebody that has spent a fair amount of time working in China over the last five years, I think you are looking at the world through rose colored glasses.  Please read Scott Mann's threads on this forum, and when you are through with those, download the first 11 issues (IIRC) of "O Scale Trains", and read "Crapola from the Cupola" by John Smith, formerly of Pecos River Models.  Whether it is Chinese or Korean production companies, it is a very tough business, and for most companies, a sideline to other businesses. 

But nothing stopping you from taking a crack at it.  It all sounds so easy. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

As noted, would love to see some 70 series locos with updated details, fixed pilots and scale wheels.  Frank pictures are awesome and agree with Joe, at least we can see them in photos until they are released.  

Granted it's unlikely for MTH or Lionel to offer upgraded versions anytime soon, but I think it's more likely than 3rd Rail doing them?  Perhaps Bachmann will come through on the SD70/75 series?

Good Day,

I’d like to see 3rd Rail offer the EMD SD70MAC! 

I am ready to buy when they supply!   

Best Regards,

Swafford

Good Day Scott,

How about presenting a modern day diesel locomotive? Perhaps the SD70MAC, SD75 or SD70ACe.

Regards,

Swafford

Have any of you folks wanting a modern diesel, eMailed Scott directly?

 HW, yes I did a while back.

Frank, I'll up my order to 2, if that helps?

My vote is still for the SDP40 or FP45 from Scott.

SD70MAC - Noted. There seems to always be room for an improved model.

FP45 - Thinking about it.

The nice thing is, I know most of you.. and most of you understand the limitations of this business. If I can move enough of them, I will put them into production.

Cheers,

Scott Mann - China

Hi Scott, I would be in for a Conrail SD70MAC.

Please give consideration for hood units in the future.

Put me in!

Hey Joe,

What road name? CSX?

Regards,

Frank 

I am not familiar with the term “hood units”. What are the locomotive models that are examples of “hood units?

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Good Day,

Who would be a buyer if Scott Mann offered the SD70MAC and SD70M in 2-Rail and 3-Rail? I'd be a buyer for the BNSF and BN SD70MAC's

What road names? 

SD70MAC: CSX, BNSF, BN, Conrail  

SD70M with Flared Radiator: UP or NS 

Regards,

Frank

I'd go for an SD70 model in Conrail colors.

Norm

Here's an interesting twist- offer the 3-rail in 3RS with fixed pilots and full handrails. The "027" guys aren't ordering these anyway!! I'd be in for 2 UP (SD70M) 2 NS and 2 BNSF. Make these with the mentioned and its a deal. 

I just got home Frank. I would buy CSX, or BNSF, or UP, or NS, or CR, CN,.....ummmm..... I really like them all. How about the SusQ??

I am always a fan of who used each model the most and/or what I have seen. So CSX goes right by me and BNSF (in executive or speed lettered) is in all my books.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=2824460

NYSW 4050(SD70M)

The O-gauge/O-scale market is already full of SD60M/SD70M/SD70MAC manufactured in red China on behalf of Lionel and MTH. There is no space for another competitor to launch that kind of locomotive model to make some profit. The high tooling costs compared to the small market share wouldn't justify the investment.

Personally I tend to agree with that, i.e. no more "new" diesel models from Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot. I personally think that there would be a much bigger market for PROPERLY done CORRECT SCALE models of the EMD SD7/SD9.

O gauge market, yes, the 2 and 3-rail scale market? No.  The Lionel and MTH versions just suck so bad that anyone who cares about scale would not consider either.

And the same is true for the SD7/9.

For the Santa Fe Fans........................the ATSF SD75

Regards,

Swafford

Well I immensely dislike steam era locomotives, freight cars & transition era locomotives & am looking forward to seeing more scale-size SD70MAC in O-Scale.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Overland made the ATSF, BNSF, ON & CN SD75M, UP SD70M & CSX SD70MAC (both with slightly flared radiators) in O-Scale in 2005. I regret missing the opportunity to buy the CSX SD70MAC at that time. If I had known that Overland would be offering another run of the SD70ACe with the same models, I would have bought the SD70MAC instead of the SD70ACe.

I could be wrong but aren’t SD75M & SD70M, 2-feet shorter than the SD70MAC? I have never owned a Sunset / 3^rd Rail model, but I see on this forum that they pay a lot of attention to small details. So that could mean that they need to make models in 2 different lengths if they make SD70M (SD75M) & SD70MAC in the same run.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Naveen, you maybe right about the length. I got into a discussion with a guy about which type of cab must be used on each model. He insisted I chose the wrong cab type on one, and should have rounded the corners more. I have only photos to go by and no real experience. I do believe that each RR orders whatever cab is available that meets their wishes and they probably change during the run?

 I also notice rebuilds of engines where the cab gets swapped out for whatever reason, like accidents.

MAC's,

The EMD 70's model, that came with AC traction motors, was "THE" locomotive model I coveted!

With or without the isolated cab. These things oozed rail power.

That era of EMD locomotive traction, worked for me.

Rick

Good Day,

I'm in for the SD70MAC's and SD70M's with the flared radiators. In a 2nd production run .................ATSF SD75. If three cab numbers where offered I'd order three powered engines of each road name below.

BNSF (H2) SD70MAC

NS SD70M flared radiators 

ATSF SD75

Regards,

Swafford

Here is my vote: CN SD70i.  To my knowledge, this has NEVER been correctly done in 3 rail with a fixed pilot and horizontal motor:

2015 would be a great year for the SD70MAC's from Scott Mann!

Regards,

Swafford 

I agree with Hot Water, Id definitely purchase a set of scale SD7/9's in CNW. SD70MAC's are nice but there isnt anything special about them

The SD70 is a beautiful locomotive and personally, I would like to see allot more offerings in highly detailed SD70 macs. I have one SD70Ace in NS Penn Central livery by MTH. This is a Premier locomotive with all the detailing one might expect. Everything from moving fan blades to working ground lights etc, this locomotive is really fantastic. SD70 Macs are numerous, but really detailed ones are far and few in the 0 scale/gauge market.

I have a USA Trains G gauge rendering of the SD70 Mac. It is done in UP livery with the American Flag. Common theme, but really a first rate job by USAT on this particular locomotive. Anyway, I would like to see more done myself, but like one poster pointed out, not everyone cares about what I think should be produced/manufactured/created.

Pete

I disagree with this. They were the big change in modern diesels and started all the AC push, didn't they? (besides the SD60x test beds.)

Out of the Powder river coal basin or somethin' like that????

I will be the first to admit that I may have missed something on the way to catch the train. I have a couple of the early MTH SD-70s which are actually SD-60 bodies painted in the Executive BN Scheme, I checked the bodies against the plans and they are SD-60s not SD-70MACs. Now MTH has produced a newer SD-70M within the last couple of years or so. I purchased a body shell off of the Bay and checked it against scale drawings and it proved to be a SD-70M.

 My point is that if MTH or whoever produced a correct SD-70MAC in plastic would someone bring me up to speed on this offering. My current plan is to use the 60 shell and kit-bash an O Scale version according to plans and article published in RMC concerning an HO version.

   I would like to have BNSF SD-70MACs in all the different paint schemes, the prototypes were my favorite to operate. 

I believe Sunsets future market in plastic diesels will be more 2 rail, based on the FT production which was 400 2 rail and 50 3 rail. It will be interesting to see how the F7 run developes.Most of the 2nd and third generation diesels have already been made by Lionel and MTH in varing degrees of scale for the 3 rail market with limited 2 rail options on some diesels from MTH.In all likelyhood the 2 rail buyers choices will be the deciding in what models get built.JMO

This forum is active enough that you can get a really good indication of interest for such a project.  I have no idea what a SD70 MAC is, but I would be willing to bet money that if five hundred orders were placed with deposits, Scott would bump this project ahead of his planned 3-year production.  I bet he would do it if you simply put the deposits in an escrow account.

I think you are off to a good start - I bet there are more than ten of these spoken for above.

What I find very interesting with this thread, and its cousin over on the two rail forum is not one individual that professes to want SD70MACs / SD70IACs has bothered to pick up the phone and discuss the project with Scott Mann.  Better to have a hobby posting on OGR?

Is the SD70MAC and its successor the SD70IAC relevant.  Sure is, if you model BNSF.  Yea, CSX, TMF and Alaska ended up with a handful of them, but every other single mega railroad passed.  

So you may get about eight variations of paint schemes if you include the BN and BNSF variants.  I don't know specifically how many paint schemes there are on these, as I really don't care.  When I see these things, all I get is Glendive MT nightmares of freezing my arse off, and Alliance flashbacks of Carhenge (I think I still have a pink t-shirt from that visit). 

So Scott will be tooling in plastic for a one hit wonder, and the tooling cost for a narrow carbody unit, with the detail that you guys profess to want, is going to be WAY higher than any F unit.  All the fans will need to be individual moldings / castings.  I'm sure that you guys will want see thru screens by the radiator hatch, DB intake, inverters etc.  Then there are individual handrails, front pilot details, truck details, etc.  Want a flared rad model too?  More cost, different tooling for the cooling hatch. 

Given the cost of the F units, I'd say these would easily fetch over $1,000.00.  

In my opinion, if Scott wanted to do a modern hood unit, he should do the GP40-2 (if you consider 1972 and later as modern ).  Nobody has done that model in O scale, there would be a plethora of road names, and enough variants such as Canadian cabs to further heighten the interest.

What would be interesting is if Scott actually did test the waters and offered the SD70MAC.  Like Bob2 said, ya got maybe 10 orders already, only 490 to go, assuming that a 500 unit production run would get 'er done.  I don't think Scott would get the pre-orders, but I'd sure like to be proven wrong.  

There definitely is a strong market for 1980s to modern era motive power and equipment.  The stuff sells VERY well in HO.  Transition era MP&E is still very popular in both HO and O, but with every passing day, the market gets smaller and smaller.   However, the market in O is SO small, that even if the market keeps expanding, it is still a VERY small market. 

So guys, pick up the phone, talk to Scott, and see what he says.  After all, it is HIS capital at risk.  At least then you will know if this whole wish is a granfalloon or not (thanks MWB for that word, learned something out of the 2 rail thread ).

Regards,

GNNPNUT

Stuck in 1952 in HO, 1953 in O, nuthin' newer than a GP7 or GP9 respectively for me.     

Good Day, I sent an inquiry to Scott this afternoon and below is his reply. I also suggested the GP40-2 which I have campaigned for several years.

Regards,

Frank

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you Frank.

I will consider your ideas. Right now I have several Cab units I am looking to make. Then maybe some more modern.

Scott Mann