How can I help promote O scale 2 rail

Pat,

Got a question about O scale kings-well a couple upon reflection.

I started on their months back but can't seem to post on their anymore,I'm just sent back to this forum. Can you tell me what's wrong?

Thanks,

Al Hummel

Here are a few ideas:

1.  Join the NMRA and become active in your local division.  This will give you a platform on which to promote O scale.

2.  Write articles and post photos of your layout's progress in the local NMRA division's magazine or newsletter.  These articles don't have to be elaborate.  It could be similar to the "What I did on the layout today" blog on this forum.  I think that the one thing that the O scale hobby is missing is a well known author writing consistently about O scale.  The other scales have people such as Tony Koester always writing about HO.  The O scale hobby is largely unknown because their are no authors.  (If anyone knows one, please name him or her.)  Submit articles to OGR and other national publications.  

3.  Invite NMRA friends to your layout to help build and operate it.  I am in O gauge (3-rail) but I help friends build their HO and N layouts.  Join your local OP-Sig group.  Operate on their layouts but make sure that they come to run on your layout also.  A properly designed shelf layout can provide lots of operation.  

4.  Give clinics on O gauge modeling at your local NMRA meets.  Display O gauge models.

5.  Find other O scale modelers in your area.  There are some but they tend to remain invisible.  Sometimes you can find them by posting a sign at a local hobby shop or advertising on Craig's list.   Get them to build a simple modular layout that can be displayed at train shows.  The G gauge community has many modular layouts with almost none for O scale.

6.  You said that there are no O scale clubs in your area.  Form a club.  Build a modern layout with all the bells and whistles.  By a modern club I mean a layout with walk around design, DCC, etc.  The two O scales clubs in my area were built before DCC and in my opinion need major upgrades to make them attractive to modern modelers.

7.   Attend the NMRA national conventions and visit all the O scale layouts that are on the tour.  Talk to other O scale people about promoting the hobby.

8.  I have never seen anything the "O Scale Kings" has done to promote the hobby.  Maybe you should join and become active in the organization and get it going.   

Promoting O scale will take a lot of effort but it can be done.  You don't have to be retired but you do need to be active.

Joe

I notice you live in Centreville. There are a number of O scale modelers with large layouts that do round robin operating sessions on the eastern shore.

If you are going to the Brass Expo show in Timonium and/or the Strasburg show in two weeks stop at the Sunset Models table and I can give you further information.

Back in the 80's I dabbled with the Baltimore N-Trak guys until the kids came along. Is there an equivalent O-Trak or better yet Frem-O. If not there should be.

I'll swing by the Sunset booth...thanks ...I planning both shows.

Nice O scale 2 rail modular setup for shows   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFm5LI9uW_E

Does the NMRA have a program where they visit schools to promote the hobby?  I work at a local (actually 2) golf course and our city has a pro that goes into schools to get the kids interested in golf, plus the PGA has a kids golf program.  I would think one of the first questions to the kids after showing them the basics would be "What you like to see model trains do?".

As far as grownups, I honestly think O scale (2 and 3-rail) would benefit if they promoted prototypical operations more.

Additionally, O scale vendors at shows need to lower their prices on old and new equipment, the best way to get someone new into the hobby is to make some well-made, HO quality, pieces affordable.

At while they're at it, be a salesman, not a crotchety old coot who appears to be interested only in giving everyone the stink eye like they're all thieves.  Heck, I bet there's a box load of items on just about every table that could be given away free to help promote the hobby.

You mean like THIS?  Too many in the O scale tables and areas...

LOL, I think you pictured it

If they're "just toys" as we've been told so many times before, they need to sell them that way and not like they're selling body parts.

Other than at shows or thru school programs, I don't see how to promote O scale to future modelers or modelers in other scales.

I think the main difference I see in O scale and the other scales at train shows is what I kind of mentioned in the other post, how things are displayed.

How many tables of HO and N scale items do we see in crates/boxes?  Most HO/N tables I see are well stacked and displayed, with new equipment.  Most O scale tables offer items made last century, old and dusty collections.  It's time folks let go of this old stuff at rock-bottom prices.

Pat,

you'll find Bob from Sunset to be a valuable resource in your search to connect with other O Scalers. There is a lot to be said for the fellowship of modeling with others.

Our own experience at the club level is we have ramped up our public activities over the past 5 years a tremendous amount, largely through open houses. This brings in hundred's of new and returning faces each year. We actually have acquired new members from these public events. Whether they are skilled modelers or not, what they bring is enthusiasm for the hobby. Which is really all that matters, skills can be learned and applied. In addition, these events also heighten the awareness of model trains, and O scale in particular, in the surrounding communities.

Good luck.

I think the O scale community will need to find an enthusiastic author along the lines of the late Frank Ellison and Lorrel Joiner.  Both of these authors promoted O scale by writing frequent articles about their railroads.  

There are many really good O scale railroads.  How often do you see an article about one of them?  How often do you see a blog about one of them?  Who is blogging about his or her railroad on this forum?  OGR had an outstanding series on the Buckeye Railroad a few years back.  Perhaps OGR can persuade the owner to write an update.  (I don't recall the owner's name.)

The HO and N communities have authors who show case their work almost every month in some publication.  You can almost name them - Tony Koester's Nickel Plate, Allen McCelland's V&O, Bruce Chubb's Sunset Valley, Pat Lana's Crandic, etc.  

The 3-rail community has its authors also:  Bill Bramlage, Jim Barrett, Don McCuaig, Eliot Scher, Jim Policastro, etc., are just a few.  

Someone needs to start writing and blogging about O scale.

We have a magazine for that purpose; getting the vast majority of people to write is harder than prying a penny from Scrooge's fingers.

Feel free to volunteer to be an author! 

OGR does claim to want O Scale 2-rail articles.  Back when Myron Biggar ran the show I wrote and published many articles - they do not accept my articles any more.  I have not bothered, for years.

My motivation for writing has followed my motivation for scratch-building: I am doing other things these days.  I never wrote to promote O Scale; In fact I am not at all interested in promoting.  I like the uniqueness of being in a sparsely populated end of the model train hobby.  If I had the skills and patience, I would probably go into that even more esoteric area called Proto-48.

I have never quite figured out why it is so important for our species that everyone think alike.

Joe, You have " O Scale Trains" Magazine and the internet version "O scale resource" both are 2 rail O.

I have heard of O Scale Trains.  I have the current issue sitting in front of me.  Brian Scace is doing an excellent job.  I really like Jim DeBruin's "O Scale Archeology" series.  The problem with this magazine is that it reaches a very small group of modelers.  The O scale community is going to have get published in magazines with a wider audience if it is going to thrive.  Frank Ellison and Lorel Joiner were wrote for major model train publications.  Their articles were seen by folks in many scales.  

I am not the person to write about O scale because (1) I don't have the time and (2) I am a 3-rail modeler.   I have been posting a blog about the G&O garden railroad on this forum for a couple of years.  That is my writing contribution as for now.

Here is the link:  https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t.../the-gandamp-o-story

I fully realize that most people are not going to write and most people could care less about promoting anything.  I was the publisher / editor of monthly magazine for a volunteer organization in the distant past.  I am fully aware of the challenge of getting articles.

All I am saying is that if someone wants to promote O scale then they are going to have to make the effort to publish, blog or otherwise make this segment of the much more visible than it is now.

Joe 

Can't disagree, but that's easier said than done.  I've barely gotten an article into RMC but once now and that's probably the most broad audience publication that actually was publishing an O scale article now and again. 

Internet forums are really no way to 'change' anything, as magazines still factor greatly in the hobby (and probably will for a long time). But anything will stay a certain way until several people do otherwise. In other words, MR's forum will stay HO until a lot of people start posting on other scales.

I'd say getting article written in mainstream hobby magazines like MR and RMC are the best you can do. Otherwise, you're just acting locally with a very small influence that won't spread much beyond driving distance to you.

After reading and contemplating the comments on this topic my thinking is perhaps we should define what is meant by promoting 2 rail O scale and what the desired result(s) would be.

Does promoting mean we want to see lower prices? Not gonna happen.

Does it mean pushing importers / manufacturers to make more product available?

My opinion is that there is a great amount of 2 rail scale available - steam,diesel,electric locos, freight and passenger equipment, track and turnouts,

power supplies and systems, buildings, scenery, parts, etc. I got my first piece of 2 rail O scale in 1955 , and I can vouch for many O scalers that we never expected to have the volume and variety of offerings we have today.

Does promoting O scale mean attempting to get folks new to model railroading to go to 2 rail O ?

For someone new to model trains they probably will start "small" in both size of layout and financial investment. HO is a better option for them. If they decide to go O gauge they may choose 15 or 27 inch radius curves and will be limited for the most part to MTH and LIonel non scale 3 rail offerings. O is not "twice" the size of HO. Spatially, it is about 7+ times the size of HO since we see the cubed model - not a linear model - HO being 1/87 and O being 1/48 scale.

The current state of O gauge (meaning 3 rail) commenced in the early 1990's when Lionel did the scale sized PRR S2 and Weaver did the scale sized PRR M1 and GG1. My observation of the growth of O gauge in the last few decades is that many folks saw the more scale sized offerings of Lionel and MTH and developed renewed interest in the train hobby.

From what I have read in publications such as OGR and from my personal experience of talking to hundreds (thousands?) of folks stopping at the Sunset/3rd Rail display at York these folks have zero interest in O scale 2 rail. They want to recapture childhood memories with more scale oriented models and those childhood memories are geared to 3 rail track.

I can appreciate Mr Pat Kelly's (original poster) desire to promote 2 rail O scale. Personally, I think 2 rail O scale is doing quite well judging from the success at Sunset Models / Golden Gate Depot. 450 FT diesel units produced - 50 in 3 rail and 400 in 2 rail.

Does promoting 2 rail O scale mean attempting to reach a person moving from HO/N to O to go 2 rail rather than 3? That would seem to be the best opportunity to bring a new inductee in to the 2 rail world.

I think promoting 2 rail O also means making this segment of the hobby much more visible than it is today by doing some of the things that I already mentioned on my earlier posts in this thread.  A person will not move to a scale that they have never seen and don't know that it exists.

I don't know who bought all of 3rd Rail's 2 rail FTs.  I haven't seen them running on any layout in person, on this forum or in magazine photos.  Unfortunately, much 2 rail equipment is bought for display and is never run or seen again.  The market will be gone when the collectors are gone.  For the record - I bought four 3-rail FL9s from 3rd Rail and I run them all the time.

Joe 

I always read and hear of the model train hobby demise. It seems to Ebb and flow with tide of demographics. As for the collectors market, there will always be collectors, whether it be model trains ,cars, coins, motor oil cans, colonial chairs you name it people collect it. There are Boom times for every hobby and down times. It's all good with me whether you run 2 rail, 3 rail, any scale; whatever floats your boat.

Joe,

I agree the market will be substantially diminished when the collectors are gone. Same as Model T and Model A Fords. Same as it will be in 3 rail when the 3 railers are gone. Standard gauge is also a victim of this. Prices are down drastically from even a decade or two ago.

I would concur that 2 rail probably has a higher percentage of collectors than 3 rail has although a good number of Sunset/3rd rail's 3 rail customers I talk to do not have operating layouts. That is surprising to me.

 Did you ever consider 2 rail for your own layout?

Add a third rail

Joe,

This last statement about when the collectors are gone so will the scale. This keeps me hedging about getting into O scale. When the older modelers pass on then what happens to the Scale? Is the lack of knowledge about O scale so poor that manufacturers won't want to continue putting money into it?

Al Hummel

I would like to see the promoting of O Scale be applied to growing in a 2-Rail club layout segment, which seems to be a segment of O Scale that is on a steady decline.  I see O Scale akin to a type of Live Steam, if you will, in that you really almost can’t build a respectable home layout, especially in the southern half of the country, with no basements to speak of.  Unless, of course, you are fortunate enough to have an out-building or take over half the living space of your house (your significant other might have other ideas ) then building a home O Scale layout is very, very impractical these days, especially in the land of the concrete slabs...   Case in point is the recent posting on asking about Hobby Shops in Houston (4^th largest city in the country) that might stock O Scale stuff and the response being zero in addition to less than a handful of 2-Rail O Scale layouts in the area, more like only two or three, for a population that boasts roughly 6.5 million people.

Also note that the younger generation is more prone to move about the country as well, so it is highly unlikely that they are going to embrace O Scale due to the build-up and tear down of layout as they move from place-to-place.  One or more HO clubs are in almost every city with a population of 100,000 or more so naturally you at least have an outlet to run your trains if you are an HO modeler.  O Scale not so much…  And I think running O Scale trains is where O Scale really outshines the smaller scales; due to their size and mass they are impressive as all “getout” when in motion, they don’t derail (I use this term figuratively), and the addition of DCC makes walk-around control coupled with today’s onboard sound systems feel like you are along side a real train.  Even the addition of 2-rail modular groups would be a nice start to fill this widening gap of 2-Rail O Scale clubs and still provide an outlet to get your "train on".

Scott K.

Austin, TX

Alan,

I don't believe there is any lack of knowledge about O scale 2 rail - at least not in the 2 rail community. In 3 rail the major players are Lionel, MTH, Atlas, and to a lesser degree Weaver, 3rd Rail, and Golden Gate.

Most outside of the 2 rail community are unaware of names such as Signature Switch. O Scale Turnouts, Irish Tracklayer, Des Plaines, San Juan, Key, Kohs, Calumet, Yoder, Rails Unlimited, Stevenson, East Gary,  Protocraft, PSC, Midwest Model Works, Mullet River, and the list goes on. Yet, these are familiar names to us in 2 rail just as Lionel and MTH are to 3 railers.

As MWB stated in an earlier post, 2 railers are familiar with publications such as OSN  and O Scale Resource and many of the aforementioned companies advertise in them.

I believe an issue at play here is the fact that many O gaugers are members of the TCA and attend the York meets where 3 rail dominates the O gauge offerings

although some TCA members are 2 railers.

 2 rail has its own cadre of shows, and every 2 rail show promoter always attempts to have 3 railers attend to become familiar with some of the non Lionel and MTH offerings. I estimate that 15 - 20 percent of the attendees at 2 rail shows are 3 rail folks coming to purchase parts and detail accessories not seen at 3 rail shows.

So, I don't think there is a lack of knowledge about O scale. It is just that 3 railers are going to read and muse about what is offered in their venue and we in 2 rail do the same and are happy with where we are.

If you were to ask many 2 railers what the latest 3 rail offerings are from LIonel and MTH many would say " I don't know" - the same answer a 3 railer would give about 2 rail offerings.

To me, 3 railers don't think much about 2 rail offerings - no different than 2 railers not thinking much about 3 rail offerings.

Scott,

One big exception for Texas & O 2 rail. That would be Lorell Joiners Great Southern RR of San Antonio, TX who passed away several years ago.  I never saw the layout in person but was amazed by the size and magnificence which graced the pages of Model Railroad magazines and seen on the PBS TV network "Tracks Ahead".

 This keeps me hedging about getting into O scale. When the older modelers pass on then what happens to the Scale?

Not sure where you are heading with that.  O Scale is light years ahead of where it was in 1970, but value of older stuff is more or less quiescent.  You would do well to choose HO, where everything is to your liking.  It will not get much better in 2-rail O Scale - it is already pretty spectacular.

I feel bad that the only 2 articles I've done were published in an online magazine as 3-rail when I could have easily submitted them to a hardcopy magazine as 2-rail.  All it would have taken was to leave the 2-rail trucks on or put them on to take photos (I had 2-rail trucks for both cars at the time).

My articles may not rank up there with the pros, but the mags usually "doctor" them up a bit anyway, editing text and even adding photos they may have of the prototype.

One thing I see as an obstacle in article writing is the internet.  How many of us have posted photos of our work here only to think later that it would have made a good article in a mag, but then it can't be used once it's been shown?  Most mags I've seen have a rule against using previously "published" data.  Is that a hard rule or can it be stepped around in this day of online publishing?

OR, what if I build something from an already published article, but in a different scale than the original?  I'm thinking of things like trackside buildings/structures in HO that I would like to build in O.

for the 2 rail Sunset FT units, one club member has 4 of them and runs them all the time.

speaking from the experience of talking to 100's of visitors to our open houses over the past 5 years, I am struck by how many of them ARE model railroaders, but in HO scale. When they walk into the layout room you can watch their jaws drop as they take in the mass and scope of O scale. Many of them start to become converts then and there. As I mentioned before we gained new members, who had either been 3 railers or HO modelers before. Others are regular folks who may have had trains in their youth and again are struck by the sheer scale of it all and want to jump in. Our newest member is one of those kinds of people.

Both Bobs are right. There has never been a better time to be a 2 rail O scale modeler with all the offerings available. He is also correct that many in 3 rail are completely unaware of the scope and variety of items available to them beyond the big 3.

so as has been asked. just what is meant by promoting 2 rail O scale? to the O gauge community at large or the public at large? 2 rail is alive, well & healthy and will remain so for quite some time. in time there are those who will change from 3 to 2 rails. a lot will not. in the end, if we all do what we can to expose 2 rail to newcomers, the segment will continue to grow.

Talk to me, Bob,

OSN has been gone a decade and OST has been publishing like clock-work for a decade,

Martin,

I meant to say OST - not OSN. Do I owe you a pair of couplers as remorse payment?

We'll take it under advisement - generally it's a pound of flesh,

The same thing was stated back in the 80's in early(ish) N scale with collectors hoarding all the Kadee (now Micro Train) car releases.  Out of the factory and into a display case or worse...storage or safe deposit box and never out of the rarefied air of the packaging, never to see the light of day. Well, you can see how that turned out and it's not the doom and gloom predicted.

I always look to You tube to see if anyone has posted any of their 2 rail layouts there to enjoy. I see there just isn't enough posting there of this seg. of the hobby to try and get improved interest. When one looks at a film one gets a bunch of snips next to it that will increase ones viewing pleasure. So more published may create an interest?

Or as they say in the academic world, publish or perish

Actually, that's been updated to publish & perish.

...or more accurately, perish while publishing.

video you say? here is a recent clip done by the local cable TV channel:

it was quite helpful attracting visitors.