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I am modifying the Lionel Industrial Smokestack 14142 to sit atop a coke oven from Scenic Express (see photo).

  Smokestack modification

I am considering boring out the center of the oven and inserting flickering red light/s inside to mimic an active oven, much like the yellow lights flicker atop the smokestack mimicking a fire below.  I think this is possible electrically, but not sure what I need.  Any suggestions on how to do this?  What electrical componenst do I need?

FYI, this unit will reside next to the Lionel coal ramp and loader as well as the magnetic cranes loading scrap metal onto a barge.  Could be a fun scene with workers shoving coal and metal into the oven.

Thanks,

Michael

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  • Smokestack modification
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yes all you need in ;ight emitting diodes, or called led,s they are very chheep and they come in many sizes and you can purchase the flickerijg ones in red green yellow practacially any colr you want and need very little dc to run them. thats what gunnrunner john usues and i as well you can buy them from almost any suppler probably only 15 to 20 cents per piece!

Alan

https://www.bing.com/images/se...2+lead&FORM=IGRE

check out this web sight for instance!

 https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.htm...+lights&_sacat=0

Last edited by Alan Mancus

I use a combination of red, orange, and yellow flickering bulbs to create a really cool flickering firebox effect.  The combination of four independent flickering bulbs all going really looks very realistic.  Here's how I do it.

AC Flickering Firebox

 

If anyone wants to duplicate this, the Gerber files are attached, just send them to OSH Park and you can get PCB's made for a couple bucks total.

LED Flickering Firebox AC Gerber.zip

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Has anyone ever tried replacing an existing firebox glow bulb with a flickering LED? I've been tempted to do this on my MTH steamers that just glow. My concerns though are it may cause all the rest of the bulbs on the engine to be unstable in their lighting and I believe the PS-2 voltage to the firebox is only 1.5 volts which may be too low for a flickering LED. Is it do-able?

Dave Z,

I have not done the flickering install on the engine you mention but I have used the Evan's Designs flickering lights in a Flyonel Northern. These LEDs are set in a cluster of three LEDs and they have several different sizes of the leds in clusters so you can get the sets to fit almost any situation, these can be powered by ac or dc current, I used track power on mine.  I just hot glued these to the fire box area behind the motor. I did use the low temp hot glue and these worked fine.

When I pasted the Evans page I saw it was not as easy to read as on their website, best to go there and read.

Ray

https://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/fire-led.html

Safely add Fire to your Scenes! Fire! --

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Last edited by Rayin"S"

Hi all,

Since I began this thread, I'll post an update. I am grateful to all who posted great info on the application of LEDs to model railroading...which is all new to me.  I decided to go with the Fire Kit from Evan's Designs (Model Trains Software) as suggested by some on this thread.  I know this is more expensive than other sources, but it seemed to be a good starting point for my beginning level of expertise here.  FYI, I had a question on my order, and Shelly Jamison, one of the owners, immediately replied.  She altered the website on this product to avoid some confusion, and this already appears in the excerpt posted above by Ray.  Nice attention and action.

Once I get this unit installed in the modified smokestack/coke oven combo, I'll post the results...hopefully with a fun operating structure.

Michael

Dave Zucal posted:

Has anyone ever tried replacing an existing firebox glow bulb with a flickering LED? I've been tempted to do this on my MTH steamers that just glow. My concerns though are it may cause all the rest of the bulbs on the engine to be unstable in their lighting and I believe the PS-2 voltage to the firebox is only 1.5 volts which may be too low for a flickering LED. Is it do-able?

As GRJ says the flickering LEDs you get on eBay for a couple of pennies each require a stable DC voltage.  That's because there is an electronic circuit built-in to the LED that generates "random" pulses to drive the LED and hence create the flickering effect. 

flicker-chip

You need a handful of components to regulate the PS2 chopped lamp voltage into a stable DC voltage.  It's not that such a circuit is expensive ($1-2 in parts) but requires soldering, wiring tiny components, installation into a typically cramped space.  To wit, GRJ's tiny board also uses a voltage regulator to provide stable DC to the flickering LEDs!

As a historical note, the first "generation" of tealights from places like Dollar Tree had a circuit board with a small IC chip (the black blob on the circuit board) that generated the flickering pulses to drive a regular (non-flickering) LED.   Then "they" figured out how to integrate the flickering circuit right into the LED itself as shown above.  Now these tealights are just a 3V coin battery, an on-off switch, and the flickering LED.

flickering tealight evolution

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  • flicker-chip
  • flickering tealight evolution
Last edited by stan2004

Thanks Ray, John and Stan. Nothing seems to come easy in our train world. I was hoping these new flickering LED's would be a plug and play item for our existing DC off the board. John, you have done a great job with your passenger car LED kits. Have you considered producing and selling your fire box board? I would be in the market for about 10.

Truthfully Dave, it takes a bit of care to solder the flickering LED's in, and frequently you lose one or two to the soldering heat, so I opted to just use them in my upgrades.  I'm going to try building a few with the iron turned way down, and maybe with some low temperature solder.  I'd like to see if I could build them without the extra work of replacing and LED or two.

If you turn that PCB, I think you have some real-estate on the back side to add some kind of electronic trigger to activate the flickering action.  That is, I don't think you have enough capacitance on board to directly drive the board from the narrow-pulsing PS2 lamp signal.  Specifically, in the case of PS2, I figure you'd want to turn on flicker at the same time as, say, the Cab Lights, Headlights, or whatever.  So the board would be powered by track AC or even DC-PV...and then the pulsed lamp signal would trigger the actual flickering via some 10 cent trigger circuit.  Now one could argue a prototype firebox would be active hours or days before and after an operating session so flicker might be visible even when engine is not ON!

Anyway, I'm imagining other applications where flicker is intermittently active and activated for brief periods by an external control signal that may not have enough current to drive the entire circuit.  This trigger signal might, for example, be an Arduino output pin.  Layout applications might include, say, welder flicker in an engine shop. 

Here's an application from years ago before the benefit of low-cost flickering LEDs.  In fact I used xmas string incandescent bulbs driven by a custom pulsing circuit.  If I had a flickering circuit board that could be triggered by a low-current control signal, I would probably have used that.  Note the coincidence that, like your 4 LEDs, 4 incandescent bulbs were needed/used to give the "variety" of flame simulation.

flicker using xmas bulbs and pulsing circuit

 

The video also illustrates how sound goes hand in hand with the "visual" animation.  Fires are noisy affairs!

To wit, the old-school way for fire/flame simulation was to hook an incandescent bulb to the speaker of an AM radio tuned to an unused station with just the "static" crackling sound.  The bulb would flicker and the crackling sound provided a reasonable facsimile of a fire.

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  • flicker using xmas bulbs and pulsing circuit
Last edited by stan2004

  I've used the dull edge of a knife to heat sink near the pastic while keeping the led close to the board when needed. 

  Flashers Ive cobbled from $1 store bicycle saftey reflectors with button cells & leds inside (chip driven). In my fav. case I jumped off the rectification /regulation off a tmcc fan driven smoke unit, grabbing some of it's board fed power and knocking voltage down with a diode. The fan motor doesn't seem to mind sharing and the regulation circuitry didn't seem to mind a bit either .  These were a very bright purple led that ate up cells in a day or so (3 or 4 lights).

Some chip drives offer various flash patterns to choose from. Sometimes the chip may remember settings, others forget on power down. So you may want to test it first too.

Hi all,

For anyone interested, here is a rough idea of the results from the modifications I made to the smokestack/coke oven combo incorporating the flickering red/orange lights I purchased from Evans Designs.  Thanks again for the very helpful suggestions posted on this thread. 

Layout still under construction, but this shows the concept I was trying to achieve. Needs more work with surrounding structures, but I thought it gets at what I hoped to accomplish.

Happy Holidays to all!

Michael

 

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Smokestack coke oven combo

Are the 2 tethers of fixed-length?  If there's no need to "spool" the tethers, I'd think you could run a pair of thin gauge wire down the tethers to flickering LEDs in each balloon.  Then, near the motor shaft you can use a $1 SPDT lever switch to steer power to one or the other balloon.  Or if the eccentric has a dead-zone where neither balloon moves, perhaps use 2 SPST lever switches aligned to a cam on the motor shaft to fire only when the corresponding balloon is rising.

As shown in my video, if you are willing to pony up another $5-10, you can add the sound of the burner which really adds a nice touch in my opinion.  If your balloons are far enough apart, you can even use 2 speakers with the appropriate one playing the burner sound which would give a nice directional effect to enhance the illusion.

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