K-Line 0-72 Switches

2 transformers but they are synced. All the other locations where I go from block to block have no real spark just at the crossovers

Andy

> On Nov 11, 2014, at 11:53 PM, O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

As John said, check the transformer wiring to each loop. Reverse the wiring on one transformer if you are not sure, take the locomotive off the track, set both transformers to a similar voltage, and momentarily jump the insulated joint between the center rails where the switches meet with a wire. There should be a very small spark, or no spark at all. If there is a large spark, reverse the wiring again and check again. If there is still a large spark, reverse the AC plug on one transformer, and do the tests again until you get no spark.

 

Larry

Thank you for the analysis and advice sorry I didn't respond quicker but I had to work this morning. As far is the polarity goes as far as I know I'm all set because The blocks each have MTH bricks with polarized plugs. However as one wag said don't assume anything check it out. My grandson and I have checked the center rail issue actually that was one of the first things I looked at but obviously we need to check it again.
My layout is in my sons basement about 15 minutes away I will get over there this afternoon and provide you with the results of my tests



> On Nov 12, 2014, at 12:29 AM, O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

I will check where the spark is coming from but I know both the center and at least one of the outer rails has been abused both of them with burn marks

Andy

> On Nov 11, 2014, at 11:53 PM, O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

You may have to add a small piece of straight track(about one to two inches) like I do with Gargraves switches when used back to back and provide outside rail power to the straight track. It could be the non-derailing pieces that are causing the sparks and by adding a small section of straight track between the two switches it may smooth things out.

 

Lee Fritz

Do you have the ground from each transformer connected to each other? I am assuming each loop is controlled by a differen tranformer/brick.

Ed Kazarian

That is not a good assumption at all, as there are reports of MTH bricks being out of phase with each other.

 

Power up the layout, and check the voltage with a meter at the junction on each side of the center rail fiber pin.

ADCX How would I change the phasing with polarized plugs the only go in one
way. Not sure what the meter test you suggested will show.


In a message dated 11/12/2014 12:17:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
alerts@hoop.la writes:

I bought some of the very first production of these switches, and I had sparks and other problems.

 

I found that one of the rails near the frog was touching the frog when it should not have, as I recall, the short section of rail is held down by small nuts on the back, I used a set of needlenose to get the nut off, removed the rail, filed it down some, and put it back. First short fixed.

 

But still more shorts, when the train is running. I finally figured out that the center roller of certain engines were touching the "rail not being used" at the same time that a flange of the same engine was touching this rail. The solution was to put a piece of electrical tape over that rail. Sorry I am not at home to take a picture.

 

Fast forward some 6-8 years, I bought some more K-Line O72 from a forum member, and his showed up with clear tape over the same spot! I would admit the clear tape looks much better.

 

I do my own modification to the switch. I connect each of the three center rails using two pieces of black 14 gauge solid THHN wire. I remove the SuperSnap stuff, I cut out a piece of plastic, sand off the black oxide on the newly exposed underside, then go to town with my Hakko soldering iron. You need to have some experience with soldering for this.

 

Another alternative is Ross Rossplate tinplate switches; they come in both O72 and #4.

ekaz, each loop now has a separate transformer. I star wired the whole
layout with no common wire with the intent of eventually running my MTH locos
remotely


In a message dated 11/12/2014 12:05:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,
alerts@hoop.la writes:

If the bricks are in phase, there will be zero, or negligible voltage difference between the center rails of your two loops. If they are out of phase, the difference(meter reading) will be 34-38 volts(which is where your big sparking and pitting is coming from).

The easy way to reverse the polarity of the plug. Both male blades are the same, so that they can be inserted in the outlet either way.

 

Larry

Not on the ones you linked to, they're polarized in and out:

 

 

 

I'm not sure I know exactly haw things are wired up there, but when I had a similar problem I ran a wire between the common terminal on each power source and everything worked better.

 

Ed

I will use a jumper and try that this afternoon

Andy

> On Nov 12, 2014, at 2:06 PM, O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

I used K-Line shadow rail O-72 switches in my new layout.  After installation I had sparking and short circuits with some engines.  Traced it to a points blade.  Placed black electrical tape over it and problem solved.

 

Since changed out all mainline ones  to Ross tinplate and relegated the K-Lines to yard duty.

Thank you all for responding to my dilemma with the arcing on my K line
switches. I spent a couple hours implementing some of your suggestions and I
wish I could report success but that is not the case. Here's what I did
(sorry about the length of this response probably using more words than I
need to describe what I did)
I have two crossovers the carry trains from one set of tracks to another
each being full circles. I concentrated on the one that that was arcing
the worst. I was working alone so I used my MTH Speeder as my test vehicle.
I began by running it through the switches and experienced arcing on all
three rails on both switch machines.
I wanted to start by checking the polarity so used a jumper on the center
rail between the two switches - experienced arcing. I figured maybe I had
the problem figured out - different polarity so tried a different MTH
brick. Interestingly the jumper no longer arced but the sparks created by the
speeder running over it were just as bad. I then jumped the common side
of both transformers with no positive results.
I decided to backtrack and went back to the original brick - the arcing
from the jumper did not reappear but speeder arcing of course did. Can't
figure that one out. I went through a variety of combinations of other bricks
and Lionel transformer where I could rotate the plug. Same results in all
cases no sparks from jumper but plenty from speeder. After my grandson
finished his homework he came down and we went through all the same testing
using a Lionel post war SW and a Williams Great Northern electric. Same
results with more sparking from SW and less the Williams. I have trouble
thinking it is a polarity problem.
A couple of you have suggested that it's the switches with possible
mechanical and electrical fixes. I have some additional K-Line replica switches
ordered from RMT. Friday I'm going to take a couple from the layout yard
and switch them out with the troublesome crossover switches replacing the
yard switches with my RMT order. I will report the results.


In a message dated 11/12/2014 12:35:59 P.M. Central Standard Time,
alerts@hoop.la writes: