K Line Cruise Question

I am assuming that the motors are in the "A" units and the "B" unit is the unpowered one.  Since you didn't mention trying just the two "A" units together just speculating that the cruise electronics require all four motors to be connected for proper feedback.  Another thought would be to set the "steps" to a higher value for smoother running.  Probably not an issue but wonder if it's possible for the two powered units to be set with different "step" values and when they are connected together the higher value is used.  My K-line steam engines ran smoother at higher "step" values and the default is the lowest setting, I think that was just 32 steps.

Those sets just have bare motors in the slave units, all the logic is in the lead unit. 

John, Not true.  I upgraded a K-Line ABA with cruise.  They used a 10 pin harness and the Lead had a K-Line Cruise board with ver 4 and the trail A had cruise board vers 1.0 with wires solder on to slave it to the lead A.  I never really traced all the wires, but both power units had K-Line Cruise motor driver boards installed.

So it is very likely that K-line may have different firmware in the LEad to compensate for the slave board.  G

I haven't seen that configuration, interesting.  Usually in the K-Line multi-unit stuff I just find bare motors in the trail units.

Cruise versions or the non cruise?  It was interesting seeing it.  G

I know the non-cruise ones are bare, I've had three different sets, and I still have the E8's.  All of them had no logic in the trailing units.  They do have some logic to control the smoke units, but nothing for the motors. 

I would swear I saw a cruise one with a similar configuration, but maybe I'm hallucinating.   Do these have an encoder on the trailing unit motor?

Yes it did, along with a 2 wire connection out of the 4 pin header to the lead cruise board via the harness.  G

Never seen one with an encoder in the slave, obviously my education is not complete.

GGG is correct.  The KLine AA (ABA) sets *always* had a cruise in both lead and trailing locos, with encoders.  The trailing loco had the cruise slaved to the lead loco. 

The OP original question:  The cruise is tuned to ABA, so it will run best with the "load" of the B unit.  If you want to Run it as AA, then add some rolling stock, it may settle it down.

At very slow speeds there are some ugly things going on with multiple self-locking worm gears that can't always be solved.  I have an MTH diesel set that bucks and jerks below 4 smph.  It's noticeable up to 7 smph when running light.  The flywheels on the motors are only the size of two Kennedy half-dollars stacked together.

Lionel did a good thing with their Legacy upgrades to "LionDrive."  A single large motor would be best, but back-drivable gears are your friend

Jon,  Could you hold a Technician training Class?  I would be happy to fly out to CA to be educated on the ins and outs of the electronics.   Each year that goes by without a course and new electronic introduced most likely results in stuff forgotten and lost!

I would sign a non disclosure!  G

PICS of the Slave A unit under the hood.

K-2570-3601 B unit with smoke      K-25702  AA  with smoke and cruise.

Are the electronics part of the cruise?

Soo Line

Soo Line,

This is the K-Line "Motor Driver Board" with integrated cruise control.  Its the same board as seen in your third and fourth pictures.

Curious, what is the revision number under the "MDK-090" in lower right corner of the board?

GGG, very complimentary if you!  Thanks.  I could consider a training class, however I think I learn more from folks like you than I even know!    That is what makes this forum so great, the sharing of knowledge. 

I do know a lot about the Lionel tech, I designed quite a bit of the circuitry and wrote the control software in our current production locos.  (Rudy does the sounds) Although I am fortunate to have a fantastic team, and they design many products too - ZWL, LCS, op cars, accessories to name a few.

I would be glad to have you come by and spend an afternoon answering questions, if you are ever in SF bay area look us up.  And you are right, the information will get lost if not shared.

Gregg

MDK - 090

REV.D

Dave

Thank You for all the replies and to you Jon (SantaFeFan) for clearing this up............now we know this set does run as it should as a full ABA unit with respect to cruise.

Dave

That's the same as on all the boards I have, most have a sticker with "Ver 3.0" on the bottom.  I remember reading of problems with earlier versions but don't know the details. I was just wondering if the revision code on your boards was different.   Anyone know a way to determine version number without looking on the bottom of the board?

SantaFeFan,

I would show up for a class if ever was offered too!  It's been many years since Mike R. last provided information for the first generation of Legacy.  Since then nothing and lots of exciting changes and improvements have happened.

Jim

I have the Reading f-3's and K-line sent me free replacement Ver. 3.0 boards for the 1.0 shortly before they went under.  Fixed all the jerking problems at low speed.  I miss K-line!

Soo, Yes that is the cruise.  Gregg, mine had a 4.0Ver in the lead and 1.0 in the Trail as stated earlier in this post.  I do believe 4.0 was the latest.  I have that in my Allegheny.  G

Thanks Jon.  G