Legacy and accessories

DavidR posted:

If I'm reading the forum posts correctly, the track voltage with Legacy controller (18VAC) is too high for Lionel accessories (12-14VAC). Does this mean that accessories must be wired to a separate power supply and supply buss? If so, is there a recommended power supply? I had heard the suggestion that a CW40 would work, but it doesn't seem (to me) to have enough power.

I'm just helping my grandson get started in O-scale, and don't want to have electrical problems.

Thanks for your help.

i'm not sure you are correct because most all of lionels accessories are "plug and play" which means they except the voltage to be 18.

however if you do wire the accessories separate the cw40 with 40 watts will run plenty of accessories as long as that is all it is running.

i'm wondering if you are confusing the legacy command system with power.

Most accessories want a lower voltage than the track. As you said 12-14. A separate supply would be a good idea. You’ll probably want a little more beef than a 40 watt depending on the accessories. 80 watts would be good for most again depending on the accessories. 

Many accessories work best at a specific voltage, or a small range of voltage. These voltages can range from 10 to 18.  This is why some modelers run 2 - 3 accessory bus wires each with a different voltage on it, then attach the accessory to the bus that works best. 

A good rebuilt ZW or KW can provide multiple, easily adjustable voltage outputs and are a good choice for accessories.

DAVIDR,

 Ron is correct, for many years I used an old KW for accessory power, they work great are very safe and  you can adjust the needed voltage with the handles (2 Channels) as you continue to add your accessories. The old KW's are not very expensive, you can usually pick one up, even rebuilt, for around $80.00  You can also use the old ZW with (4 working Channels) for just over $100.00.  

PCRR/Dave

Wonder if Lionel makes their Plug and Play accessories so they can handle a higher voltage, or does the plug and play track have a voltage regulator built into it to lower the voltage?

Thank you for the input. It appears that if an accessory will work at 18VAC, I just use track power, and it it wants 12VAC I run a separate 12VAC accessory bus.

Rather that us a power pack (refurbished or new) for the 12VAC, I believe I could just use a 110VAC - 12VAC transformer and a fuse or circuit breaker, right? $10 bucks in parts.

Any  VAC Transformer of significant voltage will work. Just set it and forget it.

Plug and play accessories were designed for exactly what you are doing. Just plug into the FasTrack and you are good to go.  No complicated wiring for your grandson.

I run Legacy engines with a ZWL.  However, I also have a number of post war accessories - light towers, water towers, rotating beacon towers.  I have found that those like 8-9 volts.  Putting more than that to the rotating beacon towers makes the beacon spin too fast.  I have a few CW80's that allow me to set their accessory output to a constant voltage.

One option to consider is a mth z4000 transformer.  It includes lower voltage outputs for switches and accessories and is reasonably priced. If you have a small to med size layout, this one transformer can do it all.

Rod Miller, I looked up some of the Lionel Plug-Expand-Play accessories, and their instruction manuals say you need separate accessory power to use with Legacy. They show the wiring - which is good.

Paolo, thank you; I'll take a look at that.

DavidR posted:

Rod Miller, I looked up some of the Lionel Plug-Expand-Play accessories, and their instruction manuals say you need separate accessory power to use with Legacy. They show the wiring - which is good.

Paolo, thank you; I'll take a look at that.

I did not read what you said with this plug and play accessory

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...50PnPAutoGateman.pdf

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...emantoAccActPack.pdf

what we need is for lionel to come here and set the record straight!

BigDodge, look at page 10 and 11 of the Automatic Gateman manual (your link) - Legacy wiring requiring a "separate accessory transformer" for TMCC or Legacy operation.

DavidR posted:

BigDodge, look at page 10 and 11 of the Automatic Gateman manual (your link) - Legacy wiring requiring a "separate accessory transformer" for TMCC or Legacy operation.

that is for operating the accessory with the handheld.

you don't want handheld operation just plug and play.

Thank you for all of the feedback. I did ask Lionel directly about accessory power (specifically the uncoupling track) and here is the answer I got: "You would exceed the available amperage if you hook up the uncoupling track to the CW-80."

So it would seem I do need a separate accessory power bus to operate the uncoupling track.

I didn't reread the entire post again. But when we talking about accessories?? When did it become an uncoupling track?   And they said you couldn't run one (or more) uncoupling tracks from the CW 80?? Maybe I should reread the post, got really don't feel like it. 😁

I'm sorry - I skipped a couple of steps. I went to the Lionel article (http://articles.lionel.com/pro...ries-vs-track-power/ ) and found

• Accessories work better. With their own power supply line, accessories will not speed up, brighten or dim as you change train speed. They won’t turn off or flicker as you change direction either.
• Accessories will last longer. By using a recommended 14 volts fixed AC power source, light bulbs and motors will not operate at the full extent of the 18 volts they will receive from full track power. So not only will they operate consistently, you’re also prolonging their life.

That led me to ask Lionel about the uncoupling track, which was what I posted.

From all I have read, it seems like all accessories (even the plug - expand - play ones) are happier with their own 14VAC buss. The trick is finding the current for each accessory so the total current drain (uncoupling while lights are on) isn't exceeded.

Lionel doesn't make this easy.

It can be tricky getting the right mixture. Right now my layout and stuff is in storage while it waits for a new home. But when it was up and running I had  several VAC Transformers under the layout powering accessories.   Most of the work being done by a ZW.  Four variable outputs give you quite a variety.  You can set them to match the accessories and items they were meant to power at a voltage that they will be happy with.