Link Couplers

All original link coupler weights after the first year brass ones are steel. Some reproductions may be aluminum or other metal, but I've never seen them.

Tin

Tom,

Can you share with us what your results are with the Kadee couplers and the magnets? I have been wanting to start what you have been doing.

Ray

Ray,

I posted a long reply several hours ago, however I received an automatic response that said the moderator would have to approve it?  There was a page for a magnet catalog included.

Is that illegal?  I hope someone lets me know what’s going on…

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Sometimes, if your post has certain key words in it, especially if these key words reference other magazines or companies, the system will flag it and the moderators will have to read and approve it before it gets posted.

At least, that's what I think happened to one of my posts when I mentioned a cover shot on another magazine and included the name of the magazine. Once the moderator read my post, it was allowed to appear.

I think there is a sensitivity around not bashing other magazines or companies.

Hi Ray,

Yes, I want to share the info because I could use more input… I’m only partially there and I have learned that I don’t know much about magnets at all. 

First a website:  www.kjmagnetics.com   These people have the most amazing collection of neodymium magnets.  They are available in all sorts of shapes sizes and strengths.  And the disclaimer— I have no affiliation with them… I’m just a customer.

Next, I recently received my copy of Great Model Railroads and there is a side bar of how one modeler used magnets to uncouple his H0 Kadee couplers.  So I thought I’d try it in S, Hi-rail (that explains the link couplers).  What the picture showed was two magnets glued to a tie, each one close to a rail.

It does work for Kadee #5s very well.  There is one 802 that kind of has problems (the trip pin is too long), but I think more experimenting will solve that.  Link couplers are another issue.  Brass weighted links don’t have a problem but a single metal one does.  By single I mean a disconnected -- not coupled -- one.  When the links are coupled together the magnet is not an issue.  But alone, you can stop a train when the magnet grabs the link.

You need to know the north/south pole of magnets you want to use.  I have had the best results with a K&J B882:

• Dimensions: 1/2" x 1/8" x 1/8" thick
• Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004" x ±0.004"
• Material: NdFeB, Grade N42
• Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
• Magnetization Direction: Thru Thickness
• Weight: 0.0339 oz. (0.960 g)
• Pull Force, Case 1: 2.84 lbs
• Pull Force, Case 2: 5.09 lbs
• Surface Field: 4871 Gauss
• Max Operating Temp: 176ºF (80ºC)
• Brmax: 13,200 Gauss
• BHmax: 42 MGOe

These small, thin blocks are useful for anything from slot cars to sensor applications. A great size!

Price: $0.43

The magnets lay parallel to the rail, I use north side up, about .375” between them.  That leaves about .125” from the magnet to the rail like a flange way.  Measured form the bottom of the tie, the magnets are mounted about 1/16” up.  You have a ½” long target for the couplers.   I find it a bit small and I am going to order some BX022 because they are 1” long.

I was hoping Ed L would add something to this, because he uses #5s and some sort of beefed up magnet.  I have had no luck experimenting with that concept.

If I can’t solve the metal weigh link coupler problem, Paul Vaughn ( pev.sn3@gmail.com ) has a retractable magnet solution that might work.

I think that is about it.  Please let us know your results.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Hi Tom,

I am also a customer of K&G. I have experimented trying to use the in Gilbert Flyer steam engines for the chuff switch when adding ERR sound units to the locos. I saw on an S gauge chat site where someone was trying these for uncoupling in HO. I am glad to hear that they are being played with in S. I am looking forward to any more updates on this project.

Thank you for the answer.

Ray

>> I saw on an S gauge chat site where someone was trying these for uncoupling in HO. I am glad to hear that they are being played with in S. I am looking forward to any more updates on this project.

There is a fellow by the name of Bob Nicholson over on the S SIG forum who uses small magnets on his S layout with Kadee couplers.  He has been doing it for years and likes them very much.  I am sure he is willing to share his techniques, etc. upon request.  You will have to register for the forum (free, just like here) in order to post questions and comments.  Here is the home page for the S SIG:

http://sscale.org/ 

Click on "S Scale Forum" in the upper right hand corner.

Personally, I use Kadee O scale large flat magnets installed beneath the rails to actuate Kadee HO couplers on S scale rolling stock.  Talk about a Tower of Babble -- a multi-scale project for sure.  Works fine for me, but you have to install them before laying the track.  I suspect these small magnets are an excellent way to go when installing an uncoupling "device" after the track has been laid. 

Have fun.....Ed L.

Ed,

Thank you for the lead and the link.

Ray

"Personally, I use Kadee O scale large flat magnets installed beneath the rails to actuate Kadee HO couplers on S scale rolling stock."

Hi Ed,

I had a look at the Kadee website and they say the 308 magnet is for use under the rail in both H0 and 0.  Well I have tried this and at first it worked… sort of.  However, I recently revisited the 308 and found it didn’t work.  I placed it directly under the ties with the metal plate Kadee includes.  I even played with bending the #5’s trip pin, but still no luck.

Are you doing something different like placing it under the rails rather than the ties?  This experience is what prompted me to play with some other magnets.

Still curious,

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom......

I see you are attempting to reach Bob Nicholson via the Yahoo Group.  Unfortunately, that will not be workable since Bob has left the Yahoo folks and is now commenting on the S SIG forum at  http://sscale.org/  as mentioned in my earlier post.  Give the S SIG a try.  It will not hurt.  Folks there do not bite.

Regarding my use of Kadee magnets/couplers, I place the large flat magnet beneath the rails after removing the ties from Shinohara flex track.  The magnet is up against the bottom of the rails and is not beneath the ties.  I use two magnets plus one intensifier plate all held in place with Liquid Nails or some other caulk-like substance. Yes, a cavity must be carved out beneath the track to hold the magnets and intensifier plate since all that stuff is thicker than the tie height.

I use Kadee #5 HO couplers without any modifications to the glad hand.  They are mounted on S scale rolling stock at the usual height above the rails.  The couplers snap open a bit more actively than ever before.  Delayed uncoupling works fine.  Everything is cool. 

If you use Kadee S scale couplers, the longer glad hand might snap a bit too vigorously.  A bit of experimentation might be advisable to obtain the optimum degree of action.

Hope this helps.  Give it a try.   Ed L.

Hi Ed,

Yes, you reply is very helpful and, of course, begs a number of questions that I will try to figure out.  The first thing I want to look at is to see if I can identify the poles of the magnet.  That would help me in positioning my smaller magnets.

Why I want to use the magnets from K & J is I am cheap.  That also one of the reasons I decided against 208s to begin with.  With the 308 being basically $5 each and needing two per location, I’m afraid I’ll have to find another route.  For me, that’s most of the fun of these trains anyway… I like to tinker with them.

I only use #5s (or a member of that large family) when I convert a coupler.  The only 802 I have is by default of the front of a SHS 2-8-0 and it will be gone someday.  However as I mentioned before, I also allow Flyer link couplers and they might prove a problem with the magnets.  But for me that’s just something more to explore.

As for the S SIG… actually I have found they do bite – big time.  Just a mention of Hi-rail or Flyer and one is immediately dumped on.  It’s too bad, but I guess all of the model train world is fractured along similar lines.

Thank you for your help, I will be playing with magnets again soon,

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom....

I am sorry that the S SIG caused you some grief.  Being a scale-oriented organization, I would have hoped they would politely direct AF questions to the various AF Yahoo Groups or the OGR list here. 

However, not all is lost.  Asking about Kadee couplers and small magnets is a topic well suited to scale S.  It should not bother anyone over there.  After all, ACGilbert never made or sold Kadee couplers or small magnets.  Also, once you join you can send private emails to any other member if you desire.  You could converse directly with Bob Nicholson that way without ever posting anything.

What I know about Bob's situation is that he uses small craft magnets obtained from a Michael's store.  I do not think he knows the manufacturer or the part number, but he sure would know the size and placement information.  He does use HO Kadee couplers.  Using the K&J web site (thank you very much for that), you can probably figure out which magnet Bob is using.

Here is a listing of all the various sizes made by K&J:

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/magnetsummary.asp 

As usual, I hope this helps.  I actually have one place on my layout where I want remote uncoupling and the track is already laid and ballasted.  (Call me dumb.)  Thus, I decided to break the bank and order some BX022 magnets to see how they work.  If you want to wait a week or two, I could let you know how they work out.  There are so many sizes and strengths and shapes available, it is hard to tell which might be the best.

Since you have read the sidebar article in the current GREAT MODEL RAILROADS 2015, perhaps you could share the suggestions made by the author.  That might get us off to a good start.

Keep in mind that the rail height, magnet strength, magnet placement, coupler trip pin height, wheel material, etc. will all have some effect on the end results.  I use only non-magnetic wheels, but I sort of suspect a steel wheel might get sucked into the magnet and louse up the operation.  Then again, I could be wrong.  Only one way to find out -- experimentation !! 

Once you have the optimum answer for your particular situation, it would be best to standardize on all the different variables.  At least, that is what I hope to do around here.

Good luck.....Ed L.

"I see you are attempting to reach Bob Nicholson via the Yahoo Group.  Unfortunately, that will not be workable since Bob has left the Yahoo folks and is now commenting on the S SIG forum at  http://sscale.org/  as mentioned in my earlier post.  Give the S SIG a try.  It will not hurt.  Folks there do not bite."

   Hi Ed, Does one have to sign in to see the forum on the S Sig site? When I click forum on the header there are only two posts there dated 2011 or something like that so I always thought the site discussion forum was dead :>    Regards, DaveB

>>  Hi Ed, Does one have to sign in to see the forum on the S Sig site?

Yes -- sort of.  One has to register (just like here) to become active on the S SIG forum.  That is a one-time task.  Signing in is only needed if you do not access the forum every day.  If, like me, you check in once in the morning and once in the evening, there is no need to ever sign in again.  Otherwise, you will have to sign in to post or read messages on the S SIG web site.  Any time you do not access the S SIG forum for 24 hours, signing in is required.

You can arrange for a daily digest to be sent to your email address.  Then, there is no need to sign in just to lurk.  Daily, weekly or monthly digests are possible.  You can even specify the time of day you want your digest created.  East coast fellows arise early.  Californians wake up later.

You can send messages privately to any other S SIG member.  Like here at the OGR, it is all free.  Voluntary donations are accepted via the Home Page, but it is totally voluntary.  No pressure.  No advertising.  Just S info and photos of all kinds.

When I click forum on the header there are only two posts there dated 2011 or something like that

Are you here:  http://sscale.org/   or somewhere else?  I suspect you are elsewhere.  There are nearly 350 members with 2,100+ postings grouped into about 400 topics neatly arranged in an index. 

so I always thought the site discussion forum was dead Regards, DaveB

Not dead at all.  Be aware that it is a scale S-oriented forum and so questions/comments about AF or high-rail are considered off topic.  The S SIG definition of "scale" means compliant with NMRA track and wheel standards.  But with a little advance thought, many questions can be posed in a way that do not involve AF specifically.  The recent postings about Kadee couplers and magnets is a good example of that.   Other similar examples are photos and discussion about Lionel/AF offerings which comply with NMRA scale standards.  Thus, the recent L/AF modern diesels with scale wheels are considered on topic. 

All in all, the S SIG is a good source of modeling information of most any kind.  Electronics, scenery, layout planning, product reviews/announcements, layout visits, modeling articles, etc., etc.  The only hurdle is to keep the conversations germane to scale modeling as opposed to emphasizing tinplate products.

Since it is free, no reason not to give it a try.  If it you don't like it, you can depart at any time.  There are no handcuffs.

Enjoy.......Ed L.

Hi Ed,

In fairness to the S SIG let me say that my bad experiences and plenty of observations were/are on the S-scale Yahoo group.  However that said, I will say that when the group split into the S SIG, it was the hardcore who left.  Hence, with it being the same cast of characters, I would expect no difference.

The side bar in GMR 2014 shows two cube magnets spaced apart like I described earlier.  I tried the cubes (mine are N52) and they worked very well.  My only problem with them is the size of the ‘target’… a 1/8” cube is difficult to land on.  I have some ½” x ½” x 1/8” N42s (B822 from K&J) on hand and they are much easier to land on, but still small.  My big breakthrough came in learning that it is the poles of the magnet which must oriented in the up/down position.  The K&J site is a wealth of information which is why I said I don’t know very much about magnets before.

So, I’m going to order a range of rectangles varying from 1” to 2” long (all N42s) and do some experimenting with the longer target length.  Unfortunately, some of the longer magnets will be wider, ¼”, which I’m not sure if it will have an impact or not.  But on the other hand the K&J FAQ states:

26. Will neodymium magnets lose strength if they are held in repelling or attracting positions for a long time?
In most applications, the answer is simply "no". If the magnets will be exposed to higher temperatures while in repelling applications, the answer is "possibly". The exact answer is a bit too complicated for a FAQ answer, and requires specifics about the application.

So I might be able to stack my B822s end to end if they are glued in place.  More fun for today…

I did have the metal drivers of a Rex 2-6-0 grab the magnets, but once I glued the magnet in place the Rex doesn’t seem affected by the field even at the slowest speeds.  I am very pleased that the magnets don’t pull at metal axles and trucks like the Kadee 308s seem to do, but I have yet to try a longer magnet.  As I mentioned before, my problem is with an uncoupled link coupler with a metal weight – it isn’t pretty.  It will stop a train at low speeds.

"S"tring boB did get back to me, including some pictures.  His magnets appear to be 1” x ¼” x 1/8”.  I’m going to guess they are not neodymium because they are from his local hardware store.

Time to play with magnets,

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

>>  In fairness to the S SIG let me say that my bad experiences and plenty of observations were/are on the S-scale Yahoo group.  However that said, I will say that when the group split into the S SIG, it was the hardcore who left.  Hence, with it being the same cast of characters, I would expect no difference.

Tom....

I think you just hit the nail on the head -- almost.  Many of the S SIG folks are those who departed the S-scale Yahoo Group for reasons similar to what you have experienced.  They just packed up their bags and went off to start a new group more to their liking. 

The important thing, in my mind at least, is to distinguish between the two groups.  They are different and unrelated.  Some S folks are active in both groups while others choose one group or the other.  Others hang out here at OGR. 

All the groups have different areas of specialization, but that is pretty common.  Otherwise there would be one huge group for all of model railroading.  Personally, I find the micro-specialization to be an advantage, but I might be in the minority with that thinking.

Anyway, good luck with the magnet experiments.

Cheers......Ed L.