Lionel 2333 vs. 2343 pulling power

I'd go with the 2343 as far as pulling power, mine pulled 77 freight cars in 1990 and still runs great (go to the 3:00 time).

https://youtu.be/WauqkeV8mEQ

The 2333 and 2343 are very similar mechanically, but the 2343 has some minor tweaks/upgrades in the power train and has magnatraction. Thus, I would, for pulling power and performance, go with then 2343. That is not to say the 2333 is a poor locomotive.

I have two 2343's and one original 2333 from 1948.   I have loved the warbonnet engines since I was a little kid.

This 2333 has two motors, magnetraction, and has been pulling like a champ for 50+ years.

This 2343 is the Lionel repro with the black grabirons, silver trucks, top screens, clear portholes, magnetraction. and is completely and pristinely gorgeous.  Two motors.  You gotta love Neil Young.

This 2343 has none of the above, one motor.   By far the worst puller, but, still pretty friggin' good.

All are great.  My experience is the 2333, 1948, is the best puller, and has been for a real long time.....These three are conventional. 

I also have a SF MTH F-3 ABA, and a Lionel LCP SF FT that are command controlled.   Both of those guys are pulling 20 plus cars without issue.  Hard to compare pulling power, but the command speed is (IMO) the best way to go.

Not sure if this helps you...my two cents.

Jerry 

Looks like @JerryG has quite the collection. Unfortunately, his 2333 is modified as an original 2333 would not have magnatraction from the factory - I would wager that it has the guts of an original 2343 or similar. His original 2343 with a single motor is also a modification as it would have 2 horizontal motors with magnatraction from the factory. The re-issue 2343 does not compare to the original postwar items in question.

One takeaway here would be to not simply just rely upon the number board on the shell, but to understand what is under the hood so to say.

Thinking he may have meant to say 2243. That was the single motor version.

JerryG posted:

I have two 2343's and one original 2333 from 1948.   I have loved the warbonnet engines since I was a little kid.

This 2333 has two motors, magnetraction, and has been pulling like a champ for 50+ years.

This 2343 is the Lionel repro with the black grabirons, silver trucks, top screens, clear portholes, magnetraction. and is completely and pristinely gorgeous.  Two motors.  You gotta love Neil Young.

This 2343 has none of the above, one motor.   By far the worst puller, but, still pretty friggin' good.

All are great.  My experience is the 2333, 1948, is the best puller, and has been for a real long time.....These three are conventional. 

I also have a SF MTH F-3 ABA, and a Lionel LCP SF FT that are command controlled.   Both of those guys are pulling 20 plus cars without issue.  Hard to compare pulling power, but the command speed is (IMO) the best way to go.

Not sure if this helps you...my two cents.

Jerry 

Post war 2343 and 2333 both had dual motors. I'm not sure about the remakes but the postwar both have dual motors. The main difference form what I can see is one has magnatraction (2343 ) and one doesn't. in fact the 2343 was the upgrade of the 2333. There's some other difference like the horns mounting.

The 2333 had horizontal motors and a lower gear ratio than the later vertical motored engines (2383).  Slower top speed but more torque.  They do make more noise.  

John, the 2243 & 2383 were the only vertical motored ATSF F3s.

I've got the 2333 and also a dual vertical motor Santa Fe, which I thought was a 2353.  I stand corrected.  (it's been a while since I've had it out)  As I recall, the 2333 was the better puller.  Have to dig them out some day and try a tug of war.  

Although essentially identical, I have seen many reports over the past few months that the 2333 is faster and pulls better than the MagneTraction 2343. I like my early 2333 set so much that I have forgotten if my 2343s run any better or worse... it's been 15-20 years since they've been on the track.

Maybe I didn't phrase the question clearly but I just wanted to know if a 2333 is capable of pulling two dummy F3 B units, a dummy F3 A unit (ABBA F3s), and 6 modern 2500 series style aluminium passenger cars. I'd like to assemble that train behind a 2333.

I already have a 2343 that pulls the same type of train that I want the 2333 to pull (I've attached a picture). Basically I want two similar trains, one pulled by the 2343 and one by the 2333, if the 2333 is capable of pulling the train. I'd like to know if it can before I buy the 2333.

The 2333 and 2343 weigh essentially the same and the two engines have equal pulling power on level track.  

Magna traction gives the 2343 the ability to pull a heavy train up a grade while the 2333, having no magna traction, will slip pulling the same load up a grade.

As I have mentioned here on the forum before, put a Rail Sounds B Unit behind any Lionel F3  with horizontal motors and you get a  very unique sound.

 Thanks 

Richard

Since I've got no grades the 2333 should work out fine with aluminum passenger cars.

As far as Railsounds B units go I've done that already for my 2343, as you can see in the above video. I'll buy another one for the 2333.

Speaking of pulling power & gearing. Anyone know the gear ratios of PW 2343 vs FM 2331? They say the FM2331 is the most powerful. My '52 2343 ABBA unit will pull more heavy cars than the FM 2331 but the 2331 is faster. Rob

It's quite possible the 2343 is heavier than the 2331, resulting in more draw-bar pull.  I know the horizontal motor F3s (2343) are heavier than the vertical motor F3s (2383).

I'm nearly positive the A carbodies were heavier than a FMTM.  But many that I ran in my youth were modded and "dummy units" never got ran. All the FMs were dual motor, the carbodies as well. Most Bs had one, some had two. (two ZW's hot rodded in series) Triple headed FMs outpulled the 6motor carbodies.

The horizontal motor F3 weighs ~5.3 lbs and the PW FM TM weighs ~5.0 lbs.

I've done lots of pullbar testing, and have seen a huge variation between between the same model of train - like 30-50%. A lot of it comes down to the condition of the wheels.

In my experience, the 2343 (horizontal motor (steeper gear ratio), Magnetraction), pulls a bit better than the FM TM, particularly that the lower gear ratio allows for better modulation of speed (mitigates wheel slippage).