Lionel announces limited edition York boxcar.

MartyE posted:

Only 50 being made. Not a bad looking car. 

Looks nice, but at only 50 units, I'm guessing there will be people with sleeping bags at the nearest door on Wednesday night to line up to get one.

I'll just resign myself to the fact that I won't be able to obtain one, unless I buy one in 5-10 years when no one cares about them anymore.

Thanks for posting, though.  I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but only 50 units is nuts for something like this.  Will tick off more people than not, I think.

-Dave

How much to be the first kid in your neighborhood to have one? $$

This would be a excellent idea if all the money for 50 cars goes to charity of some kind.

Sell them for couple hundred or more a pop.

That could be a big deal for York I think.

Larry

PS. They are out of my league but, I'm just saying.

Creating a collectors item. No thanks. Lionel has been good at doing that for years . Some of them collector item you can't give away now. Just like most convention cars.

This would be a excellent idea if all the money for 50 cars goes to charity of some kind.

Like the TCA.

I won't be looking for either but still a nice looking car. No details yet on where or how to obtain one. 

So orange hall is the place...how is still a mystery. 

Maybe hourly give aways  at the meet. If so hope I win one so I can sell it and get something I would want.

It  doesn't look particularly "YORKISH" to me.

Richard

Another Warbonnet and Hudson?

Richard Gonzales posted:

It  doesn't look particularly "YORKISH" to me.

Richard

What does York look like?

Guess they have to raise some capital to pay their York expenses unless they bring their John's bargain store items again to York. I think it was an embarrassment last time selling direct there for such a coveted train manufacturer.

The York boxcar is the opposite and an excellent idea. Looks like a very nicely detailed boxcar.

Would you put it in the collector's category, souvenir category, or both? I suppose it could also be a self-esteem booster for those who have a  sense of "specialness" owning something few others have.

ogaugeguy posted:

Would you put it in the collector's category, souvenir category, or both? I suppose it's a self-esteem booster appealing to those folks who enjoy a sense of "specialness" by having something few others have.

It will be very very Special, until they do another one in the Fall, then two every year. 

Would you put it in the collector's category, souvenir category, or both? I suppose it could also be a self-esteem booster for those who have a  sense of "specialness" owning something few others have.

I don't see it as a Toy Train collector's item.
In my experience, collectors don't go for items that are made in artificially low numbers.
Which is not to say that there aren't people who would enjoy owning one of these boxcars. I bet they will sell out quickly. Enjoy!

MartyE posted:

Richard Gonzales posted:

It  doesn't look particularly "YORKISH" to me.

Richard

What does York look like?

How about the fairgrounds???

I Wouldn't have it even if Lionel sprinkled it with dust from Madison Hardware.

Richard

If I get one. I get one, if not... no big deal.  But I will try. 

IMHO, more a souvenir than a collectible  but then who am I to make that call. Certainly not a knowledgeable collector but rather a guy with too many of the Polar Express Toy Fair boxcars who instead of selling them off a few years back when there was a fair profit to be made from them instead decided to hold on to them hoping the ever increasing popularity of The Polar Express line would boost their value but in reality has seen their $$$ value fall to much less than it was just a few years ago.

I would be willing to. Pay $3.00 for one.  However, two for $5.00 seems more reasonable.

I hope they don't use that corrosive lubricant on these. That will surely kill the resale value.

Don't worry, in sure somebody will get one than put it on his table for 10x the price with a "rare collectables"  sign on it.

Yup. Limited edition,"Built to order" All Lionel"s hype for everyone to run out and buy one before their all gone! Brilliant! 

Maybe they made a mistake and meant 500. I don't even like the car. Back in 1994 at the national in York lionel made 100 Clinchfield hoppers. I won the one at my table. I thought WOW I have a rare car. Now they go for $10.-$20.  

There's an old saying, If it is limited edition it will never be worth anything.

Im thinking these are raffle items...maybe?  50 is a ridiculously low number for York.  Unless they are testing the waters to see how much interest there is.  Nice looking boxcar but I'm not camping out for one.  BigRail

eddie g posted:

Maybe they made a mistake and meant 500. ...

Nope... look very closely at the enlarged box car graphic.  The text on the door reads "1 of 50".

I do give Lionel a ton of credit for having the gumption to continue pumping out these "one off" limited edition products, which they hope will generate a buying frenzy in the marketplace.  Unfortunately, almost everybody here has pretty much walked this road before... and knows the routine by now.  Yes... there will be a buying frenzy, folks will trip over themselves to get one (or two), and there will undoubtedly be a premium associated with the boxcar for a year or two.  Original owners will at least have that satisfaction... however short-lived that may be.

In later years, they won't be able to give this boxcar away... be it 1 of 50, 1 of 500, or 1 of whatever.  When you've traveled this merry-go-round before, ya just know how it's all gonna go down before the first boxcar is even sold, raffled off, or whatever.

David 

Collectable? Not sure. I have 3 of the 125 cars that KLINE made for our AOL online York BBQ's. T@hat was Maury's and Bob Grubba's donation to the 8th semi-annual event which you used to have at York. Allan Miller can attest to our BBQ's. 

One went on ebay years ago for $90 but that was years ago. I tried selling one at a few shows for $50, maybe here on OGR with NO interest.

Collectable? I would not lose sleep over it nor even waste my time at York waiting on a line to buy one of the 50. Lionel has a good idea selling this unique car but that is where it ends.

But yes, I agree with someone here that it will be on someone's table for 10x the price or on the fleebay.

So many people here would complain about be given $1000 in $1 bills.

MartyE posted:

Only 50 being made. Not a bad looking car. 

A train friend of mine from Michigan will be looking for those York cars;  he has three regular customers willing to pay top dollar for these limited editions, let the chase begin.

MartyE posted:

So many people here would complain about be given $1000 in $1 bills.

Welcome to the forum! 

C W Burfle posted:

In my experience, collectors don't go for items made in artificially low numbers.  Which is not to say that there aren't people who would enjoy owning one of these boxcars.

I bet they will sell out quickly.

Quickly?    Sadly, they will be virtually unattainable.

RadioRon posted:

C W Burfle posted:

In my experience, collectors don't go for items made in artificially low numbers.  Which is not to say that there aren't people who would enjoy owning one of these boxcars.

I bet they will sell out quickly.

Quickly?    Sadly, they will be virtually unattainable.

Ron, I guess I'm still a bit puzzled that folks would actually waste their energy fretting over whether they can get one of these 50 cars or not.    I mean really... WHAT is the big deal?  I would have thought by now that most seasoned enthusiasts don't particularly enjoy being played like a fiddle -- and that's putting it kindly.  So while I understand why somebody may want  to own one of these boxcars, I can't quite wrap my head around the disappointment of missing out.  There are FAR more important things in life to be disappointed about, and this one surely doesn't make the short list in my book.

I guess Lionel doesn't have all that much to promote at York this month, if they need to stoop this low to generate a buzz factor!!!    Maybe Atlas-O should take a page out of Lionel's book, and offer something similar to deflect all the spears they're gonna need to catch regarding the continued delay of Santa Fe F7's and CZ F3's.  

David

They just can't do anything right, can they.

Rod Miller

Wow such sinister schemes going on behind the scenes at Lionel. The York Boxcar ruse.  Genius.  Yes I have to say you guys have seen through the plot to get train folks angry, divert attention, and mess with your minds.  And here I thought it was just a nice boxcar.  Then again I don't make it a hobby of analyzing these things to the degree some do. 

I love York but have no interest in this car. I have to admit that I really like the graphics on it but the car itself looks like the car Lionel uses in their starter sets. It appears to be a undersized 6464 pw type of car with no stirrups and a screw in the side of it. At least MTH gives you a Premier boxcar in their Catalog boxcars. If it was a scale car at a reasonable price like the MTH catalog cars I would consider it but knowing Lionel's prices and the low production number I bet this car will not be inexpensive. For the folks that want it, I say go for it and enjoy the chase. I will sit on the sidelines.

All opinion. 

MartyE posted:

Only 50 being made. Not a bad looking car. 

My only question, why so many?  one of ten sounds much better.   A perfect fit behind that worthless chrome Berk from last year.  

joe      

Better watch out for the STAMPEED in the ORANGE HALL come Thursday at high noon?

Get the women and children out of the way!!!!!

laz1957 posted:

Better watch out for the STAMPEED in the ORANGE HALL come Thursday at high noon?

Get the women and children out of the way!!!!!

MY guess is they'll raffle them off one per hour at the booth.....

Joe 

Hudson J1e posted:

I love York but have no interest in this car. I have to admit that I really like the graphics on it but the car itself looks like the car Lionel uses in their starter sets. It appears to be a undersized 6464 pw type of car with no stirrups and a screw in the side of it. At least MTH gives you a Premier boxcar in their Catalog boxcars. If it was a scale car at a reasonable price like the MTH catalog cars I would consider it but knowing Lionel's prices and the low production number I bet this car will not be inexpensive. For the folks that want it, I say go for it and enjoy the chase. I will sit on the sidelines.

All opinion. 

We all have our differing opinions on these type of cars.

For me, I expect nothing more or less than a 6464 type of car for something like this that is obviously not a scale piece.  To me that is the definition of what one of these commemorative or "collector" boxcars should be.  (and by collector, I don't mean worth a lot money necessarily - the now maligned Horde and Hellgate cars were also of this style, as well as most of the Vapor Records, most of the TCA Museum commemorative cars, etc.)

While I am not suggesting the opinion is not valid, I never can understand why some people say they might like it better and be interested in getting one if it was a scale design.  It's obviously not a scale car.  I don't specifically dislike that the MTH cars are more to scale Premier pieces, but I don't see it as a selling point either (aside form at this point it should match all the previous offerings - but Iit didn't need to start as a scale series as far as I am concerned).  For the MTH cars people used to talk about it being a good deal for a potential repaint, since the car used to be offered much cheaper than any other Premier cars.  I can see that aspect for people who were buying them just to repaint them.

I might try to get one.  I won't complain if it's the standard MSRP of $85 if it's a USA assembled piece either (which it probably is).  I'm just not getting my hopes up, and I'm not going to give some guy who got in line before me $200 (or any ridiculous markup) for one on his table.

-Dave

E-UNIT-79 posted:

Don't worry, in sure somebody will get one than put it on his table for 10x the price with a "rare collectables"  sign on it.

YOU KNOW IT! And I am getting my roller skates on and pads to take down anyone in my way!

It will be the next Natty Boh reefer!

Richard Gonzales posted:

It  doesn't look particularly "YORKISH" to me.

Richard

Just another boxcar from Lionel's low-resolution inkjet printer. The same printer that splatters images of kids, dogs, and unreadable text on rolling stock, for a price. Slap a war bonnet on the side and it has to be valuable, right?

A "Yorkish" boxcar would have a Life-Alert logo on the side, with the caption, "Help! I've fallen and cannot get up from under a pile of unopened convention boxcars!"

J Daddy posted:

E-UNIT-79 posted:

Don't worry, in sure somebody will get one than put it on his table for 10x the price with a "rare collectables"  sign on it.

YOU KNOW IT! And I am getting my roller skates on and pads to take down anyone in my way!

It will be the next Natty Boh reefer!

You've got to be kidding right?    Me thinks if if this first in a series is sold and not given away it'll follow along with the hundreds of previous iconic Lionel instant collectable boxcars that initially sold high but soon became near worthless.  It will be popular until the next one comes along..

joe

Nice looking car, but I'll pass on this one. 

They didn't even give the car a number. You guy's run for the Lionel booth, & I will be looking for rare collectibles in the blue hall. What a joke this is. I believe Lionel is trying to pay there  for the trip to York. if they didn't come to York, I wouldn't miss them one bit. I spend about 60 seconds at the Lionel booth.

Lionel is bringing back the 80's with making collectible trains.
Next car will be in a set and you will have to hope someone will open the set and sell items individual.
Go Lionel

If Lionel's strategy for making such a small run for this boxcar was to get folks hyped up and blabbering about it and enticing this month's York goers to make Lionel their first stop, (either to buy the car or for curiosity's sake to see what the hypes about,) then their marketing plan is obviously working brilliantly.

Are some of you guys EVER happy with anything?

I like the car - and usually these kind of cars are not really up my alley. In fact, I like this Lionel car a lot. Am I going to be "first in line" to buy one? No, but if I have the opportunity to purchase one at a reasonable price on Friday when I'm walking the halls, I certainly would consider.

GregR posted:

 

A "Yorkish" boxcar would have a Life-Alert logo on the side, with the caption, "Help! I've fallen and cannot get up from under a pile of unopened convention boxcars!"

When I read this,   my sides started hurting and I had tears in my eyes from laughing so hard.  Good one Greg!

Nick

eddie g posted:

They didn't even give the car a number. You guy's run for the Lionel booth, & I will be looking for rare collectibles in the blue hall. What a joke this is. I believe Lionel is trying to pay there  for the trip to York. if they didn't come to York, I wouldn't miss them one bit. I spend about 60 seconds at the Lionel booth.

Nice attitude.

SJC posted:

Are some of you guys EVER happy with anything?

I like the car - and usually these kind of cars are not really up my alley. In fact, I like this Lionel car a lot. Am I going to be "first in line" to buy one? No, but if I have the opportunity to purchase one at a reasonable price on Friday when I'm walking the halls, I certainly would consider.

Actually, very few folks -- if any -- are really complaining about the car itself.  The design is very nice, and I could see lots of folks would want one.  However, the real issue is we're just all amazed that Lionel's management team who came up with the idea to make a limited run of 50 of these -- for whatever reason -- never ceases to display their incompetence making decisions like this.    Perhaps that's a bit harsh... but like I said earlier, it's their way of generating a buzz-factor I guess.  Not too impressed though.

I'm not sure which is worse... this kind of announcement, or the approach Lionel took with National Train Day boxcars where they led enthusiasts to believe they needed to visit a brick-and-mortar LHS to order one on a specific day of the year... and then we later found out dealers ordered extras anyway and had them for sale months afterward.  Now they can't even give them away. 

David

JC642 posted:

J Daddy posted:

E-UNIT-79 posted:

Don't worry, in sure somebody will get one than put it on his table for 10x the price with a "rare collectables"  sign on it.

YOU KNOW IT! And I am getting my roller skates on and pads to take down anyone in my way!

It will be the next Natty Boh reefer!

You've got to be kidding right?    Me thinks if if this first in a series is sold and not given away it'll follow along with the hundreds of previous iconic Lionel instant collectable boxcars that initially sold high but soon became near worthless.  It will be popular until the next one comes along..

joe

Ah, but your thinking in 2-D... now if it is signed and Autographed by some of the Lionel guys and girls there... may even have Mike Reagan sign it for posterity sake. . Then there are some of the greats ; like Rich Melvin, Alex M, GRJ, Mr. Muffins, the list can go on and on...

JC642 posted:

laz1957 posted:

Better watch out for the STAMPEED in the ORANGE HALL come Thursday at high noon?

Get the women and children out of the way!!!!!

MY guess is they'll raffle them off one per hour at the booth.....

Joe 

FYI... according to Lionel's Facebook page where this was "announced", they're encouraging folks to stop by their booth to purchase one.

I just have to laugh, because they also emphasize in the same sentence that York will be open to the public on 4/28 and 4/29... as if there might be any of the 50 remaining at their booth by Friday/Saturday after a day of TCA member traffic on Thursday... unless of course they don't offer them for sale until Friday.    Of course, no word on pricing either.  So if the boxcars are priced ridiculously high, Lionel may be hauling a bunch back to North Carolina!   

David

Best part about this thread?

I'll be watching this space later to see which of the forumites griping about the car and/or Lionel post pictures of their new purchase. 

Does anybody know what price Lionel is asking for this car? Maybe they will only make 50 because they intend to ask for a ridiculously high price. I'm still sure they will be able to find 50 guys at York that will throw away good money on an overpriced boxcar. 

I burst out laughing at a couple of postings on this subject.  I won't touch fantasy cars with a vaccinated ten foot pole, BUT if somebody's third grade kid had suggested they do a decent steam era model of a car, different each York,  for the real railroad that went through York, the MA &PA, l would be interested. (MTH, there is your cue)

I just have to laugh, because they also emphasize in the same sentence that York will be open to the public on 4/28 and 4/29... as if there might be any of the 50 remaining at their booth by Friday/Saturday after a day of TCA member traffic on Thursday... unless of course they don't offer them for sale until Friday.    Of course, no word on pricing either.  So if the boxcars are priced ridiculously high, Lionel may be hauling a bunch back to North Carolina!   

I guess we TCA members should be grateful that Lionel mentioned the York Train meet on their facebook page. Maybe they think the boxcar will draw the public. If that was their intent, Hooray for Lionel! But I think they need to up the number available.

By the way, it took me a few tries to even find their Facebook page. Maybe I just don't really know how to use Facebook.

I heard the real number is 5,000 and they will be free to the first 5,000 that come to the booth with a Visionline hat on! I have three hats for sale!

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I'm not sure which is worse... this kind of announcement, or the approach Lionel took with National Train Day boxcars where they led enthusiasts to believe they needed to visit a brick-and-mortar LHS to order one on a specific day of the year... and then we later found out dealers ordered extras anyway and had them for sale months afterward.  Now they can't even give them away. 

David

For those interested , my LHS still has limited edition aquarium cars with shredded legal briefs from the MTH lawsuit on the shelf. 

joe

Remember, before knocking over the women and children on Thursday to get this boxcar, on Wednesday at the Museum, there will be another limited boxcar available featuring the PRR/museum. There will be only 40 cars available.

"Sarah" from Lionel designed the above York car, she also did a great job on the most recent employee car; she is a hidden gem at Lionel, a wonderful young lady who enjoys trains.

JC642 posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I'm not sure which is worse... this kind of announcement, or the approach Lionel took with National Train Day boxcars where they led enthusiasts to believe they needed to visit a brick-and-mortar LHS to order one on a specific day of the year... and then we later found out dealers ordered extras anyway and had them for sale months afterward.  Now they can't even give them away. 

David

For those interested , my LHS still has limited edition aquarium cars with shredded legal briefs from the MTH lawsuit on the shelf. 

joe

Joe,

Not everything I told Tom to purchase was a winner, but overall, my track record at Great Lakes was pretty darn good during my tenure at Tom's place. I never did get to rent a tux from you

Regardless of Lionels thinking/plan/strategy behind the cars, the big question is where do you think this boxcar is destined to rank among: toy fair cars; Christmas cars; century club boxcars; dealer appreciation cars from Lionel or MTH; TCA passenger train cars; TCA convention cars; candy reefers; sports team cars; I could list more but I'm tired of typing.

aussteve posted:

Regardless of Lionels thinking/plan/strategy behind the cars, the big question is where do you think this boxcar is destined to rank among: toy fair cars; Christmas cars; dealer appreciation cars from Lionel or MTH; TCA passenger train cars; TCA convention cars; candy reefers; sports team cars; I could list more but I'm tired of typing.

Probably somewhere between Horde and Scrooge McDuck Mint (the original, not the one in the recent RTR catalog).

That's a wide enough range to almost necessitate being correct.

-Dave

I mean who cares. .I would like to see them sell them for $1,000 each and donate the money to the TCAED to help offset the costs of the York show. 

It should be easy to find 50 suckers at the York show, people who think it will become a instant collectible. 

Who cares about collectable. It may simply be fun knowing you own one of fifty pieces. That's not being a sucker.

Rod Miller

C W Burfle posted:

I just have to laugh, because they also emphasize in the same sentence that York will be open to the public on 4/28 and 4/29... as if there might be any of the 50 remaining at their booth by Friday/Saturday after a day of TCA member traffic on Thursday... unless of course they don't offer them for sale until Friday.    Of course, no word on pricing either.  So if the boxcars are priced ridiculously high, Lionel may be hauling a bunch back to North Carolina!   

I guess we TCA members should be grateful that Lionel mentioned the York Train meet on their facebook page. Maybe they think the boxcar will draw the public. If that was their intent, Hooray for Lionel! But I think they need to up the number available.

By the way, it took me a few tries to even find their Facebook page. Maybe I just don't really know how to use Facebook.

Maybe it's a long term strategy to draw the public who might like to purchase such a car to being TCA members.

Imagine:

• The cars sell out on Thursday (easy to imagine)
• The public comes in on Friday and asks Lionel reps about the car (a certainty if it was prominently on their Facebook page)
• Lionel states, oh, we only made a limited number of those, and it was first available on the day that only TCA members are allowed at the meet (plausible, if they offer any explanation other than just "we are out of them")
• The public decides they don't want to miss out on such things in the future, so they join TCA so they can attend on Thursday next time and have a shot at getting a car. (I know this is where it got far-fetched and not likely)

I can dream right?  If it plays out, people can stop saying Lionel didn't do enough to promote the public admittance and encourage future membership in the TCA.

-Dave

Geeeee!

I wish I never had commented on this post!

Please, make it go away!!!

Richard

Might be worth something if signed by Gary Moreau.

• The cars sell out on Thursday (easy to imagine)
• The public comes in on Friday and asks Lionel reps about the car (a certainty if it was prominently on their Facebook page)
• Lionel states, oh, we only made a limited number of those, and it was first available on the day that only TCA members are allowed at the meet (plausible, if they offer any explanation other than just "we are out of them")
• The public decides they don't want to miss out on such things in the future, so they join TCA so they can attend on Thursday next time and have a shot at getting a car. (I know this is where it got far-fetched and not likely)

Or they decide that they were scammed and vow never to have anything to do with trains again. I think this is the more likely scenario.  This will happen even if they hold the cars until Friday.

Brings back memories of a sale that a local department store had in the 1970's. There were a limited number of 8551 Pennsy electrics available at each store.
Folks were crowded around the doors, waiting for the store to open. When the doors were unlocked, people ran to the toy department and fought over the locos. One guy threatened to shoot another who grabbed a whole carton. The store folks brought out cartons of Preamble express locos to quiet the crowd.
I was just a kid, but I got one of each.

C W Burfle posted:

...........Or they decide that they were scammed and vow never to have anything to do with trains again. I think this is the more likely scenario.  This will happen even if they hold the cars until Friday..........

I concur. 

My 1st post in this thread regarding people being upset when they can't get one is more where my true thoughts are. 

If actual new memberships were generated, any that continued past one year would probably be in spite of this, not because of this. 

Slightly off the topic, but in my slightly non-scientific analysis of the number of TCA memberships that have been processed over the years since I joined, it's not getting people to sign up initially that is the problem, it's retaining them (or it's a combination of that and the age demographic  - discussed in many other places).  The number of memberships 20 years ago was somewhere between 45-46,000 (TCA itself was just around 43 years old).  20 years later we are somewhere in the vicinity of 72,000 with the TCA just over 60 years old.  Call that 26,000 new memberships an average of 1300 new memberships per year over 20 years.  Contrasted to 46,000 over 43 years, and it's roughly 1070 per year for the 1st 43 years.

I was just trying to dream up some scenario that could end up as a positive in the long run, but I agree the odds of it playing out that way are very slim.

-Dave

If indeed Lionel is trying to increase TCA membership, and I am not saying that is the case but it is an interesting theory, how about this for an idea: Why produce a special York TCA boxcar and give them away for FREE to anyone who joins the TCA at the meet? Maybe make 25 boxcars and if they don't all go they could always save them for the next meet. The person who just joined would certainly have a good feeling about Lionel, model trains, and the TCA and they would have a Bona Fide collectors item/souvenir. I think it would be a win/win situation in the end. 

Dave45681 posted:

Imagine:

• The cars sell out on Thursday (easy to imagine)
• The public comes in on Friday and asks Lionel reps about the car (a certainty if it was prominently on their Facebook page)
• Lionel states, oh, we only made a limited number of those, and it was first available on the day that only TCA members are allowed at the meet (plausible, if they offer any explanation other than just "we are out of them")
• BUT, if you still want one, you can find them today on member tables at twice the original price in the White or Red halls.
• The public decides they don't want to miss out on such things in the future, so they join TCA so they can attend on Thursday next time and have a shot at getting a car. (I know this is where it got far-fetched and not likely)

 

I can dream right?  If it plays out, people can stop saying Lionel didn't do enough to promote the public admittance and encourage future membership in the TCA.

-Dave

Thought I'd add an additional bullet point .

joe   

And I thought I lived a miserable existence...  all this over a nice box car.  When and if we do a Legacy Users Group car I'll have to remember this thread.

The York boxcar/ show mention on Lionel's facebook page is drifting down as it ages. The emphasis seems to be a drawing to win a Wonder Woman boxcar.

On the positive side: there was also mention of the York meet being open to the public in their posting of information on SD60M pre-production samples.

As an Eastern Division member, I thank Lionel for the mentions.

MartyE posted:

And I thought I lived a miserable existence...  all this over a nice box car.  When and if we do a Legacy Users Group car I'll have to remember this thread.

As long as a potential LUG car isn't made in unrealistically low proportion to the number of interested attendees/purchasers, it would not be a problem.  Assuming something on the order of 40-50 regular participants in the LUG meeting (correct me if I'm way off), we could maybe realistically say only half might be interested based on the collector vs. operator dynamic.  You wouldn't make 2 cars for an estimated demand of maybe 20-25.  That is effectively what Lionel is doing proportionally here.

-Dave

MartyE posted:

And I thought I lived a miserable existence...  all this over a nice box car.  When and if we do a Legacy Users Group car I'll have to remember this thread.

MARTY, if you do it just remember that you will have to sign all those cars.  Might even have to pay TCA for a table or two?

Dave45681 posted:

MartyE posted:

And I thought I lived a miserable existence...  all this over a nice box car.  When and if we do a Legacy Users Group car I'll have to remember this thread.

As long as a potential LUG car isn't made in unrealistically low proportion to the number of interested attendees/purchasers, it would not be a problem.  Assuming something on the order of 40-50 regular participants in the LUG meeting (correct me if I'm way off), we could maybe realistically say only half might be interested based on the collector vs. operator dynamic.  You wouldn't make 2 cars for an estimated demand of maybe 20-25.  That is effectively what Lionel is doing proportionally here.

-Dave

I'll making 4.  Just to see the outcry.  Sell 1 and then put the rest on sale for

Let's just say they make 250.  They don't sell all of them.  They end up on dealer's shelves and people complain.

They make 50.  They sell them all.  People complain.

They give them away.  "I can't make it York"  People complain.

They didn't donate the money.  People complain.

I'd hate to be any of these companies.  You can't please everyone...problem is those who are pleased are usually the ones that remain silent.

Sure I get it.  It's a low number of cars.  Chances are many will be left without them, many expressed they don't care, it's life.  I just don't see it worthy of soon to be 3 pages of wadded underwear crisis. 

MartyE posted:

And I thought I lived a miserable existence...  all this over a nice box car.  When and if we do a Legacy Users Group car I'll have to remember this thread.

Yes, and make sure you only release 20 of them... to the first 20 people that show up. Don't list the price, and sell them out 24 hours earlier to dealers only... yep. Oh and charge more for your autograph....

I think I see a set of rare Detroit 3 Railers cars coming out soon maybe 10... with my signature on it.

Sure I get it.  It's a low number of cars.  Chances are many will be left without them, many expressed they don't care, it's life.  I just don't see it worthy of soon to be 3 pages of wadded underwear crisis. 

Happily, you are not a moderator. 
It's something to talk about. People are just chatting.

I have no idea what you're trying to do so for that reason "I'M OUT"

The items or things I need come high noon at the orange hall.

1. pepper spray 2. cattle prod 3. stun gun 4. "the little old lady from Pasadena" 5. some Fred MacMurray  "Flubber"

why isn't Lionel announcing this themselves?  I this OGRR forum, Menards has the best marketing approach of any product manufacturer.  Wondering why Lionel and MTH aren't more involved with their devoted fan base

C W Burfle posted:

 

Happily, you are not a moderator. 
It's something to talk about. People are just chatting.

Yep.  Thank goodness.  I'm certainly glad something can make you happy. 

Just because I don't feel it's worthy and understand the strife doesn't mean that I don't think folks can talk about it.  But that's just my opinion.   As you said were just chatting.

The cars will be available to TCA members that are staying atleast 5 nights at the Wyndham Garden Inn. 

I think BURFLE has changed his mind about going to York. He is going to be 1st in line at the orange hall Wednesday night.

Yep.  Thank goodness.  I'm certainly glad something can make you happy. 

Lots of occurrences and things make me happy. 
As far as moderation goes, I think the moderators do a good job.
I don't think I'd make a good moderator, and would not want the job.

As for this boxcar, it's not to my taste.

It would be great if everybody attending the show and wanted one would be able to get it. It's difficult for me to believe that there will only be enough demand to sell fifty pieces (unless the price is crazy high). If that's the case, I don't see how the big train manufacturers and importers will remain in business much longer. 

Garrett76 posted:

why isn't Lionel announcing this themselves?  I this OGRR forum, Menards has the best marketing approach of any product manufacturer.  Wondering why Lionel and MTH aren't more involved with their devoted fan base

They did advertise this on their Facebook page.  A better place to advertise to the public than here especially for someone new.  They are much more likely to come across it on Facebook than here.

"Madison Hardware Dust" comment - GOOD ONE - too funny!

Garrett76 posted:

George Bailey: You know what the three most exciting sounds in the world are? Anchor chains, plane motors, and train whistles!

No, breakfast is served, lunch is served, dinner is served !

Jerry

MartyE posted:

Let's just say they make 250.  They don't sell all of them.  They end up on dealer's shelves and people complain.

They make 50.  They sell them all.  People complain.

They give them away.  "I can't make it York"  People complain.

I'd hate to be any of these companies.  You can't please everyone...problem is those who are pleased are usually the ones that remain silent.

Sure I get it.  It's a low number of cars.  Chances are many will be left without them, many expressed they don't care, it's life.  I just don't see it worthy of soon to be 3 pages of wadded underwear crisis. 

Hey Marty:  As you likely know, MTH has done York cars each meet for the last 20 some years.  Obviously MTH has found a way to make enough cars to suit those typically interested in buying one.  Its not the conundrum that you describe.  If Lionel wants to do this without alienating a LOT of people... it can make them on an "order for later delivery" basis, like it does with the National Lionel Train Day offerings.   What they have decided to do is simply absurd.    

RadioRon posted:

MartyE posted:

Let's just say they make 250.  They don't sell all of them.  They end up on dealer's shelves and people complain.

They make 50.  They sell them all.  People complain.

They give them away.  "I can't make it York"  People complain.

I'd hate to be any of these companies.  You can't please everyone...problem is those who are pleased are usually the ones that remain silent.

Sure I get it.  It's a low number of cars.  Chances are many will be left without them, many expressed they don't care, it's life.  I just don't see it worthy of soon to be 3 pages of wadded underwear crisis. 

Hey Marty:  As you likely know, MTH has done York cars each meet for the last 20 some years.  Obviously MTH has found a way to make enough cars to suit those typically interested in buying one.  Its not the conundrum that you describe.  If Lionel wants to do this without alienating a LOT of people... it can make them on an "order for later delivery" basis, like it does with the National Lionel Train Day offerings.   What they have decided to do is simply absurd.    

Someone would complain about that too. Look at the built to order threads. I do understand but the thing is no matter which way they go someone will complain. That was more my point than whether 50 or 100 was enough.  I'm certainly not defending the number made but it is interesting to see the different folks viewpoint on what is the correct amount or correct way to distribute them.

Would people feel differently if they did a raffle instead of a purchase?  I once won a Toy Fair car by entering my name in the large spinning basket.  Would the 50 be acceptable then?  IDK  just curious.  

MTH always does a wonderful York car. 

Would people feel differently if they did a raffle instead of a purchase?

Doubtful. I remember how upset people were about the first Century Club's early bird boxcar.

They originally were going to raffle off a Berkshire. One big difference, the rest of us would have been able to purchase one. The boxcars came about when a question about the legality of the raffle came up.

Am I correct that we don't know the price and we don't know how they will be distributed?

Should be interesting.

Paul

Railrunnin posted:

Am I correct that we don't know the price and we don't know how they will be distributed?

Should be interesting.

Paul

 

Yes.

Ah, but your thinking in 2-D... now if it is signed and Autographed by some of the Lionel guys and girls there... may even have Mike Reagan sign it for posterity sake. . Then there are some of the greats ; like Rich Melvin, Alex M, GRJ, Mr. Muffins, the list can go on and on...

 Someone posted about Lionel raffling off the cars hourly. That would be the smart approach. If they really wanted to generate some real event status, they could bring Richard Maddox to York and have him sign some cars. I know folks would like to see him attend York, make an appearance with Lionel and bring back one of their best Presidents/COO.

Being friends with him, I always mention to him about coming to York to see his friends and fans. They could really hype their York appearance there.

I hope someone at Lionel read this! It is a viable suggestion Howard!

Now the TCA is jumping on the bandwagon.

Ya; The TCA is still trying to get rid of them! 

With or without a sprinkle of Madison Hardware dust? :-)

Chris Lonero posted:

Ya; The TCA is still trying to get rid of them! 

I liked that set, but was sad to see the potential matching Docksider project not get enough interest to be produced.

-Dave

Here's a thought:  MAYBE those cars aren't meant for you.  MAYBE those cars are aimed at the general public that will be admitted at this April's York.  

Remember - this is the York where the public is invited, although you'd never know it by the lack of publicity that the TCA has put out about this.  Golly!  If the general public attends, maybe they will sign up a new member or two! Maybe young enough that they don't know a world without cell phones! 

It looks to be a really nice car, for those that collect cars, for me, it's not my cup of tea, so to speak.  I did the Century club cars, Whoops, big mistake..I did the LCCA cars, another dust collector...My thoughts are, its very nice but I will spend my $80 on something  more useful for my layout....Thank You Lionel, maybe next time.

BMT-Express posted:

Here's a thought:  MAYBE those cars aren't meant for you.  MAYBE those cars are aimed at the general public that will be admitted at this April's York. 

Remember - this is the York where the public is invited, although you'd never know it by the lack of publicity that the TCA has put out about this. 

I've been seeing quite a bit of promotion on Facebook from both MTH and Lionel as well as from TCA national and EDTCA.

MartyE posted:

"I've been seeing quite a bit of promotion on Facebook from both MTH and Lionel as well as from TCA national and EDTCA."

Those are the converted.  We need new members of the choir - the loft is crowded with walkers.

There are so many "collectible cars" out that it makes all of them COMMON and nothing special.

Club cars and convention cars are only good for making the organizations a few extra bucks.

Ted Bertiger posted:

Collectable? Not sure. I have 3 of the 125 cars that KLINE made for our AOL online York BBQ's.....Allan Miller can attest to our BBQ's.

Best d*** chow-down-and-drink-up train events EVER!

leapinlarry posted:

...  I did the Century club cars, Whoops, big mistake..I did the LCCA cars, another dust collector... 

Exactly, Larry.  But everyone needs to experience these things for themselves.  No matter how "nice" we try to let them down easy (and give them fair warning), I'm sure there will still be a throng of folks who make the Lionel booth their first stop because of this boxcar.  And if it makes them happy, that's good.  But if they're thinking this is gonna be another Polar Express ToyFair 2005 boxcar, then they are setting themselves up for a huge disappointment.  Nobody's gonna give a 2017 York Boxcar a second glance once the buzz-factor wears off.  But while it's "hot", a few sellers will play the usual premium pricing game.  Count on it.

David 

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

leapinlarry posted:

...  I did the Century club cars, Whoops, big mistake..I did the LCCA cars, another dust collector... 

Exactly, Larry.  But everyone needs to experience these things for themselves.  No matter how "nice" we try to let them down easy (and give them fair warning), I'm sure there will still be a throng of folks who make the Lionel booth their first stop because of this boxcar.  And if it makes them happy, that's good.  But if they're thinking this is gonna be another Polar Express ToyFair 2005 boxcar, then they are setting themselves up for a huge disappointment.  Nobody's gonna give a 2017 York Boxcar a second glance once the buzz-factor wears off.  But while it's "hot", a few sellers will play the usual premium pricing game.  Count on it.

David 

I got all the CC1 boxcars at York one year for $15 a piece.  Glad I waited.  I have all the CC engines and wanted the cars but not for the original pricing.  I waited long enough and it paid off.

MartyE posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

leapinlarry posted:

...  I did the Century club cars, Whoops, big mistake..I did the LCCA cars, another dust collector... 

Exactly, Larry.  But everyone needs to experience these things for themselves.  No matter how "nice" we try to let them down easy (and give them fair warning), I'm sure there will still be a throng of folks who make the Lionel booth their first stop because of this boxcar.  And if it makes them happy, that's good.  But if they're thinking this is gonna be another Polar Express ToyFair 2005 boxcar, then they are setting themselves up for a huge disappointment.  Nobody's gonna give a 2017 York Boxcar a second glance once the buzz-factor wears off.  But while it's "hot", a few sellers will play the usual premium pricing game.  Count on it.

David 

I got all the CC1 boxcars at York one year for $15 a piece.  Glad I waited.  I have all the CC engines and wanted the cars but not for the original pricing.  I waited long enough and it paid off.

Sounds about right, Marty.    $15/car... a big drop from what they went for back in the day.  It all happens like clockwork... one big bell-shaped curve... early buyers pay a premium price for the car right out of the chute -- a price they'd never pay here on the forum.  Then the prices push upwards as original buyers try to flip the cars during the short-term bubble when enthusiasts feel like they missed out on something special, blah-blah-blah...  And of course not long thereafter, we're on to the next new buzz, and the bubble bursts on these... and voilla... you're quickly into the $15/car range as the bottom falls out.    Happens EVERY time.

David

Railrunnin posted:

Am I correct that we don't know the price and we don't know how they will be distributed?

Should be interesting.

Paul

 

That is the purpose of this discussion.   To talk about things we don't have all the facts, speculate on the potential problems, and recommend the correct solutions to the world's problems. 

I mean look at how many people took the time and effort out of their busy schedule to post and say " it doesn't matter to me".

It is interesting that this announcement is getting favorable comments on other social media outside of OGR..home of the permanently grumpy 

They can dream, can't they......

I don't know about "favorable outside of OGR" I've seen the same sentiment on Facebook about the same boxcars and it isn't by the same cast of characters either. I've picked up a number of "COLLECTIBLE" cars over the years after the fact for a great price, most less than $20. In fact the only one I've never seen come down in price is the Indian Motorcycle boxcar, that one seems to hold steady around $100. The last one i actually held in my hand was at York a couple years ago and the dealer wanted $135 for it, he still had it at 12 on Saturday.

Jerry

baltimoretrainworks posted:

I don't know about "favorable outside of OGR" I've seen the same sentiment on Facebook about the same boxcars and it isn't by the same cast of characters either. I've picked up a number of "COLLECTIBLE" cars over the years after the fact for a great price, most less than $20. In fact the only one I've never seen come down in price is the Indian Motorcycle boxcar, that one seems to hold steady around $100. The last one i actually held in my hand was at York a couple years ago and the dealer wanted $135 for it, he still had it at 12 on Saturday.

 

Jerry

And the Natty Boh reefers.

And the Scrooge McDuck mint cars.

I've never seen one that is priced less than ~ $150 or so.  I somehow doubt tons of them are selling for $20 regularly.

Now one car I would consider paying up for would be the Christmas Story "You'll Shoot Your Eye Out" boxcar, I have a Red Ryder BB gun mounted on the wall in my home office and would like to hang the boxcar with it. Not really a collectible per se but most sets get stripped for the car and it usually goes for what the rest of the set goes for without the boxcar. I offered a guy on Ebay $75 for one and he turned me down, I think after a year or so he finally got $100 for it.

Jerry

baltimoretrainworks posted:

... I offered a guy on Ebay $75 for one and he turned me down, I think after a year or so he finally got $100 for it.

...

A lot of these sellers on eBay are "scheiksters".    They hold firm on inflated prices hoping guys will eventually think, "OK... If I need to spend over $99 for it, at least I'll have 6 months to spread out the payments".    Almost like the way casinos use chips rather than real money, so folks become oblivious to what they're actually spending.

I've noticed the LCCA NS Support Our Troops boxcar popping up on eBay for a buy-it-now $225 price recently.  But if you visit the LCCA booth at York, they've been selling them for $150 for a couple of years now.

It always pays to know the market.

David

O' Great oniputant and all knowing OGR forum moderator, thou art indeed great and magnificent.

 We come to you with a simple request.

Please rain fire and and brimstone down upon this thread and remove it from your sacred pages. 

We ask this in the name of the Father Cowan, his blessed son Lawrence and the the holy competitor Gilbert.

Amen

Brother Richard 

After 45 years, today it's still near worthless. The  "Gold Standard" for all future Lionel instant collectables.

joe    

Four pages. And counting…

What’s the old saying?

“All publicity is good publicity.”

Game, set, match, Lionel.

I think a nice YORKY car was the o27 kline cars Maury made years back for free. If you were a club member. Anybody remember those? Different colors, different scenes. You'll probably see one of these Lionel cars at YORK under glass for 350 price. What a shame.  Dave

Richard Gonzales posted:

O' Great oniputant and all knowing OGR forum moderator, thou art indeed great and magnificent.

 We come to you with a simple request.

Please rain fire and and brimstone down upon this thread and remove it from your sacred pages. 

We ask this in the name of the Father Cowan, his blessed son Lawrence and the the holy competitor Gilbert.

Amen

Brother Richard 

Maybe just stop reading it?

Dave45681 posted:

And the Scrooge McDuck mint cars.

I've never seen one that is priced less than ~ $150 or so.  I somehow doubt tons of them are selling for $20 regularly.

 

 

Not too many sold for $150 either...

Jerry

baltimoretrainworks posted:

Not too many sold for $150 either...

Jerry

Fair enough.... I've not been searching the 'bay regularly to track them.  I was basing my comment on train show observations over the years.

The ones you show were still much higher than a regular issue car though.

JC642: "The Gold Standard" MPC Chessie Geep - another SNL-worthy good one!

When released, 8470 Gold Chessie Geep could be purchased for $25 in my area. It initially shot up to $150. Today they can be had for around $75. All these prices are for mint pieces with nice, clean boxes.
To me, the interesting thing about the Gold Chessie is that it was one of the first two "limited edition" pieces Lionel offered, along with the Coke set.

I didn't buy one, electing to spend my $25 on some Postwar from Madison Hardware.
I did buy the Coke set, I am fairly certain it was $40.

I guess the folks who did pay $25 would make some money selling theirs if they kept it mint.
Not so much for the people who paid $150.

I finally got one years later for somewhere around $60-$75.

This thread has certainly been an interesting read. The one thing I vehemently disagree with is the idea that the thread should be deleted. There is no fighting or anything else I can see that is against the forum rules and the participants seem to be enjoying the discussion as I enjoyed reading it. I see no reason why it should be deleted.

I don't know Lionel's rational behind this boxcar but to me the fact that they created publicity for the meet is a good thing. Maybe that was their intent all along and they just underestimated the interest in the car? Whatever, I think it was a good idea for Lionel to do this boxcar. 

johnstrains posted:

... What’s the old saying?

“All publicity is good publicity.”

...

You might want to check with United Airlines on that.  

Hudson J1e posted:

Maybe ... they just underestimated the interest in the car? 

That may be the real reason for 50 cars. They want to gauge interest in a York car but don't  want to show up with 500 of them and get stuck trying to unload 300 plus at the next show because there was no interest or the price was too high as we've seen on other "collectible" cars. Since the term "collectible" carries a bit of a stigma to it I think we need to apply the label "collectible" to those items that didn't sell very well and can be had for a blowout prices now and as a result are very easy to "collect" and call the ones that folks actually scramble for like the Natty Boh reefer "iconic" or some other term that doesn't carry the stink of "collectible".

Jerry

I enjoy special runs and commemorative pieces as a collectible honoring some event or time....not with any interest in financial returns.   Keep in mind collectibles are not about investments.  Collectible just means that someone likes to own it for themselves.

I enjoy special runs and commemorative pieces as a collectible honoring some event or time....not with any interest in financial returns.   Keep in mind collectibles are not about investments.  Collectible just means that someone likes to own it for themselves.

I hope you get one!
The museum car too.

"Collectible" is a relativistic term with different meanings for different folks.

I won't be at York until Friday so I bet they will be long gone! Maybe some other maker will have a commemorative car there.   BTW Whats the best Pennsylvania Dutch Restaurant in the area?  I am on the hunt for good food, maybe scrapple, and shoo-fly pie!

baltimoretrainworks posted:

They want to gauge interest in a York car but don't  want to show up with 500 of them and get stuck trying to unload 300 plus at the next show because there was no interest or the price was too high. 

Jerry

I think there is HUGH range for hitting a "happy medium" on pre-producing these cars.   As to why Lionel doesn't just take orders on them for later delivery (like the Lionel Train Day cars) doesn't make sense.  It would seem to be the correct thing to do.  Everyone who wants one gets one & Lionel isn't left holding the bag on anything.  Producing the right number of York cars has not been an issue for MTH, which has done so twice a year for about 20 years.

Mike, You will have to go over to the Lancaster area for that.

Mike W. posted:

I won't be at York until Friday so I bet they will be long gone! Maybe some other maker will have a commemorative car there.   BTW Whats the best Pennsylvania Dutch Restaurant in the area?  I am on the hunt for good food, maybe scrapple, and shoo-fly pie!

I would go to the Hershey Farm restaurant or Miller's Smorgasbord for the full shebang of Pennsylvania Dutch food.  BigRail

So, theoretically the first run could be 1 of 50, and, if they provide a signup sheet, a second run could be "51 of 240".  First batch still "special" (Say it like Dana Carvey's ChurchLady), but they also satisfy those who just like the design.

Carl Orton posted:

So, theoretically the first run could be 1 of 50, and, if they provide a signup sheet, a second run could be "51 of 240".  First batch still "special" (Say it like Dana Carvey's ChurchLady), but they also satisfy those who just like the design.

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I wouldn't imagine they are serializing them.  They all most likely will say "1 of 50" on the door.

Even if it wouldn't be a huge change, they would have to change something in the manufacturing process if they did a second run, just to drop the "1 of 50".

That would not be unprecedented though, as they did something similar when they re-made the 2006 Macy's Thanksgiving boxcar as a regular catalog item in 2007.  It had the same catalog number as the original car, the only difference is the year printed on the door (or possibly a "built by" date on the graphic elsewhere, memory is fuzzy at the moment).

-Dave

Guys, we need to step it up.  This thread has page 13 potential. But we are 9 pages short with only 9 days until the start of York week.  We can make it to page 13 if we all pull together as a team

I have concluded, regardless of manufacturer, their is NO Such thing as a collectible car, engine or train set. I am still licking my CCI and CCII wounds. If it wasn't for Mike R. and his team (when he was at Lionel) my Niagara's (have 2) would still be worthless. At least with the new gears I can run the snot out of them with the milk cars (yes, two sets) and actually enjoy one of the paper weights. 

Finally got rid of them all but the Niagara's for about 15% of what I paid.

Nothing in the train world is a collectible anymore. High price upfront - worth 1/4 of what you paid in 2 years. That is unless your trying to create a nice consist of the same road name.

For me, Gold and Silver coins from 1775 to 1895, those are collectibles depending on the quality and grade.

k

Maybe we'll see an episode like the 27080 Vision boxcar. The 27080 is very similar to the 2009 Dealer Appreciation boxcar, but there are some differences. Was originally raffled off at the Lionel booth at York.  The few cars that could be found we're at crazy prices.  Some time goes by, and the same car now appears in the catalog. Large dealers were then blowing out the cars for $29.99.

ed h posted:

Maybe we'll see an episode like the 27080 Vision boxcar. The 27080 is very similar to the 2009 Dealer Appreciation boxcar, but there are some differences. Was originally raffled off at the Lionel booth at York.  The few cars that could be found we're at crazy prices.  Some time goes by, and the same car now appears in the catalog. Large dealers were then blowing out the cars for $29.99.

 

 

Are we seeing the pattern yet??? 

Did anyone really think that this was an investment opportunity, or a chance to buy a souvineer?  

I don't know, it's my 1st York and I'd really like one to commemorate the event. I know I'll never get one, but I can dream.

JDFonz posted:

I don't know, it's my 1st York and I'd really like one to commemorate the event. I know I'll never get one, but I can dream.

Hope you get one

Any reports from those at York as to what the scene was regarding sales of this car ?

ed h posted:

Any reports from those at York as to what the scene was regarding sales of this car ?

There was certainly enough demand, though the line at the back door wasn't bad before the meet. 

I got there probably only 20 minutes before the open and there were less than 20 of us there  (maybe another 10-15 (estimating) as we got closer to the open). 

There were lines of people approaching from other doors too though (possibly they were smarter and knew the guard at the back door near Lionel was going to delay allowing the line in so that people from other lines actually got to the booth before those of us right there - oh well). 

Line processing was a little slow due to the Lionel Point of Sale computer, as well as many people paying with credit cards.  I was still out of the booth probably by 9:20 or 9:25.

Car came out nice!

I can't comment if the prophecy of people trying to resell it on their table for high markup has come true or not since I was at my table most of the day aside from this early morning field trip.  I didn't see any for sale in the few parts of the dealer halls (mostly purple) I visited after 5 PM.

Even though I was a critic of the low quantity they made (still feel that way - wish more people who wanted one could have picked one up from Lionel), I will give Lionel proper kudos for pricing this car.  I was figuring standard MSRP for a Made in USA boxcar, around 84.99 (similar to Wonder Woman Boxcar and others).  I was pleasantly surprised when they  said it was only $50.

-Dave

I knew they'd be gone, but I still had to ask. They said they were gone in 15 mins. 

4 pages of big tears, and they were gone the first day!

 I guess the Lionel guys (and ladies!) know what they are doing.

Carl Orton posted:

I knew they'd be gone, but I still had to ask. They said they were gone in 15 mins. 

That sounds about right.  I strolled by the booth around 12:30pm (with no plans to purchase the special York boxcar) and saw no special boxcars -- only a small poster of the boxcar at the front left corner of the booth.  A couple hours later, somebody was smart enough to remove the poster.  

There were still PLENTY of 115th Anniversary boxcars on the shelves though.  I guess those were the consolation prize.  Lionel seems to be having as much trouble selling those boxcars as dealers are having trouble selling the silver, chrome-plated 115th Anniversary Berkshire locomotives... which would be all gone by now if they were produced as black Polar Express Berks.  Oh well, another lesson learned (hopefully).   

David

I guess the Lionel guys (and ladies!) know what they are doing.

Artificially creating a shortage?
I guess nobody is going to stop buying newly made Lionel trains over this.

BMT-Express posted:

4 pages of big tears, and they were gone the first day!

 !

Since these were sold right away, does anybody know the price they were sold for?

Dave45681 - Thanks for the update.  Had a feeling these cars would go quick. Guess folks at the show today or general public wont be happy when they find out all were gone very quickly yesterday.

They were lining up at 11:30.  I enter through these doors all the time  this was the biggest crowd.  Most in line for the box car. 

Yes, all 50 of these cars were gone within an hour of the show 's Thursday opening.  Aside from making far too few... or not taking orders for later delivery, so anyone who wanted one could buy one, Lionel also didn't even budget the cars to a certain number for each day of the meet.  So, if you were not there to run into line at noon on Thursday, it was tough s---t for you.  A Lionel staffer told me there was much discussion/disagreement "within Lionel" as to how many to make.  When I asked why they weren't simply made available on an order-for-later-shipment basis, she said that many people get upset "when they can't take the item home right away."  I explained that, while that is all well and good, their poor decision led to possible 100's of people who would have otherwise wanted one, having NO chance to get one!  Which is the lesser option: not "walking away with it" at the time of the offering, or never being given a fair chance of buying one in the first place?   Thanks Lionel Trains! 

RadioRon posted:

Yes, all 50 of these cars were gone within an hour of the show 's Thursday opening.  Aside from making far too few... 

Far too few?  There were 3 1/2 pages here declaring "Well! I'm not gonna buy one!"

Seems they made just the right number, and won't have to blow them out at the warehouse sale. 

 Look at who wants them now that they are gone!

BMT-Express posted:

RadioRon posted:

Yes, all 50 of these cars were gone within an hour of the show 's Thursday opening.  Aside from making far too few... 

Far too few?  There were 3 1/2 pages here declaring "Well! I'm not gonna buy one!"

 

Seems they made just the right number, and won't have to blow them out at the warehouse sale. 

 Look at who wants them now that they are gone!

 

I agree... it's like anything.  "first xxxx number of people get a free or get to buy a commemorative whatever".  Happens at events on a daily basis forever.

Lionel made it known how many there would be.

Besides almost no one in this thread should care because they all thought this was stupid/waste of money/for the ignorant..etc... pick one.. and were not interested in it.

BMT-Express posted: 

Seems they made just the right number,  

And how do you figure"just the right number" ? If they only made 10 they'd be gone too, would that have been "just the right number" ?  A lot of the griping here came from only 50 being made, only available on first day (for all intents and purposes), no announced price, etc.. 200 of them would have sold out too (also, "just the right number"). Face it , Lionel pooched it on this one, I bet they start showing up on Ebay before Yorks over.

Jerry

baltimoretrainworks posted:

BMT-Express posted: 

Seems they made just the right number,  

And how do you figure"just the right number" ? If they only made 10 they'd be gone too, would that have been "just the right number" ?  A lot of the griping here came from only 50 being made, only available on first day (for all intents and purposes), no announced price, etc.. 200 of them would have sold out too (also, "just the right number"). Face it , Lionel pooched it on this one, I bet they start showing up on Ebay before Yorks over.

 

Jerry

Good point, maybe Lionel will start selling off of all of their products with a limited (magic) number.
It is probably already done with pre orders and if the orders do not reach their magic number that product is not made.
Anyway I m still glad that Lionel and all of the other manufactures are around
This keeps the hobby and our forum active with a lot of discussions. 

 

baltimoretrainworks posted:

BMT-Express posted: 

Seems they made just the right number,  

And how do you figure"just the right number" ? 

Jerry

 

 The right number is "sold out"  - Lionel is a business, not a charity.  Just right means they are not packing them up and taking them back to Concord.  

 

 

C W Burfle posted:

When released, 8470 Gold Chessie Geep could be purchased for $25 in my area. It initially shot up to $150. Today they can be had for around $75. All these prices are for mint pieces with nice, clean boxes.

I guess the folks who did pay $25 would make some money selling theirs if they kept it mint.
Not so much for the people who paid $150.

I finally got one years later for somewhere around $60-$75.

Actually, Harry Henning has two on his table today at York for $50 each . . .

My wife and I casually strolled by around 12:15PM Thursday and saw the line.

She offered to wait in line.......after around 15 minutes, she purchased #49..

That's my girl.

Donald

RadioRon posted:

Hey Jerry... Obviously 10 cars would have been gone.  How would that have been just the right number?   What kind of analogy is that? 

Well if someone can make an absurd comment like "50 was the right number since they sold out" than 10 is also a valid argument for a right number since it would also have sold out (that is the point I was making). I've had Boy Scout bake sales that sold out after the first Mass at church, that wasn't the right amount it means we under estimated sales potential. But we weren't "in the business" as it were like Lionel is, they should have done better research or came up with a better plan to distribute them instead of the mad dash they saw at the opening. 50 cars for a multi-day event from an icon like Lionel that attracts several thousand is an extremely low and absurd number. If they wanted a rare car then make 5 of them and have people fill out a ticket to be in a drawing for one of them.

"Lionel is a business, not a charity. "

Thank you Capt. Obvious, I was wondering why the IRS kept disallowing my train purchases. Never said it was a charity, but if being a business means continually having Quality Control issues, missing projected delivery dates, cancelling products after announcing them, over/under estimating production volumes then yeah you're right, they are a business.

Jerry

Gpritch posted:

C W Burfle posted:

When released, 8470 Gold Chessie Geep could be purchased for $25 in my area. It initially shot up to $150. Today they can be had for around $75. All these prices are for mint pieces with nice, clean boxes.

I guess the folks who did pay $25 would make some money selling theirs if they kept it mint.
Not so much for the people who paid $150.

I finally got one years later for somewhere around $60-$75.

Actually, Harry Henning has two on his table today at York for $50 each . . .

Were they mint, as in brand new, never run or displayed, with nice, clean, crisp boxes?

RonH posted:

Since these were sold right away, does anybody know the price they were sold for?

They were being sold for $47 each.

No. I did not buy one nor was I looking to buy one. It happened to come up at the dinner Thursday night.  Reports were nos. 51 and 52 in line were ok on missing out but no. 53 was ticked.

-Greg

I was on the Lionel line and got one.  And yes I consider it a souvenir not a collectible.  What I thought most interesting about the whole experience was that on the front of the line were several Orange Hall vendors.  Seems a little unfair to me to folks who had to wait outside.    But insiders (literally in this case!) will always have preference in this world.