Lionel Barrel Loader - Need Help - Solved!

Usually, on the post war version anyways, a lower voltage works much better.

Yes, that is a diode. The Postwar version had a rectifier disk in the base too.

When I had a 362 barrel loader with a bad disk on my layout, I just wired up an external rectifier diode.

I guess a bad diode could cause the problem you are experiencing. Do you know how to test the diode?

Last I knew, Radio Shack still carried suitable replacements. Bring the old one with you , and get one that is a similar size. That is a 3 amp, 100 PIV one. A 50 PIV one would be fine too. Here is a link to the datasheet

Guys  A diode lets current flow only one deriction. If you want to test to see if working Take a test lamp with will only light the lamp if the current is flowing in one direction.

If the light light up in both derictions the diode is no good anymore.

Good luck 

The 1N5401 diode is still a common part. Radio Shack may still have them? It is rated at 100v as C.W stated. The higher the last number the higher the voltage 1=100v, 2=200v, etc. They are all the same amperage, 3 amps. You could use a IN5401 or up as they are all higher voltage. Usually not a good idea to go to a lower voltage.

I would send you one, but all I have is 1N5400's which are only 50v. For model trains stuff I think this would more than adequate, but as I said it is usually not a good idea to use lesser rated components for replacements. If one of the electronics guys like GRJ or stan2004 see this and advise the 50v is ok, I would be happy to send you one.

Otherwise, here is one from Digi-Key: http://www.digikey.com/product...N5401FSCT-ND/1532774

They have low shipping rates on small orders if you use USPS First Class, and they ship very fast. Would be nice if you had something else to order with it though, like some bridge rectifiers, resistors, LEDs or something you might happen to be needing. Good to have some extra parts on hand sometimes. 

Keep track of the silver band end and where is was connected, it needs to go back the same way or it won't work. 

quote:

Guys  A diode lets current flow only one deriction. If you want to test to see if working Take a test lamp with will only light the lamp if the current is flowing in one direction.

 

If the light light up in both derictions the diode is no good anymore.

This is true when you test with a D.C. power source. Most of our trains have A.C. power sources. With an AC source the lamp will light regardless of the direction, even with a good diode.

quote:

Keep track of the silver band end and where is was connected, it needs to go back the same way or it won't work. 

On the original Postwar 362 barrel loader, it would not matter which way the diode is installed.

Are the barrels shiny?

A common problem if they are.

Sand all the shine off the barrel ribs, then they should go up the ramp.

I am not as well versed in electronics as some are around here and I don't understand this one, could you explain further?

The diode is in there to reduce the number of magnetic pulses in half.  This is to give the spring time to return and the barrels time to move.  It does not matter if you kill the top of the wave or the bottom, just as long as you have only half as many peaks.  That is why it does not matter which way the diode goes in.

Thanks to everyone who replied.  Would an Ohm meter work to test it?  I tried using one and I got no reading the one way, but when I flipped it around I got some readings.  I guess I can order one and just see if it helps.  Not sure what else to do. 

Ohm meter test should work and it sounds like yours is good from your readings.

David, thanks for the further explanation, I figured it had something to do with half the AC, but was having trouble picturing the workings of it.

Most meters have a diode setting, but reading noting one way and a resistance reading the other way sure sounds like the diode is good.

The fact that they're vibrating suggests what others have stated, either the barrels are a bit on the slippery side or you have too much vibration, or both.  If you have them really bouncing around, they don't go up the ramp.  Mine works best around 11-12 volts, they run right up the ramp.

Is the loader screwed down to the layout?  You may find loosening or tightening the screws could make a difference.  RICH

I tried it from 8 -18 volts and anything below like 14 they barely move at all.  If I put the barrels on the ramp manually they actual look like they are trying to go the opposite direction.  I made sure its level and I tried screwing it down to platform at different tightness's.  Adjusted the coil a million times but there only so many gaps you can adjust it to.  I'm baffled.  This is such a simple design.  The only thing left is the coil itself.  Not sure what else to try.  Hate to throw away a brand new barrel loader but right now its as useful as a brick!  haha

Unfortunately I can't help with the solution (though I am taking notes on all the suggestions!), but I can say I had a similar experience with the re-issued Barrel Loader when I bought it.

I never was able to get it to work (same general results as you describe), so I ended up putting it back in the box for a project another day. 

You are not alone with this one.  One of my few complaints out of all of the  re-issued Post War classic accessories.  Most of my other items worked flawlessly, or at least very well.

-Dave

Have you hooked the diode back up, or are you running without it?

 It really shouldn't have been laying at the bottom and worked "right".

 It would have to be in series (inline) with the coil.

Coil gap should be about a 1/32.... hold on....

http://olsenstoy.com//cd/accs/acc362p1.pdf there you go.

Maybe it was modified or "repaired?

Spring too strong on some? Bent wrong? funny gap?(you want parallel closed).

 Here is a thought. Unscrew the platform spring mounting, and check the springs are near parallel to the mounts when loose. The springs tensions fighting each other, might be hindering spring operation.   

Is the ramp slick?

 Try something sticky on a barrel. Something sugary would rinse off.

Or, if the barrels are sanded too smooth, alcohol, or a short soak in hot water should raise the wood grain, creating a fuzz.   

I think it is always a good idea to read the Lionel factory service manual page(s). Adriatic has already provided a link.

When I adjust a 362 barrel loader (Postwar), I first make certain that the screws which attach the ramp to the base are tight, and that the diode is good.

I set the power supply voltage to around 12 volts.

Then I adjust the gap by moving the coil until it is just far enough away to avoid buzzing. (It will buzz if you turn up the voltage too high).

Also:

As noted in the service manual: Do not fasten down tightly.

I also wonder whether you are using a traditional transformer with a sine wave output.

Who knows how this accessory would work with a different type of power supply.

I fired mine up, at 12V with any of the 20 or so barrels I have, they walk right up the ramp.  As mentioned, you don't want it screwed tightly to the layout, I actually have it operating without being screwed down at all and it works great.  There is a set of track clips that came with the original PW units, they space it from tracks and hold it in place.  The barrel loader in that case is not screwed down at all.  There are also some rubber grommets that it sits on.

Sorry everyone if I was not clear.

The diode was not loose it was attached.  Its a brand new unit. It was sealed in box, I opened it from its factory seal, so it was not used or repaired.  The diode came off when I was taking the bottom plate off the base, the wire is super thin.   I'm using a ZW-L transformer.  It's not fastened to anything, I tried that both ways.  The ramp is brand new untouched so it is not slick and they actually used a flat finish yellow paint on the remakes.  I have shiny and also the non shiny barrels.  But that does not matter because the barrels don't even make it to the ramp, they never leave the loading platform at the bottom.  I have tried voltage from 10 all the way up to 18 to even just see if I could get them to move.  Even at 18 they just bounce around. I made sure the plate is completely vertical with the coil, 1/32 gap. I'll post a video later.

I found this comment about the Lionel ZW_L transformer in another OGR thread:

"Lionel uses a modified Sine wave output and limits voltage to 18V.  Lionel engine with command can be damaged with voltage above 18Vs."

If this comment is correct, I suggest trying a different transformer. Maybe the Barrel loader will not work properly with a modified sine wave power source.
What are other people using to power their 362 barrel loaders?

Here is a thread on power supplies: thread link

Here is the utube video referenced in the other thread. the embedded one does not work for me: video link

The video confirms that the ZW-L uses chopped sine wave. And I would not be surprised if this is the reason your barrel loader does not work properly.