Lionel Legacy vs MTH DCS: which one?

Lionel PE,

   As you can see by this thread most of us eventually purchased both systems, because we like both type engines.  In my Engineering opinion it is easier for a runner to first set up a good DCS layout, and then add legacy to it, than the other way around.  As far as the DCS wiring goes, if you use the correct discipline while building your DCS layout, you will never really have a problem, this is where Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion book is so great.  His exacting written instructions are just fantastic, and he covers how to add TMCC/Legacy to the DCS layout.  IMO Marty F maybe the foremost authority on DCS/Legacy layout building, his experience level & knowledge is just outstanding, and he participates here for you to ask questions of, he has always been very helpful to everybody.  Marty E is the Legacy man, his knowledge is like Marty's F's only on the Legacy side, he participates on the OGR also, and is willing to answer all our questions.  There are others of us who are very knowledgeable also, and we will help you as much as we can, when you decide to add command control to your conventional layouts.

Merry Christmas!

PCRR/Dave 

How is the MTH WiFi app <-->MTH-WiFi device <--> TMCC on Android going?

I'm game enough to try that.

What do I buy? The WIU, TIU, the above cable, and maybe the app?

I believe it starts shipping on 12/19/15  Mine is on order. Youtube has a couple demo videos by Mike Wolf on it. Looks pretty cool. 

Porsche1662 posted:

I have the TH DCS only now and want to run some new Lionel trains. Is it pretty easy to add teh Legacy system ? and then can I run two trains at the same time one MTH the other Lionel ? What do I need to buy other than the Legacy system ? any cables to link the two ? If someone can post a picture of how these two work together I would appreciate it. 

Questions answered in order

1: Yes--one wire connection to the outer rails

2: Yes. If you're willing to perform a juggling act and pay close attention to what they're doing, you could even run them coupled together*

3: If you buy the Legacy system, technically  you don't need to buy anything else, since they only come with the base+remote. The decision is already made for you if you add Legacy.

3a You can purchase the cable pictured above to link the two together if you want to use the DCS remote to run TMCC or Legacy locomotives (but done this way, you don't have access to the full Legacy feature set--only the extent of TMCC features) 

 3b I have a photo of my DCS connected to a TMCC base, but I can't access it till later this evening.

---PCJ

Coke-Pepsi, Pepsi-Coke. Sooner or later you're to have both...

RailRide posted:

Porsche1662 posted:

I have the TH DCS only now and want to run some new Lionel trains. Is it pretty easy to add teh Legacy system ? and then can I run two trains at the same time one MTH the other Lionel ? What do I need to buy other than the Legacy system ? any cables to link the two ? If someone can post a picture of how these two work together I would appreciate it. 

Questions answered in order

1: Yes--one wire connection to the outer rails

2: Yes. If you're willing to perform a juggling act and pay close attention to what they're doing, you could even run them coupled together*

3: If you buy the Legacy system, technically  you don't need to buy anything else, since they only come with the base+remote. The decision is already made for you if you add Legacy.

3a You can purchase the cable pictured above to link the two together if you want to use the DCS remote to run TMCC or Legacy locomotives (but done this way, you don't have access to the full Legacy feature set--only the extent of TMCC features) 

 3b I have a photo of my DCS connected to a TMCC base, but I can't access it till later this evening.

---PCJ

3a You can purchase the cable pictured above to link the two together if you want to use the DCS remote to run TMCC or Legacy locomotives (but done this way, you don't have access to the full Legacy feature set--only the extent of TMCC features) 

So if I skip the cable. ( I want the Lionel to gain feature MTH doesn't have ) I can run both separately on the same track ? Picture  later would be greatly appreciated. Having a hart time visualizing how to wire to the track if its not connected to MTH TIU   

If you have no desire for DCS to run your Lionel command engines the above cable is not needed.  You can take the 1 wire from the Legacy command base and attach it to the outside rail common or the common output of the DCS TIU.  If it's a newer model TIU the commons may need tied together if not done so already.

Porsche1662:  Lionel actually has two Legacy versions of NKP 765....and they're both fantastic, IMHO.  If you haven't already done so, you may want go to YouTube and watch some of the excellent videos of that loco running.  Absolutely tip top, IMHO.

Yes, the one that sold me was the review by Ericstrains however the first video you posted looks like my home town shop Stockyard Express. I didn't know they had any Lionel.

Im stopping by there in the morning since Mike Wolf will be there demoing the new wifi app. and I will see if they can get that one.  They always have a big smile on their faces when they see me come in the door. 

As to the OP's original question, please allow me to add my two cents:

What I don't think gets mentioned enough or that frequently gets forgotten is that Command Control....whatever flavor you prefer....is simply a tool.  It's a tool to operate your model railroad.  The trains and the layout are still the focal point...whether you're running conventionally, Lionel, or MTH.

That said, Command Control does open up a whole new world....if you're up for it.

Porsche1662 posted:

Yes, the one that sold me was the review by Ericstrains however the first video you posted looks like my home town shop Stockyard Express. I didn't know they had any Lionel.

Im stopping by there in the morning since Mike Wolf will be there demoing the new wifi app. and I will see if they can get that one.  They always have a big smile on their faces when they see me come in the door. 

Ha...I didn't see that you live in Olmsted Falls.  I'm in Avon....and yes...that is Stockyard Express.  Great hobby store and great people to be sure.

Perfect ! If I run into issue Ill stop over and pick you up !

Simply put, Command Control regardless of who makes it, let's you experience your layout from entirely different views instead of behind 1 control panel in 1 spot.  It also gives you a variety of features, if that's your thing, that conventional running does not.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.  Different strokes...

Found TMCC to be simpler and more robust; fewer problems getting it to work than with DCS.  Always some problem to resolve or "work-around" with DCS.

For me, as with most other responses came down to what kind of engines I wanted.  I bought Legacy first as I got into the hobby.  I wanted modern diesel engines and MTH has the most to offer, so I have both.  It's nice having both systems.  There are no limits and each one brings something a different kind of enjoyment.

Both. DCS is my primary because MTH engines work a little better for how I like to operate my layout. The Lionel Legacy engines are the beauty queens though. Looks, low speed control and especially sound have the edge on PS2 and PS3. So the PS2's and PS3's are the workers and the Legacy's are the cruisers. Other considerations are the MTH electrocouplers are better -- Legacy can be very stiff out of the box -- and repair/adjustment. I have taken off and easily replaced the shells on many MTH engines. I tried it once on a Legacy and will never do it again (just too tightly packed). But man! the Legacy lights and sound are just fantastic. And as others have said Legacy is a very easy install on top of DCS.

Porsche1662 posted:

Yes, the one that sold me was the review by Ericstrains however the first video you posted looks like my home town shop Stockyard Express. I didn't know they had any Lionel.

Im stopping by there in the morning since Mike Wolf will be there demoing the new wifi app. and I will see if they can get that one.  They always have a big smile on their faces when they see me come in the door. 

Not all the time. When the Vison Line Big Boy, NKP 765 and Polar Express came out they generated a number of orders many of which were mine. The 765 in the video belongs to me. It's a great locomotive but the smoke unit just went out on it again.

I have both DCS and Lionel Legacy. You do not have to hook the command bases together for them to work on the same layout. All you need to do is run the ground wire from the Lionel base to the track and you are good to go. You only really want to do connect them if you want to run the Lionel engines through the DCS remote. In my opinion it is much easier and more functional to use the Lionel remote for the Lionel Legacy or TMCC locomotives and the DCS remote for all of the MTH locomotives. Now however we will soon just be able to use the apps! Think of the possibilities as the new iPad Pros can run two apps at once!

If you would like more of an overview of the MTH Digital Command System check out this video I produced over a year ago of Mike Wolf giving a presentation about DCS at the York Train Meet.

TrainWizard5972 posted:

Not all the time. When the Vison Line Big Boy, NKP 765 and Polar Express came out they generated a number of orders many of which were mine. The 765 in the video belongs to me. It's a great locomotive but the smoke unit just went out on it again.

Hey there!!  I actually met you in the store last December or January on a Saturday.  You were patient enough to answer some of my basic MTH/DCS questions. 

IIRC, didn't you actually scenic one or both of the operating layouts at Stockyard Express?

For me the decision was simple, I had apparently picked up a few TMCC locos that were mis labeled as conventional, lucky me.  I had zero DCS locos.  So the choice was easy, the lionel system.  At the time there was Lionel, Weaver, Atlas and K-line all working off of the same system.  MTH remains , I think, a solo act.  Since I am in this for the trains not the technology the Lionel system was my choice.  If you want both systems and there are advocates of both, prepare to spend up front.