Lionel Locomotive Best Suited for Super O?

Greetings Dave--

Thanks for your interest in taking the time to reply. Here is a photo of the layout, with "star" annotations. It is all one loop. The train drops down the 9-10% grade and then shoots out from the portal that's between the two purple stars in this photo. Though it cannot be discerned from the photo (this layout is only at the stage where I have applied gauze wrap) there is a depression to the "south" of the route here that will be a frozen lake. More often than not, my 681 and 682 engines end up in here after they fly off the track.

The orange star shows where I have the S-curve that causes pilot truck derailing on my 2036.

As you mentioned, I think I will attempt to put a shim underneath the homasote so as to bank the curve, but the problem is that I have 1/16" to work with at very most before the track above begins to interfere with the smokestack on the caboose...

Desert Center CA,

We all like your layout and are trying to help. I, for one, cannot understand your reluctance to correct the grade issue. If you cut along the top with a knife or loose hacksaw blade, you can remove the side terrain panel and have access to the trouble area. That scenery cut can be repaired without a lot of trouble.

I went back to the layout build thread and grabbed the photos. Just before the curve in question the grade abruptly transitions to flat. The 681/682 most likely have their pilots hitting. This was already suggested.

The tunnel S where the 2026 derails is on an incline and has the weight off of the pilot truck. The photo may be deceiving, but it looks as if there is a dip, track joint bump and level section on the inner rail.

Adjust the grade for a better transition to level just before the tunnel curve(because you have no clearance to work with)  should resolve the 681/682 issues.

There have already been some good suggestions to help the pilot on the 2026. Perhaps checking that track joint would help also.

Your problem with downhill speed is that postwar locos freewheel. A modern loco with a can motor won't usually roll on its own so it is much less susceptible to being pushed downhill. As far as the dreaded S bend the shorter the loco the better.  The pilot truck or rear truck may not have enough lateral movement going through the S bend. If the trailing truck can't move far enough the tender tends to pull the nose of the loco off line causing derailment. The truck spring could also be weak allowing it to jump around when the loco is snapped back and forth going through the S. Looking at the photo the S bend is not level with a bad dip and a loose track clip, maybe a bad combination for this area. As has been already mentioned a two truck diesel would probably work better on these curves.

Hi Carl--

Naturally I understand, and I am most grateful for this site, where others are so generously taking the time to offer their advice and share their wealth of experience.

When I get back from work (desk job at the small local PD) I will dig up a photo taken of the layout before I started with any of the landscaping so you can fully see the route. If I were to make it a gentler grade, then that would affect the clearance of the track passing underneath it. Believe me...I spent quite a bit of time engineering this, and I did not haphazardly select such a steep grade. My error was in testing, where I foolishly ran my two turbine locomotives pulling only a tender, my widest freight car, and my tallest-smokestack-equipped caboose: for whatever reason, I didn't think to try out the full consist of tender, 3 cars, and caboose. In pondering now, my best bet might be to remove the homasote bed at this particular area, and bank the curved section in question by taking a belt sander to the underside of the homasote, creating a bank to the inside. Sort of an inversion to putting a shim to the outer edge of the curve--rather than building up to create a bank, I will thus be lowering down the inside edge of the curve.

I don't believe it's an issue with the pilots hitting, because running it with a consist of a tender and 2 cars, the 681 and 682 make it through the entire layout problem-free. The little bit of added weight via extra cars causes the loco to derail when coming of out the drop and flying around the curve. I think.

Are you loco's derailing coming from the tunnel on the right in the picture ??   The track looks odd right at the end of the sweeping left of the S curves.   Just about where the highest purple star is. 

Hi Carl--

Wow; those pictures weren't showing up from my computer at work, but yes; I posted those awhile back. 

They are traveling left to right from out of the portal between the purple stars. That's where the loco will fly off the track if pulling more than 2 cars. The orange star shows the portal where the "S curve" is, and where the train comes out of. The route has leveled out by that point, and while the heavier 681 & 682 turbines have no problem at this spot, the pilot truck of the lighter 2036 locomotive jumps off the track here.

A very steep grade on a sharp curve results in a significant twist (out of horizontal) in the railheads (i.e., a small level placed across the track will indicate that the track is not level). This can easily  lead to derailments regardless of which kind of engine is used.

Hal

It is amazing to watch trains run on the track and see what is actually going on. Plus, video tape it so you can rewind if you want. Before I did anything radical and spend $$ on another loco I would do a complete analysis of the track. do not assume anything-suspect everything. If need be, for more clearance take the caboose stack off or get another caboose so you can elevate that spot to see if it can be corrected. Do you have someone else to look at it besides yourself ?? Amazing what a second set of eyes can see that you miss. And they don't have to be an expert.  Good luck.

How about a separate electrical bloc for the down grade that is at a lower voltage to eat the speed?

Desert Center CA posted:

Hi Carl--

Naturally I understand, and I am most grateful for this site, where others are so generously taking the time to offer their advice and share their wealth of experience.

When I get back from work (desk job at the small local PD) I will dig up a photo taken of the layout before I started with any of the landscaping so you can fully see the route. If I were to make it a gentler grade, then that would affect the clearance of the track passing underneath it. Believe me...I spent quite a bit of time engineering this, and I did not haphazardly select such a steep grade. My error was in testing, where I foolishly ran my two turbine locomotives pulling only a tender, my widest freight car, and my tallest-smokestack-equipped caboose: for whatever reason, I didn't think to try out the full consist of tender, 3 cars, and caboose. In pondering now, my best bet might be to remove the homasote bed at this particular area, and bank the curved section in question by taking a belt sander to the underside of the homasote, creating a bank to the inside. Sort of an inversion to putting a shim to the outer edge of the curve--rather than building up to create a bank, I will thus be lowering down the inside edge of the curve.

I don't believe it's an issue with the pilots hitting, because running it with a consist of a tender and 2 cars, the 681 and 682 make it through the entire layout problem-free. The little bit of added weight via extra cars causes the loco to derail when coming of out the drop and flying around the curve. I think.

leaving the layout track as it is with the equipment that you are running sounds like an engineer must be at the controls at all times managing the speeds.

Will they coast down the incline and derail with no power?