Lionel Oil Derrick - 6-83240, no adapter, can plug be cut?

Lionel's infinite wisdom was to start charging extra for the pigtail.  They may have actually originally started with that concept for all of plugnplay, but then included the pigtail with a few of the earlier plugnplay items, most likely to take the sting away and not have hobbyists shun plugnplay from the beginning.  The company sales pitch claims that they are targeting new people who can't solder or even strip wires, but are anxious to pay additional money for the plugnplay connector track to add to their FasTrack.

Like you, I have several items that came with it, I think the Control Tower, Burning Switch Tower and Track Gang in my case.

Technically, cutting the plug will work fine.  Re-sale wise, if you were trying to sell the Derrick to me, it would cause the sale to not happen.   You need to choose the right path for yourself.

The colors on the plug should match the colors that are referred to in the manual for the pigtails ("hooking up to tubular track" calls out using red and black for simple accessories with just hot and ground connections.  you ignore the white wire).  Since I've not dissected one I can't confirm. 

If you decide to do this, you may want to start by trimming away the outer jacket first and then cutting one wire at a time, leaving enough on the connector so you can strip and confirm which color wires go to which of the three positions on the connector.  (Using an ohmmeter, check the first clipped wire and confirm which pin is for that wire, then proceed with the other 2)  You can then cross-check with the pigtail you do have to confirm where each wire should go (just hot or common in your case).

Since I don't have the derrick, I can't comment on your question #2.

-Dave

Thanks Dave.  Sound advice.  Yeah, I guess the best thing to do is just order the pigtail.  Makes sense not to cut the thing, even though it's doable.  I can spend a few bucks to make it perfect and I can wait a week....don't want to though, those friggin' guys...

Jerry

Now that I think of it, what better place to say, "On with MTH, on with Menards."  The LCP stuff is very nice, but, hope someone is listening.

Jerry, a Lionel guy from 1958, but, not in the past two years...

My gantry crane sound house did not come with the adapter cord for the PnP plug. That was I believe $10 msrp extra for an 8" pigtail, plus shipping which from Lionel is another $9 or $10. Now we are up to around $20 or so total in addition the the $150 msrp for the sound house. That makes it $170 total. 

There was a pair of wire cutters nearby, right there on the bench, guess what happened next. IIRC my method of connection was also described in the manual and it showed that only the red and black wires were used and the white one was not used (on this device, I'm sure others could be different and some may use the white wire), FWIW. If they are going to stick with this PnP stuff they should either include the pigtail, sell it for a couple of bucks with free shipping or offer 2 different versions, one with and one without PnP.

rtr12 posted:

My gantry crane sound house did not come with the adapter cord for the PnP plug. That was I believe $10 msrp extra for an 8" pigtail, plus shipping which from Lionel is another $9 or $10. Now we are up to around $20 or so total in addition the the $150 msrp for the sound house. That makes it $170 total. 

There was a pair of wire cutters nearby, right there on the bench, guess what happened next. IIRC my method of connection was also described in the manual and it showed that only the red and black wires were used and the white one was not used (on this device, I'm sure others could be different and some may use the white wire), FWIW. If they are going to stick with this PnP stuff they should either include the pigtail, sell it for a couple of bucks with free shipping or offer 2 different versions, one with and one without PnP.

Same story with me for the new Lumber Shack accessory. I was NOT pleased to have to call Lionel and order a pigtail adapter cord plus pay an equal amount in shipping. As you said, $20 more total. I won't be buying anymore accessories, that's for sure!

Not defending this at all (should be obvious from my first post in this thread), but for those of you mentioning ordering the pigtail from Lionel and paying shipping, if you have a hobby shop anywhere near you, this is an off the shelf item(6-82038).  (though it's possible some stores may be out of stock after Christmas, I am sure - I don't think I saw them at my LHS on Monday when I picked up my crane and work house).

Seeing this coming for an item or 2 I had on order, I purchased a couple of the pig tails when I saw them at a local train meet in late November, even though they were full MSRP. For 20 bucks I figured it was worth having a few around.

rtr12 posted:

.................. FWIW. If they are going to stick with this PnP stuff they should either include the pigtail, sell it for a couple of bucks with free shipping or offer 2 different versions, one with and one without PnP.

I proposed some of the ideas rtr12 suggests above to Lionel back when they announced this, and the typical answer from the person doing the presentation (you all can guess who) was to "just cut the plug off". 

Lionel is trying to attract those with absolutely ZERO technical ability, so including the pigtail for FT hookup in the box unconnected was not an option for them, it had to come out of the box ready to plug into the FT section.  I'm not sure how such people deal with unwrapping the twist tie that holds the wrapped up cord to the other side of the plastic packaging - that could be a serious challenge too.  

Only time will tell (and no one outside of Lionel can even guess) if this situation actually causes more sales to folks with zero tech ability. ("top of the funnel" from the old Jerry Calabrese speech/concept)

Unless the plugnplay accessory sales drop through the floor in the near future, I suspect we are stuck with this for a while.

Aside from a single additional assembly step at the factory (which I guess is one more chance for a wiring error/screw up), it would have seemed very simple for them to keep the original tooling (or implement similar for the new items) with the spring clips and just ship the units with a pig tail attached to the spring clips for the new FasTrack piece.  It would have then been very easy for more serious hobbyists to simply remove the plug from the spring clips and use their own wires the same way we have been for years.  Not 100% ideal since we would still be paying for the connector we had no intention of using, but it would have been far preferable to the messed up scenario we have now if we want to use the item without modifying it.

-Dave

JerryG posted:

Just got this yesterday.  Looks good, but those cheapskates failed to include the 3-prong adapter.  Said to order separately.  I bet the vendor doesn't even know it's not included.  I was shocked because I have the large playground set (great accessory when scenery is added) and it came with the extra plug adapter.  Connected them and just wired that into my accessory bus.  I use gargraves on the new elevated mains and tubular O on the old mains so I can't plug it in to fast track.  

1.)  Can I cut the adapter and just wire it in?  Where does the third wire go? I don't want to cut it off unless you guys say it's ok.  Also, don't want to wait days for an adapter order to come in.

2.)  The pump doesn't always go all the way up with that prong underneath that the motor turns in a circle and moves a bar (thus the pump) up and down.  Has anyone connected the two to avoid this problem?  Seems easy enough, but you guys usually have ideas that I hadn't thought of.

Jerry

Well, I know it doesn't help you, but the catalog description states the cables are not included. (see attached) I would be tempted to check the pigtail that you have and determine which two pins are AC. One pin is most likely common or ground, one AC hot and the third is DC +

I can't tell from a manual. A simple continuity test. Then you could alligator clip or a small dab of solder to the correct pins without wasting the connector.

If you want to cut it off, it would identify the AC wire locations. Then you know which two to use after it's cut-off.

OK, L did not think of something else.  If you put TOO MANY of these PNP things from the track, the trains will not have enough power to run!  And if you have a short, one will have to take EVERYTHING apart to find it.  (Unless it is a derailment.)

Dominic Mazoch posted:

OK, L did not think of something else.  If you put TOO MANY of these PNP things from the track, the trains will not have enough power to run!  And if you have a short, one will have to take EVERYTHING apart to find it.  (Unless it is a derailment.)

Another good point that is not discussed enough.

Most of us ended up using a separate voltage source instead of the track for our accessories once we got a few. 

This PNP deal totally ignores that good practice. 

If the attraction of the larger group of people Lionel is courting with no technical skills does in fact happen, we should someday see some posts asking why the train will no longer run with 15 accessories wired in to the track.

For every one new customer that gets to that level of involvement, there are probably a dozen or two with just a single gateman or playground swing wired up to the track.  If those are all customers Lionel didn't have before, they will probably consider it a success.

-Dave

I certainly agree with all of you folks above on the PnP connectors. You all have some great suggestions and points made on this as well. My LHS sometimes has the pigtails I think, but they sell those things for MSRP, no discount. Probably only around $11 or so with sales tax, but still more than I am willing to spend on something like this. You can get a 25' - 16/3 extension cord at Home Depot for $9.68 with a molded plug on each end, less than this 8" adapter cord.

For me personally, I like Lionel's command control accessories and I will continue to purchase these items because I think they are neat, great additions to our layouts and great for the kids (and grandpa) to play with, but I have plenty of wire cutters laying around and won't be using the PnP plug in devices. As for the resale value, IMO there are plenty of folks out there that don't use Fastrack and won't want the new PnP plugs either so I am saving them wear and tear on their wire cutters.

FWIW, the pin outs to wire colors of the PnP plug is - white (left) - red (center) - black (right) That is as you are looking into the end of the plug with the silver connecting pins facing up so you can see them. If anyone is interested.