Rusty Traque posted:The 736 looks closer to the Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo 2-8-4's.
Wow you're right! And there is no mention of the TH&B Berks on steamlocomotive.com. I wonder what size driving wheels they used?
Holy crap - Rusty and Ted are right - TH&B berkshire does look similar to a 736
Hey Lionel - how about a scale TH&B berk ? - Please 
Rider Sandman posted:Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:I was looking through the catalog last night and looked at the black GSs. I was caught by the SP Lines GS-2. I really like the blacked out appearance. Figured they would probably get the color right. Old friend (train store) in Chicago could use the business. Done deal. I hope I am finished😂
With the order deadline still weeks away, there is no way you can declare yourself finished ......
HA!!!!!!
True enough for many of us. 
Ted S posted:Rusty Traque posted:The 736 looks closer to the Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo 2-8-4's.
Wow you're right! And there is no mention of the TH&B Berks on steamlocomotive.com. I wonder what size driving wheels they used?
Drivers were 63"
Rusty
Well for me personally I was excited to see the GS-1 being done as it’s been on my list for years.
i put my preorder in for the 4403 and the GS-4 freight set !
ouch !!!!!
Just in case you didn't see the Ryan & Dave show the other day, Ryan said that the milk cars returned. Some are new, others are from the 2016 Volume 2 catalog. He also said that if you ordered any of them from the 2016 V2 catalog, that the order is still in(assuming you didn't cancel it).
Too picture is the 2016 volume 2 catalog, followed by the 2020 whole page spread of all the milk cars, and the the 5 that are from the 2016 catalog. The old ones begin with 6- numbers, new ones all with 20 numbers. Please be sure to check with your local train store if you ordered from the 2016 catalog as they may not know about this and also to see if you have them still on order.
Wine car is new.
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MartyE posted:This is one of the highlights IMO. If this set doesn't sell well I have no answers.
What are they covering up on the rear of the F3's??? Looks like the Amtrak Cabbage Doors...Hmmmmmmm
Some of those Milk Cars were even before 2016. There were 4 of them on pages 40-41 of 2015 Volume 2.
-Dave
I wonder what color the roof on the B&O milk car will be? The drawing from the 2016 catalog shows it in black and it's blue in the latest rendering. I think I like the contrast from the black although I have no idea what the prototype had or if there was a prototype of this car.
irish rifle posted:BobbyD posted:irish rifle posted:Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again.
Pat
Are they resurrecting the good sprung trucks with hidden uncoupler tab?
IIRC all they are doing is getting rid of the thumbtack knuckle and making a tab activated knuckle using the same unsprung with plastic truck.
I hope you are right. Maybe one of the Lionel team will post what exactly they are making.
What I indicated was written in pp. 40-41 in the catalog. The language is not as precise in subsequent pages where there are scale freight cars. I will confirm with Ryan at the Amherst Train Show this weekend.
Pat
I spoke to Ryan today. Mixed bag. The good news is that the thumb tack couplers are gone on all of the scale freight cars in the catalog and are being replaced by hidden uncoupling tabs. The picture of the hoppers in the catalog showing thumb tack couplers is incorrect. The bad news is that while the trucks will be diecast, they will not be sprung, so they will not track as well as the trucks Lionel utilized for many years. The language is several sections of the catalog, such as in pp. 40-41, indicating that the trucks will be sprung, is inaccurate.
Pat
Will LIONEL be at the WGH show in Hampton, VA in February? If so, I'll ask, in writing, that they put an errata page on the website along with the catalog identifying the known catalog errors.
Of course, emails to LIONEL folks requesting some mechanism to alert folks to the catalog errors would also be prudent
I would like to get the TRAILER TRAIN center beam flat cars.
Andrew
irish rifle postedI spoke to Ryan today. Mixed bag. The good news is that the thumb tack couplers are gone on all of the scale freight cars in the catalog and are being replaced by hidden uncoupling tabs. The picture of the hoppers in the catalog showing thumb tack couplers is incorrect. The bad news is that while the trucks will be diecast, they will not be sprung, so they will not track as well as the trucks Lionel utilized for many years. The language is several sections of the catalog, such as in pp. 40-41, indicating that the trucks will be sprung, is inaccurate.
Pat
In other words just like post war trucks. No thumb tacks, no springs.
Pete
Was happy to see hidden uncoupling tabs again, now we'll have to see what the trucks look like. I like the PRR B6sb with long tender, doing some research on the road number to ensure accuracy and period. I also like the PRR FM Trainmaster set, just without the Trainmaster . Debating the Vision Line reefers too, sounds are cool and I like the features but I could get tired of the foreman's voice pretty quickly. Might just buy 2 or 3 of the sound boxcars from a couple of years ago with the clattering and screetching sounds as they go down the track.
irish rifle posted:irish rifle posted:BobbyD posted:irish rifle posted:Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again.
Pat
Are they resurrecting the good sprung trucks with hidden uncoupler tab?
IIRC all they are doing is getting rid of the thumbtack knuckle and making a tab activated knuckle using the same unsprung with plastic truck.
I hope you are right. Maybe one of the Lionel team will post what exactly they are making.
What I indicated was written in pp. 40-41 in the catalog. The language is not as precise in subsequent pages where there are scale freight cars. I will confirm with Ryan at the Amherst Train Show this weekend.
Pat
I spoke to Ryan today. Mixed bag. The good news is that the thumb tack couplers are gone on all of the scale freight cars in the catalog and are being replaced by hidden uncoupling tabs. The picture of the hoppers in the catalog showing thumb tack couplers is incorrect. The bad news is that while the trucks will be diecast, they will not be sprung, so they will not track as well as the trucks Lionel utilized for many years. The language is several sections of the catalog, such as in pp. 40-41, indicating that the trucks will be sprung, is inaccurate.
Pat
I have held off buying any Standard O freight since Lionel shifted to thumbtacks and non-sprung trucks with ornamental springs. I am ready to buy again since the thumbtacks are gone but disappointed they did not go back to the original truck design. Is it because they are so committed to the this 2 rail conversion path they went down? Tooling lost? Did Ryan give the reason why?
Steims posted:irish rifle posted:I spoke to Ryan today. Mixed bag. The good news is that the thumb tack couplers are gone on all of the scale freight cars in the catalog and are being replaced by hidden uncoupling tabs. The picture of the hoppers in the catalog showing thumb tack couplers is incorrect. The bad news is that while the trucks will be diecast, they will not be sprung, so they will not track as well as the trucks Lionel utilized for many years. The language is several sections of the catalog, such as in pp. 40-41, indicating that the trucks will be sprung, is inaccurate.
Pat
I have held off buying any Standard O freight since Lionel shifted to thumbtacks and non-sprung trucks with ornamental springs. I am ready to buy again since the thumbtacks are gone but disappointed they did not go back to the original truck design. Is it because they are so committed to the this 2 rail conversion path they went down? Tooling lost? Did Ryan give the reason why?
While I've probably bought a piece or more of rolling stock without sprung trucks recently, I didn't realize it was a widespread change. (I always understood it was different for a few cars that specifically called for a different truck, like some cabooses).
Sprung trucks have been for the most part standard for so long (at least on mid to high end pieces, I'm not suggesting every piece in a starter set should have them).
I'm not a fan of them "casually" going away and having the catalog copy (hopefully unintentionally due to cut and paste laziness) mislead us about it. 
-Dave
Dave45681 posted:Steims posted:irish rifle posted:I spoke to Ryan today. Mixed bag. The good news is that the thumb tack couplers are gone on all of the scale freight cars in the catalog and are being replaced by hidden uncoupling tabs. The picture of the hoppers in the catalog showing thumb tack couplers is incorrect. The bad news is that while the trucks will be diecast, they will not be sprung, so they will not track as well as the trucks Lionel utilized for many years. The language is several sections of the catalog, such as in pp. 40-41, indicating that the trucks will be sprung, is inaccurate.
Pat
I have held off buying any Standard O freight since Lionel shifted to thumbtacks and non-sprung trucks with ornamental springs. I am ready to buy again since the thumbtacks are gone but disappointed they did not go back to the original truck design. Is it because they are so committed to the this 2 rail conversion path they went down? Tooling lost? Did Ryan give the reason why?
While I've probably bought a piece or more of rolling stock without sprung trucks recently, I didn't realize it was a widespread change. (I always understood it was different for a few cars that specifically called for a different truck, like some cabooses).
Sprung trucks have been for the most part standard for so long (at least on mid to high end pieces, I'm not suggesting every piece in a starter set should have them).
I'm not a fan of them "casually" going away and having the catalog copy (hopefully unintentionally due to cut and paste laziness) lie to us about it.
-Dave
Easy there @dave45681, calling Lionel [misleading] will get this thread shutdown quick. Even though truck considerations may play into what customers will order out of the 2020 catalogue, I think it's probably time to break that issue out into another thread. I will start one. (Hey Lionel - Talk To Us About New 2020 Trucks)
Fair enough. Not my intention, I removed the "l" word and changed it to something less aggressive.
palallin posted:Ted S posted:I'm not sure how well-researched the CTT article was, but IMO a 736 looks NOTHING like a B&A Berk. The 736 succeeded the 726, which in turn put the prewar superstructure of the 226E on a new 8-wheel chassis.
Which class? The B&A had 3 different types.
I am currently looking at a pic of a B&A Class A1c Berkshire, and the resemblance is pretty doggone good.
The CTT article is on pages 58-9 of the Feb 1997 issue.
rthomps posted:Rider Sandman posted:Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:I was looking through the catalog last night and looked at the black GSs. I was caught by the SP Lines GS-2. I really like the blacked out appearance. Figured they would probably get the color right. Old friend (train store) in Chicago could use the business. Done deal. I hope I am finished😂
With the order deadline still weeks away, there is no way you can declare yourself finished ......
HA!!!!!!
True enough for many of us.
One more look tonight. I ordered the black GS-2 with the small lettering. I’m hoping to come up with something prototypical to pull from future catalog(s). I would like something dark and brooding to match the look of the engine. This is going to be an adventure.
Steims posted:irish rifle posted:irish rifle posted:BobbyD posted:irish rifle posted:Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again.
Pat
Are they resurrecting the good sprung trucks with hidden uncoupler tab?
IIRC all they are doing is getting rid of the thumbtack knuckle and making a tab activated knuckle using the same unsprung with plastic truck.
I hope you are right. Maybe one of the Lionel team will post what exactly they are making.
What I indicated was written in pp. 40-41 in the catalog. The language is not as precise in subsequent pages where there are scale freight cars. I will confirm with Ryan at the Amherst Train Show this weekend.
Pat
I spoke to Ryan today. Mixed bag. The good news is that the thumb tack couplers are gone on all of the scale freight cars in the catalog and are being replaced by hidden uncoupling tabs. The picture of the hoppers in the catalog showing thumb tack couplers is incorrect. The bad news is that while the trucks will be diecast, they will not be sprung, so they will not track as well as the trucks Lionel utilized for many years. The language is several sections of the catalog, such as in pp. 40-41, indicating that the trucks will be sprung, is inaccurate.
Pat
I have held off buying any Standard O freight since Lionel shifted to thumbtacks and non-sprung trucks with ornamental springs. I am ready to buy again since the thumbtacks are gone but disappointed they did not go back to the original truck design. Is it because they are so committed to the this 2 rail conversion path they went down? Tooling lost? Did Ryan give the reason why?
Good questions. Ryan did not provide any color around the answers he provided to my questions and I did not follow up with him. However, in a prior discussion I had with Ryan a while back concerning the trucks, I recall that he indicated that Lionel had changed the tooling.
Hopefully, Ryan or Dave can comment further on these questions.
Pat
I discussed a couple of other matters with Ryan around when E8s and the scale freight cars would be delivered to the dealers. Ryan estimated that the scale freight cars would be delivered during the Summer and the E8s would be delivered in the Fall.
Pat
Do folks who order the unpainted steam such as the new GS 1, leave them and run that way or do they get painted? Never thought I would get one but am leaning hard now.
wb47 posted:Do folks who order the unpainted steam such as the new GS 1, leave them and run that way or do they get painted? Never thought I would get one but am leaning hard now.
I'm pretty sure in previous discussions along those lines for other "pilot" offerings, the pilot versions are not just raw unpainted metal surface - they have some sort of clear finish on them to protect the metal. As such, it would not be practical to paint them for your chosen design (or at least not without having to go to a lot of trouble to do it).
Someone else will hopefully confirm my memory here.
-Dave
I really like the Lionel Limited, but at $3800.00, I'll have to pass on it. Other than that, the Christmas Story box car looks good to me, so that's probably all I'll order.
John
O gauge GREAT NORTHERN bulkhead flat car to match the O gauge GREAT NORTHERN auto carrier, live stock car and 4-bay hopper from Lionel.
Andrew
I was hoping to get two SOO LINE SD40 locomotives in the original 1968-1972 paint scheme.
What they have is the 1990's CP Rail System paint scheme on two SOO SD40 locomotives.
Close, but not exactly what I was hoping for this time.
I was hoping for a 1980's Safety Yellow Chicago & North Western SD60 single or pair of locomotives.
They have instead is an Original 1960's yellow Chicago & North Western SD40 pair of locos.
Andrew
Having no Lionel E or F units in my collection, I have a quick question on something that has not been discussed: does a "fixed pilot" option from Lionel exist, or do you have to make this modification on your own?
Just when I am convinced I need nothing more, those Frisco Famous Horse locos appear.
Rob Leese posted:Having no Lionel E or F units in my collection, I have a quick question on something that has not been discussed: does a "fixed pilot" option from Lionel exist, or do you have to make this modification on your own?
Just when I am convinced I need nothing more, those Frisco Famous Horse locos appear.
I think that if you mean a pilot that is fixed in the sense that it does not swing with the truck mounted behind it, that is certainly not the norm with Lionel/MTH diesels and I can’t think of an instance when they have offered that as an option. I stand to be corrected about that but none of my Lionel/MTH diesels have that feature - however they are all 3rail O gauge models. 2rail models are different and often include a fixed pilot.
On the other hand, a “closed” pilot without a standard lobster claw coupler sticking through it is a modification lots of people make and 3rd Rail Sunset 3rail diesels commonly come with an alternative pilot of this kind for lead engines. The examples of that I have got are ones in which the coupler is removed and a closed pilot is screwed to the forward part of the frame. It does not move with the truck. The engine on the right of this photo has this option installed. The one on the left shows the standard Lionel pilot arrangement.
I recall that Lionel made VL ES44ACs where all of the pilot including the deck, handrails, stairs and ditch lights was designed to move with the truck, which is a slightly more realistic version of the part.
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I ordered the LC war bond Southern engine, both numbers of the Ford TOFC, the ford coal hopper cars, and the "FAKE NEWS" stand! Still waiting on the LC+2.0 Southern Berkshire that I actually ordered last year but finally made it to the catalog this year.
Jim
Anyone know the catalog ordering cutoff?
Hancock52 posted:Rob Leese posted:Having no Lionel E or F units in my collection, I have a quick question on something that has not been discussed: does a "fixed pilot" option from Lionel exist, or do you have to make this modification on your own?
Just when I am convinced I need nothing more, those Frisco Famous Horse locos appear.
I think that if you mean a pilot that is fixed in the sense that it does not swing with the truck mounted behind it, that is certainly not the norm with Lionel/MTH diesels and I can’t think of an instance when they have offered that as an option. I stand to be corrected about that but none of my Lionel/MTH diesels have that feature - however they are all 3rail O gauge models. 2rail models are different and often include a fixed pilot.
On the other hand, a “closed” pilot without a standard lobster claw coupler sticking through it is a modification lots of people make and 3rd Rail Sunset 3rail diesels commonly come with an alternative pilot of this kind for lead engines. The examples of that I have got are ones in which the coupler is removed and a closed pilot is screwed to the forward part of the frame. It does not move with the truck. The engine on the right of this photo has this option installed. The one on the left shows the standard Lionel pilot arrangement.
I recall that Lionel made VL ES44ACs where all of the pilot including the deck, handrails, stairs and ditch lights was designed to move with the truck, which is a slightly more realistic version of the part.
Hancock52 while it is not the norm MTH does offer fixed pilots on certain Diesels they are list as 22-xxxx-2 and they list as 2 rail but because they have the 3-2 truck offerings they can be converted to run as a 3 rail engine with fixed pilots. Lionel does not offer this feature. So I usually buy the MTH 2 rail versions and convert to 3 rail when its possible. I just purchased SF F7 units this way and they also do F3 unit in this manner as well.
So Rob Leese if at all interested I am pretty sure there are still some these MTH F7 unit still instock at MTH depending on the road name you are looking for.
The Lionel diesel switchers have fixed pilots (NW2, S2, gensets ect) and I believe the Williams 44 ton switcher also has fixed pilots. Of course on those engines the minimum curve isn't affected all that much. I wish the MTH switcher had fixed pilots as well.
I would like to get the UNION PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS mechanical refrigerator with sounds and steam effect, plus either the Santa Fe or SPFE version.
Andrew
Too bad the Train Masters don’t have the kinematic pilots. I’m thinking about the Virginian.
John Hon posted:Too bad the Train Masters don’t have the kinematic pilots. I’m thinking about the Virginian.
I think they eliminated the spinning roof fans the CCII models had too(doesn't seem to be in the features list). Not that that was a major feature, but they were somewhat cool when they worked right (I might have one that stutters a bit in one of the CC models).
-Dave
Originally being from Schenectady, I decided to bite the bullet and order the B&M passenger set as I don't have any e-units in the collection and the length of the consist is "right" for my 9' X 14' layout. The 18" passenger cars should be a good fit for my 0-90 curves.
Due to my budget I'm torn between the GS-1 Pilot OR the GS-4 Freight Set. I cannot do both....but of course I like both.... so I'm still trying to decide which to order. What to do? What to do?
Xavier posted:Due to my budget I'm torn between the GS-1 Pilot OR the GS-4 Freight Set. I cannot do both....but of course I like both.... so I'm still trying to decide which to order. What to do? What to do?
Get the GS-1 Pilot. It is a unique model and probably will not be made again whereas the more common GS versions are bount to be rerun in a couple of years. You can always buy the cars that are in the set at some point.
