Hi Guys, As the original designer of the Smoke Loader I would be interested in how your using it.

Hint: best way to get the loader up and running the first time. Program the unit, then put Run/Program switch in program mode hold down the brake key to prime the pump, this will get you up and running fast. don't forget to put something under the spout as it will stream fluid. It's always best to start this way for a given Train running session.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Original Post

I just received mine yesterday... I took it downstairs this morning.  I am having a problem getting the pump to move fluid...I didn't have a bunch of time before work.But I did try to get the pump into "drain mode" It ran for a second but will not run any longer in that configuration. It does burst still when in "run" mode. But still no fluid. I also took the liberty of using a straw and "gently" blowing into the reservoir and i have fluid at the end of the discharge nozzle so the pump is primed...Not sure why no fluid...????  I will look at it again tomorrow ..(I'm at work). 

Keith podolan

A really quick iPhone video to demo for those who don't have one.  I primed mine the way Ernie suggested and so far it works great.  One question is how much fluid will the reservoir hold?  I don't want to overfill.  

Still playing with location and height adjustments.

Ernie, I received my smoke loader on Monday last week. I finally got a chance to add it to my railroad on Friday. The boom operates fine with my Cab 2 and my lcs app. I cannot get the pump to prime even after I discovered your post which suggested using the program switch I only let it run about thirty seconds. Don't know if that is enough or not. I put about 4 ounces of fluid in the tank. Also I noticed a three position switch on the top of the pump. Does its position matter? Thanks

 

Tom

Lionel2341 posted:

Hi Guys, As the original designer of the Smoke Loader I would be interested in how your using it.

Hint: best way to get the loader up and running the first time. Program the unit, then put Run/Program switch in program mode hold down the brake key to prime the pump, this will get you up and running fast. don't forget to put something under the spout as it will stream fluid. It's always best to start this way for a given Train running session.

Ernie

How long does it take? What is that switch inside?

Poor documentation...kind of a mystery product. Who wrote the manual?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Ottawa Biker posted:

Ernie, I received my smoke loader on Monday last week. I finally got a chance to add it to my railroad on Friday. The boom operates fine with my Cab 2 and my lcs app. I cannot get the pump to prime even after I discovered your post which suggested using the program switch I only let it run about thirty seconds. Don't know if that is enough or not. I put about 4 ounces of fluid in the tank. Also I noticed a three position switch on the top of the pump. Does its position matter? Thanks

 

Tom

For the first time I decided to try the Smoke Fluid Loader out to see if it pumped fluid since your's obviously does not. I put 2 oz of fluid, a whole bottle of Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid in it and cannot get it to pump any out. I tried the streaming method with the Prog/Run switch in Prog and clearly hear the pump running fast, but nothing comes out. So then I put a piece of windshield washer hose on the output stem and sucked while running the pump and got a mouth full of Smoke Fluid. So I put the arm back on and ran the "streaming in Prog mode" again for a minute and still nothing. Surely it's primed now since I brought the fluid all the way out of the stem coming out of the roof. The pump just does not pump but obviously the fluid is able to come thru the pipes if I suck on it.

Are there pump seals that need to soak up fluid...? Kind of frustrating, eh?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

AH HA! I SEE WHAT IS WRONG! I sucked gently and brought some bubbles and fluid up the transparent hoses inside the little house. Then I ran the pump and the pump sucked the fluid and tiny bubbles back down. The hoses are clearly hooked up backwards or is that something with the inside switch?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

IT'S THE INSIDE SWITCH which has to be switched AWAY from the OUTSIDE WALL so the pump will suck fluid out of the tank instead of running it back into the tank. I think the pump switch is switched toward the inside of the house for pumping fluid, in the middle position probably for off, and toward the outside wall for back pumping.

Anyway it works now...after I rewrote the manual.

BTW, the switch on mine came in the wrong position from new.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

cjack posted:

IT'S THE INSIDE SWITCH which has to be switched AWAY from the OUTSIDE WALL so the pump will suck fluid out of the tank instead of running it back into the tank. I think the pump switch is switched toward the inside of the house for pumping fluid, in the middle position probably for off, and toward the outside wall for back pumping.

Anyway it works now...after I rewrote the manual.

BTW, the switch on mine came in the wrong position from new.

Well that will be handy information....  I hadn't actually powered mine up yet, but I will check for what you describe.

Sorry to hear about the mouth full of smoke fluid - ick..... !!!  Thanks for warning the rest of us!

-Dave

Surprised the switch is being shipped in the wrong position, it should be to the right with the front doors facing you.

Switch positions are as follows,  reverse-off-forward from left to right. I'm surprised this is not mentioned in the manual.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Lionel2341 posted:

Surprised the switch is being shipped in the wrong position, it should be to the right with the front doors facing you.

Switch positions are as follows,  reverse-off-forward from left to right. I'm surprised this is not mentioned in the manual.

Ernie

Thanks, I like it, that's a better description of the switch than mine. I looked fairly carefully in the manual for the switch but it's not in there that I found. I penciled it in mine. I also labeled the switch in the unit. That would have been satisfory if not in the manual. I have found Lionel manuals to be somewhat lacking in technical details...kind of like "No user serviceable items inside". The switch is kind of inside.

There are drawings of wires instead of schematics in many accessory manuals. I personally think that that plays to dumbing down the customer base. I also think that the interest in how it works and how to personalize a product increases the customer base and interest.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

According to Mike Reagan, the three position slide switch inside the Smoke Fluid Loader will reverse the pump if in the wrong position. The center position turns the pump off. The correct position on the one I have is to the right when you look in with the front facing you. If you can't get any fluid to come out, you might try moving the position of that switch to the opposite side.   
Best,
Bill Schmeelk

Thanks "NM". No biggie on the pics. (need help? ask, or even e-mail me, but I think maybe that's been offered before; correct?)

  It is likely a "slip collar". Good fittings you simply push a tube into. Press a collar for release. Still speculation on my part, but the tubing type was that cats main curiosity anyhow.

Got my fingers crossed for all parties here .

The smoke fluid pump is an accessory I dreamed about 50 years ago .

The follow up concern shown, reflects a pertain pride that's very refreshing.

Seeing them made was as cool as knowing Lionel made a Jawn Henry

  I bet they are still opening all the letters sent in the 60's and 70's, by Gramps with Jawn requests at the core.

 Relax Ernie, I wont be over filling your inbox. You guys already did the vanishing coal loads too ...Hey, is this house bugged or sumptin'  

  .....

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





nmtrains posted:

Adriatic, soft tubing,not a barb fitting-never seen a connector as was presented,appears to be molded into pump housing! And sorry don't know the how-to for pics.

I also ran into the same problem......it appears the clear tube attached at the pump intake has a molded thinner end which is inserted into the pump.  On mine, that molded end appeared to break off.....my fix which was to insert a short, narrow piece of shrink tubing into the original clear tube and then insert the other end of the shrink tube into the pump.....this seems to work for me at the moment, until I can call Lionel for a new tube.

-Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

BF166,Sorry for your dilemma! If I'm reading you right reducing tube size would create a "bottle neck/pressure problem"-I would think-perhaps bursting tube at this point(when in prime mode} We'll see what Lionel has to say! Hope this isn't an "Archilles heel" in this product though.

Bill Schmeelk posted:

According to Mike Reagan, the three position slide switch inside the Smoke Fluid Loader will reverse the pump if in the wrong position. The center position turns the pump off. The correct position on the one I have is to the right when you look in with the front facing you. If you can't get any fluid to come out, you might try moving the position of that switch to the opposite side.   
Best,
Bill Schmeelk

Mornin, Switch was in right hand position as described by Bernie_(LIONEL2341) facing doors at front of accessory.

nmtrains posted:

BF166,Sorry for your dilemma! If I'm reading you right reducing tube size would create a "bottle neck/pressure problem"-I would think-perhaps bursting tube at this point(when in prime mode} We'll see what Lionel has to say! Hope this isn't an "Archilles heel" in this product though.

Good point,......but Lionels molded insert also narrows the original tube so it fits into the pump.....what I did simulates it.....nevertheless.....I will see if Lionel will send me out a new tube.

-Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

nmtrains posted:
Bill Schmeelk posted:

According to Mike Reagan, the three position slide switch inside the Smoke Fluid Loader will reverse the pump if in the wrong position. The center position turns the pump off. The correct position on the one I have is to the right when you look in with the front facing you. If you can't get any fluid to come out, you might try moving the position of that switch to the opposite side.   
Best,
Bill Schmeelk

Mornin, Switch was in right hand position as described by Bernie_(LIONEL2341) facing doors at front of accessory.

ERNIE (lionel2341)

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Addendum:  Lionel contacted me today and offered me a replacement smoke fluid loading building.  While this is a nice and much appreciated gesture, I rather have them just ship me a tube......guess they do not have this in their replacement parts bin.

-Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

Well I've shown much restraint as of late in posting about this Loader we waited, what 3-4 years to get...At the end of the day this thing still seems as if it was rushed to market..The instructions are basically useless and the hole thing is just fragile. I have a pump with both hoses pulled out of it and no hope of getting them back in with out modifications....Why are the hoses out you ask? Because in my ignorance I put Maga steam smoke fluid in mine and locked the thing up before I ever seen a drop dispensed. So I was removing the pump to try and flush it out .. I completely take charge of this being my fault because one of the few things in the instructions that is clear is the requirement to use ONLY lionel fluid.. Why on earth would you design your product like that?  Gallons of other fluids are sold daily but you design to use one specific type? I guess your service department will be in the black next month..lol...Hopefully I can buy a new pump with the hoses attached otherwise I'll be sending the hole dam thing in....

Can I buy a more robust pump that will move slightly thinker fluid?

Seriously can someone answer why you designed this to use only your fluid ???? Is this a marketing ploy to sell your fluid?

Keith podolan

Why do you think the slightly thicker fluid kept any fluid from flowing. Seems unlikely, but you should know. Are you sure that the forward/reverse switch was in forward when you tried the fluid? Mine came with the switch on reverse and there was no fluid although I could hear the pump running. Then I experimented with the switch and realized it controlled the direction of the pump.

Please excuse me if the fluid was thicker and really is the cause. Just seems a bit touchy if it's true.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

O there is absolutely no doubt at all the thicker fluid locks it up.. I've repeated the problem multiple times on the bench...I'll video it actually...Soon as the maga fluid gets up the tube to the pump it shuts down ..The lionel fluid runs no problem.. now if I can just get these stupid hoses back in the pump correctly...............

I no all about the switch...Found that out with no help from the instructions..

Keith podolan

wiz posted:

O there is absolutely no doubt at all the thicker fluid locks it up.. I've repeated the problem multiple times on the bench...I'll video it actually...Soon as the maga fluid gets up the tube to the pump it shuts down ..The lionel fluid runs no problem.. now if I can just get these stupid hoses back in the pump correctly...............

I no all about the switch...Found that out with no help from the instructions..

Ok thanks. More information. Lionel did say to use Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid, but as we all know that can be mistaken for marketing. Not that it would actually foul the fluid loader.

That's one of my disappointments with the whole Lionel manual program. It's do this or do that without any explanation of why or what about it. No wiring diagrams, just pictures of wires and where they mysteriously go. The smoke fluid loader manual is no exception. Except in this case the lack of information has led to several having issues. In my case, not mentioning the switch could have resulted in unnecessary disassembly, and in your case, caused the fouling of the pump. A simple comment about the pump's sensitivity to fluid viscosity would have been much more helpful than just "Use Our Fluid".

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Wiz, I Will take you at your word that the thicker mega steam fluid clogged up your pump....maybe I got lucky, but I have been running mega steam fluid through mine since I have had it with no problem...even after my tube had an issue and I inserted my modified shrink tube nipple (see my above post) the unit works well.  I tried it again tonight and put it in program mode to expel the mega steam fluid in the tank and that worked successfully.....you say you are having problems connecting the hoses back to the pump....are you sure the nipple at the end of the tube is still intact....just a thought.....  Can you elaborate why you cannot insert the tubes back into the pump?  If the nipple is intact it should easily fit into the pump.....at this point I feel this is the    "Achilles heel"(as nmtrains stated") of this product.   At this point I am inclined not to send my loader back to Lionel and leave it alone with my mod since it is working well.

-Pete

 

Final thought, why is Lionel insisting on sending the whole unit back for a faulty tube....why not just mail out another tube instead of scrapping the whole product.....just cannot wrap my head around that one....

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

We were shocked at what little difference the thickness seemed to be between the different fluids causing the pump to lock our selves.. I wounder if different sense have different thicknesses and this is why yours will run and mine won't. At any rate you are correct this should be a major point in the instruction booklet... The tube thing is just stupid.. There are no male nipples mine was a push the hose into the end of the pump deal (female)..and there is no way they will go back in with out damaging them by using a tool. These hoses were torn as I removed the pump from the tight cavite it sits in.. Please bear in mind im not a goof ball and care was being used during the removal. The are way to fragile IMO..  All I no is I haven't put one drop of fluid into a locomotive yet and this stupid thing is still sitting on my bench.. Hey atleast I no what the black switch does now....It helps un lock the motor when you but the wrong fluid in..Smart thinking Lionel thanks....

Keith podolan

Keith, you may have a point here...I am using megasteam cinnamon roll fluid.....maybe the viscosity is thinner than what you are using.  As far as the tube is concerned, mine appeared as if the tube was shaved down at its end so it cold be squeezed into the pump...I feel it is because it was squeezed down or shaved it weakened the tube so it eventually broke off at the pump after continued use.....I tried at first to reinsert the tube into my pump, but it was too big for the pump intake.

BTW, have you tried to remove the wall across from the pump inputs....makes it easy to work on the pump.....mine was held by minimal glue and popped off easily...just be careful of the attached wire to the wall and the three tits on the bottom of the wall that hold the wall to the base.

 

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

I know, these toys frustrate the hell out  of me too at times....just walk away from it for a day and sometimes the fix hits you out of nowhere......try the shrink tube approach as I posted...cut a short piece tha fits both into the tube and the pump snugly.....keep the tube short so you can keep the tube fitted within the building without kinking...it worked for me so far.

Good Luck,

-Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

wiz posted:

Well I've shown much restraint as of late in posting about this Loader we waited, what 3-4 years to get...At the end of the day this thing still seems as if it was rushed to market..The instructions are basically useless and the hole thing is just fragile. I have a pump with both hoses pulled out of it and no hope of getting them back in with out modifications....Why are the hoses out you ask? Because in my ignorance I put Maga steam smoke fluid in mine and locked the thing up before I ever seen a drop dispensed. So I was removing the pump to try and flush it out .. I completely take charge of this being my fault because one of the few things in the instructions that is clear is the requirement to use ONLY lionel fluid.. Why on earth would you design your product like that?  Gallons of other fluids are sold daily but you design to use one specific type? I guess your service department will be in the black next month..lol...Hopefully I can buy a new pump with the hoses attached otherwise I'll be sending the hole dam thing in....

Can I buy a more robust pump that will move slightly thinker fluid?

Seriously can someone answer why you designed this to use only your fluid ???? Is this a marketing ploy to sell your fluid?

I've sent Lionel service a fix for the hose breakage. Secondly, the original prototype I gave to Lionel used ANY smoke fluid,(Same Pump) my original design did not attach the hoses to the pump this way.  Also the pump will last a long time, that's why it was used for long term reliability. The fix is easy, I'm sure Lionel will take care of it. My original test unit still runs fine after 5 years of use with this pump. The pump is not the problem. It's the way the hoses are attached to it, and like I said I've provided Lionel with a simple fix.

PS During any large scale product release a fault may show up that is an easy fix for the customer.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

I'm dying to see this assembly.

  Fluid dynamics causing lock up could be delivering some interesting pressures and at high impeller speed, shocks too. Enough to blow the tube out of their seats or crack plastic? Maybe. High speed could means lots of little shocks.  You can drive a nail with a finger if you tap on it hard enough, a million times.

Tight or sealed fit on the impeller blades to housing? A gear pump? diaphram..no it reverses electrically,...

Is the nozzles jetting the limiter on drops or the pump? A check valve?....a clog

 If there are debris in the final delivery plumbing, viscosity could still be a factor in the pressure of debris blocking the flow, maybe to the point of sealing, and lower visc. could have lower pressure still allowing flow around any gap.

I can think of a number of fluid property differences that could vary a debris clogging symptoms severely.

Debris may rise or fall in suspension, or just plain move differently based on chemicals, temp and thickness.

Just another straw to grasp at Wiz. Your's sounds different, or most affected, or best diagnosed, or a combo

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





I would share the fix, but I would like Lionel to do it since the units are under warranty. I'll try and contact Service and see if they say it's OK for me to post it.

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

cjack posted:

Would you share that simple fix with us? Is it a retro fix...can it be implemented in the field? 

I will if Lionel says it's OK to post on the forum, I don't want to step on their toes. They may want to address it a different way. I should know sometime today. And yes it's a field upgrade that anyone can do.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

This thing is a mess. Smoke fluid seeping out under the tank platform and the house. I'm not sure I want Lionel to "fix" this one. How could I hope that it is clean of fluid everywhere? What's a solvent that won't hurt the plastic?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Megasteam has a cleanup spray...wonder if it's safe on the plastic, but then how would I get the fluid out from under the tank base? Disconnect the inlet hose and unscrew the tank base while the tank has 2 oz of fluid in it upside down?

I feel like putting the thing in a plastic bag and being done with it.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Attachments

Photos (4)
cjack posted:
Lionel2341 posted:

OK, good news I'll post the fix in a few. Stay tuned.

Ernie

What's your take on cleaning up all this fluid?

I would stand it up vertical with the tank pointing down on a old towel or paper towel to soak up any smoke fluid, then use some 409 or something like that to clean up.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Geez, Glad I didn't buy this accesory at York. The whole housing setup is a disaster waiting to happen. Even, the repair method looks like it will be temporary. The pump should have had threaded inlet outlet ports...the connections brass pressure fittings......The price is also another factor....but, that is a story for another day.

I'm feeling better. The hose fix looks good and should be reasonably dry of seepage. The fluid all over my house floor and under the tank floor seems to be seeping out less now. I have the thing tipped up at a 45 degree angle. Thinking of putting it out in the sun to thin out the propylene glycol or what ever it is, the Lionel fluid.

1/8 inch ID, eh? Lessee...what's that in mm?

3.175mm.

5/32 inch is just about 4 mm.

So we'll see what the hobby store has...

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

shawn posted:

Geez, Glad I didn't buy this accesory at York. The whole housing setup is a disaster waiting to happen. Even, the repair method looks like it will be temporary. The pump should have had threaded inlet outlet ports...the connections brass pressure fittings......The price is also another factor....but, that is a story for another day.

Not exactly, my Original used straight 1/8" ID hose from pump to boom. Not sure why it was done this way.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Don't get me wrong I love Lionel and have been collecting for over 40 years but I was frustrated on this one taking 3 or so years to get out to the public.  This has happened with other accessories.  I wound up building one 4 months ago using the same building as the one TAS used.  It works great!  I got a call about a month ago from a hobby shop in Georgia where I must have pre-ordered the Smoke Fluid Loader when it was up for pre-order.  My cost was much cheaper then the new selling price so I bought it.  I guess I am glad I haven't had it out of the box yet.  I'll wait for Lionel to offer the hose.  Also glad I visit this site often.

Craig Willard

Lionel2341 posted:

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Sorry, but I have to ask a stupid question now.

Based on the pics, it looks like the curvature of each hose coming off the pump is still greatly hanging over the area where the wall will be when re-assembled.

If they are pushed in towards the inside of the house to allow the wall to be replaced, could it not cause the flow issues described again?  (sorry if I read the other posts too fast, but it sounded like that was a big part of the issue.  The fix looks like it can stop leakage, but will the restricted flow maybe still be an issue?)

-Dave

BFI66 posted:

Ernie is this the  proper tubing?

 

No Don't use Vinyl, You want to use "Glo Fuel Hose" Amazon has it.

 

Ernie

Dave45681 posted:
Lionel2341 posted:

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Sorry, but I have to ask a stupid question now.

Based on the pics, it looks like the curvature of each hose coming off the pump is still greatly hanging over the area where the wall will be when re-assembled.

If they are pushed in towards the inside of the house to allow the wall to be replaced, could it not cause the flow issues described again?  (sorry if I read the other posts too fast, but it sounded like that was a big part of the issue.  The fix looks like it can stop leakage, but will the restricted flow maybe still be an issue?)

-Dave

No, it works fine, because you're not compressing the original hose as you would in the way it's installed by the factory.

Ernie 

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

E-UNIT-79 posted:

Why would they use a joined piece and not 1 solid line from fitting to fitting??? Made in China. Lol...

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Lionel2341 posted:
BFI66 posted:

Ernie is this the  proper tubing?

 

No Don't use Vinyl, You want to use "Glo Fuel Hose" Amazon has it.

 

Ernie

Dave45681 posted:
Lionel2341 posted:

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Sorry, but I have to ask a stupid question now.

Based on the pics, it looks like the curvature of each hose coming off the pump is still greatly hanging over the area where the wall will be when re-assembled.

If they are pushed in towards the inside of the house to allow the wall to be replaced, could it not cause the flow issues described again?  (sorry if I read the other posts too fast, but it sounded like that was a big part of the issue.  The fix looks like it can stop leakage, but will the restricted flow maybe still be an issue?)

-Dave

No, it works fine, because you're not compressing the original hose as you would in the way it's installed by the factory.

Ernie 

It looks ok, I just fixed it. You want to keep the splice short, but adequate on the hose to hose area. I found it best to clean the smoke fluid well off the hoses so they won't pop out when fitting the wall back. The wall does bend the hoses a bit, but not enough to kink or pop them out.

Still waiting on fluid seep...

Anybody know if the b-Gone Cleaner from Mega-Steam is safe on the plastic base paint?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Ernie sorry to be a pain in the butt. Could not find Glo fuel hose or Glo fuel tubing in a search on Amazon.  Could you post a link so we buy the right tubing

Much appreciated

-Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

BFI66 posted:

Ernie sorry to be a pain in the butt. Could not find Glo fuel hose or Glo fuel tubing in a search on Amazon.  Could you post a link so we buy the right tubing

Much appreciated

-Pete

No hobby store near by? BTW the hobby store here has small, medium, and large fuel tubing. Then they what looked like it might be bigger for fueling with a probe. That worked. Silicone hose.

Try searching for silicone fuel line or hose.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

cjack posted:
BFI66 posted:

Ernie sorry to be a pain in the butt. Could not find Glo fuel hose or Glo fuel tubing in a search on Amazon.  Could you post a link so we buy the right tubing

Much appreciated

-Pete

No hobby store near by? BTW the hobby store here has small, medium, and large fuel tubing. Then they what looked like it might be bigger for fueling with a probe. That worked. Silicone hose.

Try searching for silicone fuel line or hose.

Amazon is just easier for me. Nearest hobby shop is quite a trip from where I live. 

Amazon just got a bit confusing. They had alot of different types of tubing. I am not into RC so I was not aware of all these types and noone really stated what type of tubing at the outset of this thread except to state 1/8 ID

I'll figure it out unless someone would like to help me out with a link. Thanks- Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

Maybe it is in one of those threads or common sense to most of you...but, why is that switch even included with the accessory if it seems it must be slid in one certain direction for the thing to work properly?  I can understand an "off" position...but, what for what is the "reverse" position used?

I probably missed that somewhere...I am prepared to be ridiculed and chastised.

   I'm with Mr. Schmeelk. Just visually though, as I don't have one here, but appears to have some thought applied to it -vs--being a "get-er-done" job.

jim pastorius posted:

Too bad Frank Petit wasn't around to design this thing !!

 .....Frank was the name of the man my Grandfather talked to from Lionel all the time. Same guy?? I think he was the one looked for, and found, my "X" set if you caught the post. Designer, huh...I often wish we had kept that outdated Rolodex another fifteen years past its prime... Trains were still boxed then, wasn't thinking about the train folks, & most listed had passed on, or we didn't know them.


    I never came across a name for the fitting of tube that way. We would just say "shrink tube clamp" butted, seated, or on a nipple/ barb. They had been creeping into coin-op and HVAC since the 80's as a light duty option. With good  tube, trimming, and fitment, it shouldn't be a regularly returning issue. When first encountered, it can be frustrating, like many new things, you get used to it. Auto companies use the method too.

  On tubing, "FUEL" should be stated for the best chance at getting a tube that wont melt or become brittle. A Menards/H.Depot/Lowes should have something for weed wackers that fits. But as mentioned earlier on, the foreign suppliers sometimes worry more about getting a tube into a blister pack , than getting the right tube into a blister pack. (we can only blame ourselves America).

  Silicone should be ok , but you may find it to be squirmy to work with. The frosted tube used; it looks like silicone to me. I did run across batches of Sil.tube that "split" suddenly under stress of harder curves. Normally thicker walled than other types for the ID used, its not as prone to kinking* (if it does, its usually stops flow 100%) My only issue was a situational one with an oversized nipple; silicone splits sooner when the ID is stretched open too far. *medical/dental equipment used it a lot.

  For the 90º elbow an RC oriented hobby store should carry either brass and/or plastic "mini"-elbows rated for fuel use.  The "Parker Store" are another possible source if near you. An industrial fitting specialty company with a very wide variety of connectors large and small. Sometimes pricey, but normally competitive for the quality handed to you IMO. [shop with time to look around at the variety, and newest plumbing ideas. Always a new surprise]

Other robotic and pneumatic supply houses may prove fruitful too.


   I'm not sure of the present stance on this by Lionel today, but the old PW Lionel & MPC-L stated in print, to use Naptha (Zippo style lighter fluid for a little can, vs quart or gallon labeled Naptha) for cleaning their plastics.

I used it on all my toys as a kid. I don't remember totally ruining anything but a very dirty, light blue gondola. It has some weaker lettering today (be careful, and test,"Paint Warning", it will remove some paints/inks  [given time to, maybe even loosen a modern glue?]. That said, to give you a general idea of how weak/strong it is,  in my experience, paint doesn't suddenly start running down the sides, but after a few seconds, can begin to be rubbed off. Left alone to dry again, the paints resets. (After it dried well, a fast wipe with Naptha removed the light paint smears, without time for penetrating and disturbing the main lettering again).

   My Grandfathers bench had a sealed can for Naptha rags, and it's odor was faintly in the air from near daily use, either filling the Zippo he carried, or cleaning a Lionel train car. Add that to Lucky Strike, coffee, ozone and smoke pellet scent, and your there...I mean here....here, but then. ?...you know

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Lionel2341 posted:

I would stand it up vertical with the tank pointing down on a old towel or paper towel to soak up any smoke fluid, then use some 409 or something like that to clean up.

Ernie

 I'm not sure if it was 409 or fantastic, but one of the two gave me about 40ft of "frosted plexiglass" years ago. I test all first today.

 I'd say no to Simple Green too as it apparently melts F.track roadbed after a bit..

That's been posted plenty, but there are new folk every day who don't know.

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





SD60M posted:

Maybe it is in one of those threads or common sense to most of you...but, why is that switch even included with the accessory if it seems it must be slid in one certain direction for the thing to work properly?  I can understand an "off" position...but, what for what is the "reverse" position used?

I probably missed that somewhere...I am prepared to be ridiculed and chastised.

It's probably part of the pump which was already a product on it's own.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Adriatic posted:
Lionel2341 posted:

I would stand it up vertical with the tank pointing down on a old towel or paper towel to soak up any smoke fluid, then use some 409 or something like that to clean up.

Ernie

 I'm not sure if it was 409 or fantastic, but one of the two gave me about 40ft of "frosted plexiglass" years ago. I test all first today.

 I'd say no to Simple Green too as it apparently melts F.track roadbed after a bit..

That's been posted plenty, but there are new folk every day who don't know.

I decided not to use anything except just paper towel. I also have a product called Plexus which is a plastic cleaner and shine up, which doesn't seem to hurt paint or plastic. I carefully shined it up a little with a little of that on a towel.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

cjack posted:
SD60M posted:

Maybe it is in one of those threads or common sense to most of you...but, why is that switch even included with the accessory if it seems it must be slid in one certain direction for the thing to work properly?  I can understand an "off" position...but, what for what is the "reverse" position used?

I probably missed that somewhere...I am prepared to be ridiculed and chastised.

It's probably part of the pump which was already a product on it's own.

Correct. Off the shelf so to speak

 

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

jim pastorius posted:

I laughed when I watched  the video of refueling a steam engine through the stack.  Oil or coal-an interesting thought. Maybe simulate filling the sand dome ??

 I know what you mean I laughed when they were sitting on 3 rail track while dropping smoke fluid in the stack with a large hand and a eyedropper in the past. 

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"You should have bought a train."

 

For all you pundit's my original design was not done this way. Secondly the switch helps to unload the pump and fluid back into the tank when the loader is not used for some time.

Lionel was free to make changes to my design as they wished to facilitate production. They produced my design @ 99% I originally used 5/32 hose from pump to boom and a reduction barb from tank to pump. However my "Quick Fix" works well.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

cjack posted:

Someone said "missing screws". What missing screws? I have all mine .

Missing holes for mounting. Not screws.

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Bill Schmeelk posted:

My guess is that Lionel made use of an existing pump.

Correct, it's the same one I used in my Prototype.

 

 

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

jim pastorius posted:

You wouldn't need much of a pump for 10-20 drops of smoke fluid.

Yes, but you need one that will last the life of the accessories.

 

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

For me, an important part of the design of this accessory is that it dispenses the fluid in drops. When I first heard of the accessory I could just picture locos being christened with a flood of fluid. The roughly 2 drops per second makes it easy to put the desired number of  drops into the loco. I also like the fine control you have of the loader arm. It takes about 9 revolutions of the CAB knob to move the full 90 degrees - making it easy to properly line up the arm with the stack.

Lionel2341 posted:
cjack posted:

Someone said "missing screws". What missing screws? I have all mine .

Missing holes for mounting. Not screws.

Oh. I noticed it's easy to misalign it by having it slide if you touched it to go to program or whatever. Maybe drill two holes on centered on the two ends. Carefully not to drill thru a wire by the program switch or power

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Lionel2341 posted:

This is how I did one of my Prototypes.

I used a reduction Barb for hose transition.

I tried that with the 1/8 inch ID a little long and then the stock silicone hose, but bending the 1/8 inch ID hose was too extreme with the real wall in place. So I did the less than 1/2 inch couplers instead and let the stock silicone hose do the bend. What we really need to feel comfortable is a couple right angle 1/8 inch ID silicone elbows. BUT this is dry so far and working. When my original whittled down hose broke, it syphened out an ounce of Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid onto the Loader floor, etc. That's a half a bottle! And that's a mess I don't want to repeat...

Lionel said if I'm not happy with my cleanup, they would send me a new one. I'm happy and like to be conservative of other's resources, so I would probably clean it up again, but maybe completely disassemble it next time and do something super secure as to the hoses.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

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