Just received mine today. Finished oiling up all the lubrication points and added the smoke. Let smoke juice settle in for a half an hour. Fired it up, ran it a little. It is very nice, beautiful engine great sounds great Whistle. Not a big fan of gray engines, but this is really nice color. A set of matching passenger cars, 21 inch would finish it nicely.
I noticed:
a stationary bell underneath the pilot (nice)
opening doors on front of tender
opening smokebox doors in cab
are there any other features that were not advertised or mentioned in the instructions?
D&H 65 posted:Just so all the cards are on the table, I returned my Niagara this past Monday to Lionel to have the stack-smoke unit looked at. It worked flawlessly for the first 30 minutes and then it had what I call a "step-change" in operation. before my issue, I had all three levels of smoke production; after that initial 30 minutes, mine would only produce an amount of smoke I liken to "LOW' being selected on my Cab-2.
My other issue for return was the "tender pressure relief" smoke system would not trigger the smoke function reliably; the "sound" portion always works, but smoke production was random at best. WHEN it worked, it would smoke like all the videos on here show; mine either smoked or didn't smoke even though the sound ALWAYS worked, so I have to say the "Command" was received by the tender smoke control board. I'm waiting to see what Lionel finds out.
And yes, I id use JT's Mega-Steam fluid initially as that's what I had. "Katie" @Lionel Service was the individual who passed on Lionel's policy of not warranting smoke units with JT's in them; they did make an exception this one time.
D&H, Please keep us posted on the tender smoke issue. I ran mine for about 4 hours yesterday and discovered the same issue. I also noticed if you trigger the smoke just as you start the locomotive it works pretty much every time. Once you let go and retrigger, no smoke just sound.
MartyE posted:Super O Bob posted:NortonAfter reading that Megastream is not recommended...
Pete
Omg. My 6013 arrives today. Can you please elaborate? I need no smell smoke fluid... so i use NADA by megasteam.
Why cant i use megasteam?
Lionel recommends, not surprisingly, to use their premium smoke fluid. They say it is non conductive and their smoke unit optimized for their fluid if you want to believe that.
They also in many case will not repair units under warranty if you use other smoke fluids. I use Lionel until the warranty passes. Then I use whatever but have typically remained with the Lionel fluid. They do make an unscented.
You can read Mike Reagan's thoughts on this here.
I had used Jt’s until the first run of S3’s came out. I could never get it to smoke very well through the cylinder cocks. Called and talked to mike regan he told we to switch over to the lionel premium and I noticed a huge difference. I’ve never looked back since and I’ve also had this same scenario communicated from several other members. Jt’s smoke seems great out the stack. I can’t say it’s any better than the lionel but lionel for sure seems to play better with the smoke features. In my experience.
I think I over filled my smoke fluid. With switches on, the engine shorts as soon as I start it ion the CAB 2 control. Turn switches off, it starts and runs fine. When the engine comes around, I turn the smoke switches on without stopping the train. Smoke works fine at that point. Only have the problem if I turn the engine off/on with the remote. I am giving it a couple of days to see if it clears up. Ever happen to you? If it does not solve itself, I will send it in.
A big box arrived here today
. Not had time to check it and also the youngest is on half term break from school. So had to sneak it through the house and hide it for
.
Big thanks to Chris and Charlie at Nassau Hobby.
Nick
Nick12DMC posted:A big box arrived here today
Big thanks to Chris and Charlie at Nassau Hobby.
Nick
Nick, congrats!! You are going to love it; are you going to inspect it before Christmas??
Mine runs great! Thanks Lionel!
I assume the water pan feature is activated separately from the normal smoke command? Is that correct?
NYC Fan posted:I assume the water pan feature is activated separately from the normal smoke command? Is that correct?
Yes. It's activated with the #3 key when moving.
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:I think I over filled my smoke fluid. With switches on, the engine shorts as soon as I start it ion the CAB 2 control. Turn switches off, it starts and runs fine. When the engine comes around, I turn the smoke switches on without stopping the train. Smoke works fine at that point. Only have the problem if I turn the engine off/on with the remote. I am giving it a couple of days to see if it clears up. Ever happen to you? If it does not solve itself, I will send it in.
Bryant, what brand smoke fluid did you use? How many drops did you use?
There are some unconventional methods for handling errant smoke units on this forum if you search; a few that I remember: gently blow down the fill holes; turn the loco upside down overnight in the hopes of draining the overfill (but, if there is an intervening funnel with chambers as I suspect on the Niagara, may be ineffective). Maybe some other members can chime in.
RickM46 posted:Nick12DMC posted:A big box arrived here today
Big thanks to Chris and Charlie at Nassau Hobby.
Nick
Nick, congrats!! You are going to love it; are you going to inspect it before Christmas??
Oh yes, I will inspect/test before wrapping it up. Mason picked it from the catalogue back in the spring. That’s what he asked Santa for.
Worked a fair bit of overtime to make it happen.
Nick
RickM46 posted:Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:I think I over filled my smoke fluid. With switches on, the engine shorts as soon as I start it ion the CAB 2 control. Turn switches off, it starts and runs fine. When the engine comes around, I turn the smoke switches on without stopping the train. Smoke works fine at that point. Only have the problem if I turn the engine off/on with the remote. I am giving it a couple of days to see if it clears up. Ever happen to you? If it does not solve itself, I will send it in.
Bryant, what brand smoke fluid did you use? How many drops did you use?
There are some unconventional methods for handling errant smoke units on this forum if you search; a few that I remember: gently blow down the fill holes; turn the loco upside down overnight in the hopes of draining the overfill (but, if there is an intervening funnel with chambers as I suspect on the Niagara, may be ineffective). Maybe some other members can chime in.
Lionel Premium of coarse. I don't think it is a case of overfilling. I put no more than 14 drops in and ran perfectly. Even had smoke from the water scoops. Fast forward about 30 minutes. I am running a couple locomotives and I hear an electronic pop on the other side of the layout. Red light on transformer goes on. If I turn smoke switches off and reset transformer, no problem. If I flip the switches on the loco as it is running, smoke units come alive. Shut completely off and turn on, same issue (red light). I am going to send it back for repair and a good thorough check up. The scoops aren't consistent either. I will have them check it out.
That’s a pity about the short. I hope it’s only a board replacement (I don’t think that they can be reprogrammed once scrambled and if it’s got physical damage they’ll just put a new one in).
I found out a while back that smoke fluid is NOT conductive and so it won’t short a board itself but it can certainly gum up fan motors and I suppose might affect the operating temp of a board.
The smoke fluid has no contact with your fan motor. I am a Mega Steam user and see no reason to change.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:The smoke fluid has no contact with your fan motor. I am a Mega Steam user and see no reason to change.
Mike's gonna' get you for that Marty.
Hancock52 posted:That’s a pity about the short. I hope it’s only a board replacement (I don’t think that they can be reprogrammed once scrambled and if it’s got physical damage they’ll just put a new one in).
I found out a while back that smoke fluid is NOT conductive and so it won’t short a board itself but it can certainly gum up fan motors and I suppose might affect the operating temp of a board.
I think I finally got caught in the numbers. It is the 1st of about 20 that I have purchased that requires me to send in. I consider myself lucky.
The bummer is that this is hands down my favorite engine. The gray has the looks and it runs like a finely tuned watch. Whistle and horn really are unique.
You know, I'm glad you said that about the fluid. I have a Visionline Big Boy and the Allegheny Legacy. They don't say "They will void warranty". They say that they recommend Lionel Premium fluid. I caught the Mega-Steam Kool-Aid at York. I plan to use it in some other engines to test results. If fine, I will try it out.
How does the new feature of engine sensing amount of load pulled and engine sounds adjust accordingly work?
Paul Kallus posted:How does the new feature of engine sensing amount of load pulled and engine sounds adjust accordingly work?
Paul - if you're asking how well it works, on my unit, per my post on this a couple weeks back, it works great. I backed it up a little too far on my 7' test track and the back-most wheels on my tender went off the test track, putting the tender on a slight angle so that the back was lower. Didn't notice this and tried to move the train forward and the need to pull hard made it immediately make some awesomely deep chuffing sounds and maybe even smoked more deeply?
Paul Kallus posted:How does the new feature of engine sensing amount of load pulled and engine sounds adjust accordingly work?
In terms of how it's meant to work, I can't improve on the VL Niagara manual and especially the reference to the "crunch" feature described on the left below:
To be honest, I wasn't persuaded to get this engine by anything to do with the "force coupler" function and I see from the text that when on (by default) it overrides any manual EFX settings, which I think is a little inconvenient. What tipped me over the edge was seeing videos of the loco smoke features; the "booster rockets" on the tender are a bonus.
Still, I can say that the engine responds as it should to increases in load (as from going up a slight grade) but I have not heard a "crunch" yet.
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From reading this paragraph, I can see why you wouldn't hear the "crunch" unless you did an operation where you got a sudden spike in force to the coupler.
It takes a good amount of force from speed or a heavy load to create such a loud "bang"!
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Got my 6005 yesterday. Ran it for about 15 minutes. Was really loud and sounded like noisy gear. Took of the gear housing and it wasn't bone dry, but pretty close. I filled it full of Red n' Tacky grease from Home Depot. It quieted it right down. Has any one else checked to see if theirs had dry gears?
Tom 4 posted:Got my 6005 yesterday. Ran it for about 15 minutes. Was really loud and sounded like noisy gear. Took of the gear housing and it wasn't bone dry, but pretty close. I filled it full of Red n' Tacky grease from Home Depot. It quieted it right down. Has any one else checked to see if theirs had dry gears?
The Big Boys were the same. Makes you wonder what a little more grease would hurt and how much grief in the long run it would save.
I lubed the Niagara drive gear with Red and Tacky because it was stone dry (however the drive gear was completely silent); took a look at this video https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ew-vl-niagara?page=1 and the picture; so if we are not supposed to lube it, I would like to know if RnT should be removed.
RickM46 posted:I lubed the Niagara drive gear with Red and Tacky because it was stone dry (however the drive gear was completely silent); took a look at this video https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ew-vl-niagara?page=1 and the picture; so if we are not supposed to lube it, I would like to know if RnT should be removed.
You got an answer from AlexM over on the “Look Inside” thread and on the question of whether to lube or not what he says (do lube) is good enough for me. The only real issue is, with what and how much?
In the video on that thread and the picture above, the gear is shown fairly liberally lubed with what looks like white lithium (synthetic) grease. Not sure if this is what Lionel supplies or recommends; I doubt it because the gear grease I have seen from them is decribed as containing petroleum distillates and looks more like Vasoline than anything else.
Anyway, with my VL BB, the corresponding gears were dry when I checked them and I used MTH grease on them because that’s what I had on hand. I made sure that the gear teeth and axle were coated but did not overdo the amount of gresae applied. MTH grease looks exactly like RnT to me and it has not caused any operational issues with the BB. In your position I would not try removing the RnT to substitute something else.
I believe Alex used Labelle teflon grease. Its plastic safe. Frankly I doubt either grease will hurt anything.
I have to smile. On the motorcycle forums I am on there are the never ending oil threads. Here its the grease thread. Manufacturers have been using steel, brass, bronze, nylon, delrin gears for decades. Worse case the grease dries up and you have to clean it out and replace it.
Pete
Saw Alex M's response on lubing the Niagara gear and thanked him for the quick response. As mentioned above, his response is good enough for me and I will keep the RnT on my drive gear. Have used it on the drive gears of all the rest of my Legacy engines. Maybe the Niagara doesn't have grease ports since they were not on the original Niagaras.
Norton posted:I believe Alex used Labelle teflon grease. Its plastic safe. Frankly I doubt either grease will hurt anything.
I have to smile. On the motorcycle forums I am on there are the never ending oil threads. Here its the grease thread. Manufacturers have been using steel, brass, bronze, nylon, delrin gears for decades. Worse case the grease dries up and you have to clean it out and replace it.
Pete
Thanks for that info on the Labelle product, much appreciated (as always).
Your last comment reminds me that there was/is an issue over the lubricant used by Lionel in the die-cast ES44AC diesels (including the two VL models). After a certain period of an engine being shelved/stored it hardened to the point that the motor could not turn the wheels. After someone on this Forum put me on to this problem I took the trucks off my CP Evo engine, excavated the remaining fragments of the stuff and replaced it with MTH grease. No issue since even though the engine doesn't get much run time.
I have one quirky thing that is going on with my Niagara and don't know if any one else has had this issue. I run all my Lionel engines with Legacy. About a 3rd of the time when I put power to the track, the Niagara starts up like it is conventional and acting like it is not receiving the Legacy signal. This seems to be totally random, and it happens on all 4 of my tracks.
Any one else having this issue?
Hancock52 posted:Norton posted:I believe Alex used Labelle teflon grease. Its plastic safe. Frankly I doubt either grease will hurt anything.
I have to smile. On the motorcycle forums I am on there are the never ending oil threads. Here its the grease thread. Manufacturers have been using steel, brass, bronze, nylon, delrin gears for decades. Worse case the grease dries up and you have to clean it out and replace it.
Pete
Thanks for that info on the Labelle product, much appreciated (as always).
Your last comment reminds me that there was/is an issue over the lubricant used by Lionel in the die-cast ES44AC diesels (including the two VL models). After a certain period of an engine being shelved/stored it hardened to the point that the motor could not turn the wheels. After someone on this Forum put me on to this problem I took the trucks off my CP Evo engine, excavated the remaining fragments of the stuff and replaced it with MTH grease. No issue since even though the engine doesn't get much run time.
Hancock, Do the ES44 trucks twist off like the Lion Drive trucks?
NYC Z-MAN posted“Do the ES44 trucks twist off like the Lion Drive trucks?
Yes, on mine (the die cast VL version) they do. Requires some effort or more than you might think safe. I wasn’t aware of how to remove them until I posted the issue on this Forum.
Finally got to run mine today. Lionel did a great job on this engine! Here is a quick video I took of it but the video does not do it justice!
Jeffrey
While running my Niagara #6013 with the smoke off, if I turn the smoke on while running the engine, the breaker on my ZW-L transformer pops. I am running my VL Big Boy #4014 without smoke along with this new Niagara. Isn't Lionel's biggest ZW-L transformer enough to handle two Vision Line engines?
Do I have a smoke issue developing on the Niagara? I have three hours of run-time on my engine.
Sincerely, John Rowlen
I have two Niagara's, 6005 and 6013. I run my layout with a MTH Z4000. The Z4000 has an digital amp meter. When I turn on the smoke (locomotive stationary or running) the amp meter spikes about 5 to 5.5 amps above what it just was for a few seconds, then settles down to about .5 amps higher than with the smoke unit off. Both Niagara's do this. With a couple of trains already running (drawing about 5 amps) and turning on one of the Niagara's smoke units, I see 11+ amps for a few seconds, then it settles back to (in this case) 5.5 amps. The Z4000 seems to handle that momentary load okay.
Interesting observation Jack. That may explain why I am not seeing the smoke output that some here are posting. My little LW may not be up to the task. Also makes sense that they would be giving tender overflow and steam blow off an extra jolt to get them to full output in a short time.
Pete
Jack Morey posted:I have two Niagara's, 6005 and 6013. I run my layout with a MTH Z4000. The Z4000 has an digital amp meter. When I turn on the smoke (locomotive stationary or running) the amp meter spikes about 5 to 5.5 amps above what it just was for a few seconds, then settles down to about .5 amps higher than with the smoke unit off. Both Niagara's do this. With a couple of trains already running (drawing about 5 amps) and turning on one of the Niagara's smoke units, I see 11+ amps for a few seconds, then it settles back to (in this case) 5.5 amps. The Z4000 seems to handle that momentary load okay.
Hey, I think this video by Mike Reagan may explain what is happening. If you fast forward it to about the 18 minute mark (17:58, to be exact), Mike explains that, upon initial startup of the smoke unit, the power is really high just to get the unit going, and then drops down to a normal operating smoke level (low, medium, high).
Ran into a similar situation while trying to run my Legacy Pocahontas with a Lionel CW80 with smoke unit on and lighted passenger cars. My smoke unit began flashing an error blink in the cab; solved by removing the lighted cars. Later, I added the ZWL with no issues. Since I only had a CW80 available when the Niagara arrived, I have only been running one smoke unit at a time and no cars.
Watched the video; great reminder of how smoke units are regulated.
Tom 4 posted:I have one quirky thing that is going on with my Niagara and don't know if any one else has had this issue. I run all my Lionel engines with Legacy. About a 3rd of the time when I put power to the track, the Niagara starts up like it is conventional and acting like it is not receiving the Legacy signal. This seems to be totally random, and it happens on all 4 of my tracks.
Any one else having this issue?
Any ideas from the forum for Tom??
Regarding the spike in amps that Jack saw on his Z4000, with my ZWL while starting up a Big Boy or any other legacy, there is always an immediate increase from 2amps to 4.x amps for a few seconds and then it drops back to 2.
RickM46 posted:Tom 4 posted:I have one quirky thing that is going on with my Niagara and don't know if any one else has had this issue. I run all my Lionel engines with Legacy. About a 3rd of the time when I put power to the track, the Niagara starts up like it is conventional and acting like it is not receiving the Legacy signal. This seems to be totally random, and it happens on all 4 of my tracks.
Any one else having this issue?
Any ideas from the forum for Tom??
Regarding the spike in amps that Jack saw on his Z4000, with my ZWL while starting up a Big Boy or any other legacy, there is always an immediate increase from 2amps to 4.x amps for a few seconds and then it drops back to 2.
Sounds like there’s a dead short somewhere. Like it has been stated there should be a start up increase if amp draw but then it should settle back down. Maybe try each unit individually to see if each one word on its own. Watch the amp meter on the ZW-L to see if it goes crazy. If there is a short in the unit I have found that the element could be slightly touching the side of the reservoir.
