Lionel ZW-L

Will it be ready for Christmas?????????????

quote:

 This is a reduction of 100 Watts. Will there also

be a reduction in price?

 

I would not be surprized to learn that there is a price increase.

I bought 2 of the Lionel ZW's that were produced in the late 1990's. They were capable of handling 4 180 watt bricks, for a total wattage of 720 watts. They work, but not well. They apparently had plastic used in the controller arms instead of metal and Lionel (or an after market supplier) made a replacement part. That worked better, but they never had the feel of the postwar ZW.

 

I would check out this one carefully before buying it.

 

Gerry

The ad for the ZW-L indicatesthat the transformer will be only 620 Watts.

 

I guess the L stands for "Lite!"  ZW-L Lite by 100 watts. I shoulda gone into advertising.

When did you get your O gauge rr magizine?

Got mine yesterday, 15 Feb.  The ad is a nice two page spread.  620 vs. 720.  I don't think it matters that much?  Maybe the hand of UL?

Could it just be a misprint?

It seems odd to me that it would go down by 100 Watts, I think they just superimposed a 6 instead of a 7, but I`m going to ask LIONEL on Facebook anyway.

Remember they are told by UL what they can sell. Perhaps 720 wouldn't pass UL and they had to scale back Be nice to get a comment from Lionel

Very true.  It's amazing that UL routinely approves good ole hair dryers upwards of 1500 Watts, but the organization seems to always get in the way of serious power for our hobby.     Go figure. 

Gentlemen,

   I know some of you guys are not going to like this, but I see no need to invest in a ZW-L, I run my DCS layout with the old ZW's/KW's and the new Z4K's, is there any reason I should invest in a new ZW-L when I can pick up the original ZW for resasonable money.

PCRR/Dave

 

 

Meters?

I just bought five 0-10A and 0-30V meters for $6/ea on eBay, no reason to spend hundreds for meters.

From Lionel :

 

In order for the product to be ETL certified, Lionel was required to reduce the wattage to 620W. While this is less than we had wanted and previously advertised, the safety of our products and our customers must come first. We know many will be disappointed, but we can assure you the ZW-L Transformer remains a product that will deliver the power you need – and trust.

Not a problem just buy 2 and have 1240 watts! GunrunnerJohn are those meters digital or analog? What is the suppliers name?

Ron

I bought analog meters, I find them easier to interpret at a quick glance.

 

Here's the guy with the meters, same vendor had the voltmeters: C:US:1123" target="_blank">AC 0-10A Analog Panel Ammeter

Gentlemen,
   I know some of you guys are not going to like this, but I see no need to invest in a ZW-L, I run my DCS layout with the old ZW's/KW's and the new Z4K's, is there any reason I should invest in a new ZW-L when I can pick up the original ZW for resasonable money

Got a Fire Extinguisher handy Dave?

Jon

During the digital "craze" when the car manufacturers were going digital on the dashboard I felt that digital was a step backwards. Same for clocks. Reading digital gauges requires an extra line of code in the brain. It may be different for babies that grew up with digital.

Also, I am wondering if these meters read true rms. Seems like an iron vane type analog ac meter did. Obviously rectifier types do not.

BTW, the ZW meter (new style) does not read true rms by my measurements. Not bad, but not true.

Hard to say, but they'll be useful for comparative readings anyway.  I'm not assuming they'll be dead accurate, just as a relative gauge.  If they're within 10%, it's good enough for trains.

There are probably way more postwar ZWs in use then the modern ZWs and I have never heard of a single fire reported with them.  I am sure that if a forum member had a fire due to any piece of railroad equipment, it would be all over this forum.

 

Earl

 

Sadly, a lot of these organizations feel its their JOB to find something wrong with products... then "force" the designer to make appropriate adjustments so they could justify being involved in the process.  Giving products a blanket stamp of approval too often would give the appearance they're not justifying their worth to the process.  Frustrating, I'm sure. 

 

For the heck of it, I just checked our hairdrier rating, and sure enough... a whopping 1875 watts!    And it's UL listed, but I guess Conair gets the approval 'cause they're not marketing directly to "kids".  But I can only imagine the number of households where young kids use hairdriers everyday.    Silly that Lionel was required to reduce the new ZW's power output for the reason they stated.

 

Did anyone who saw the add notice the engines on the page?  The steam were UP 4-12-2 and a N&W 2-8-8-4 (I think that was the one).  Are these a hint as to new Legacy steamers in the upcoming catalog???

 

-Allan

 

TCA # 09-64278

Tinplate Trackers of Austin, Texas http://www.trainweb.org/ttat/

 

Earl,

 

    I wasn't worried about the ZW's pictured, just the stuff piled in and around them...

 

Jon 

 

hello guys and gals........

Is there a production sample photo of that ZW-L ? We sure would like to see it but not from the catalog.

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

Does Lionel state if it is still the max power divided by 4 for any output with this new configuration?

 

Sounds like we just went from 4 x 180 Watts capability to 4 x 155 Watts capability.

 

-Dave

 

With the watts decrese is there a price drop also!! 1dollar a watt use to be about average for a transformers pricing back in the day I thought.

I looked at your profile name and figured you would be the expert on these including pricing

No sorry! Did see you tube video with john Z Saying the L stands for legacy and Neil had Input on styling and design. Short video but Nice and informative!

Jon,

   As a matter of fact there is always a big fire extinguisher near the layout, however

even thou the transformer tables look crowded, everthing was safe and secure, not one wire out of place.  Never had a problem with my original ZW or KW transformers either.

Still have not heard one good reason why I should purchase a new ZW-L, instead of an original.  Might invest in a new Z4K with side receiver however, along with another original ZW. 

PCRR/Dave

I own the current production ZW which I purchased in 2000,it worked for 20 minutes and sent it back to Charles Ro who sent me another one that lasted about 30 minutes,sent it to Lionel,waited over two months,to this day it doesnt work right.I wont buy another Lionel transformer based on my experiences and several of my friends.

Mikey

What is "ETL certified"?

 

Will the new ZW-L be UL listed?

 

A tech at MTH once told me the digital voltmeters on the Z-4000 read true RMS voltage.

ETL is an independant Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory that utilizes UL, CSA, and/or CE product standards to test items. Why Lionel went to them instead of UL is probably unanswerable. So yes, the ZW-L will be UL certified, just not UL listed---

Other than the meters and the fancy Lionel light at the bottom is it designed to control legacy command stuff better? Does the 200 speed steps enhance slow speed operation in the command enviroment Or is this new zw version with speed step enhancements in the handles Targeted for the conventional operator?

It won't be different. I had occasion to do some research into this some years ago for a project involving aviation, looking into instrumentation  design. There's a huge body of research dealing with sizes, colors, shapes, etc. of instrumentation, even their texture, involving interaction of instrumentation with the human brain.

 

There's a reason analog gauges are used in aircraft and spacecraft - research has clearly shown that the human eye and brain can process data more quickly from analog gauges than from digital ones. It's an unalterable biological fact.

 

During that digital instrumentation craze in cars during the 90s, note that manufacturers like Ferrari, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, etc. never used digital gauges. There was a reason for that.

I spend most of my working life designing and building avionics.  Even today, many of the instruments in the glass cockpit of a modern aircraft are still analog representations for that very reason.  Stuff that you don't have to digest instantly has moved to digital.  Note the trend to using an analog representation and having the digital value present as well.

 

 

Here's the T6 (JPATS Primary Trainer) that I personally worked on.

 

Another point of view:

 

Research aside (different studies of the SAME subject too often produce contradictory ressults!), I still prefer the DIGITAL meters on my Z-4000! I have been on hemodialysis for almost seven-years, and during that time frame, I have seen DIFFERENT data produced from studies on the SAME subject that resulted in a change of treatment modality protocols, with frequent reversals!  Therefore, I am a skeptic of "studies"! Often, and even with the best of intentions, bias on the part of the observer(s) is a factor in the results!

 

MY digital meters are VERY easy to "read" (and process) at a glance. Maybe I have been conditioned to them over the fourteen-years (since 1998) I have owned my two Z-4000's!

Furthermore, there are too many conflicting studies on ALL sorts of subjects based on different data collecting techniques and observations to take any ONE of them seriously.

 

At best they are temporary THEORETICAL conclusions until the NEXT study comes along to disprove the previous one(s).

 

 

I'm just gonna stick with my old PW model

 

Aren't there also studies which always produce the same results?

Looks just like the meters I just ordered.   I got the 10A AC meters and the 0-30 VAC meters.  I figure that I shouldn't be seeing more than 10A to one power district, since I'm putting 10A circuit breakers on them.

Gentlemen:

 

My LIFE depends on hemodialysis modality protocols.

 

For example, one study produces an acceptable  range for the Pth (parathyroid hormone) of 150-300, while another a range of 150-600!

 

Th kicker is the Tennessee protocol is the first one, while my North Carolina unit uses the latter. Go figure.

 

BTW, the Pth hormone regulates serum calcium and phosphorus, which in turn, affects the bone structure in end stage renal disease (kidney failure), which can result in osteopenia or worse, osteoporous!

 

And the medication (Zemplar) level depends on the Pth level.

 

How does one reconcile two DIFFERENT conclusions from studies about the SAME subject?

 

Different data collection, observation methods, and many other variables? Or just FLAWED (biased?) studies similar to cancer research re: what causes cancer: resulting in a different "flavor of the month"!

 

Some studies do confirm one other, but many more conflict with one another.

 

A healthy dose of skepticism is in order!

With all due respect, I still prefer my trusty Z-4000 digital readouts!

 

My two hobbies are staying alive (by being an informed dialysis patient) and model trains, not necessarily in that order!

You're correct, cjack. Bear in mind that Tinplate Art is a contrarian from way back. 

In fact, the superiority of analog instruments in transmitting information to the human brain has been settled now for so long, without contradiction, that it's pretty much set in stone. I did a little work with a psychologist who worked at NASA 40 plus years ago on ergonomic cockpit design, and it was well-settled a good deal prior to that time.

Gentlemen:

 

There are ALWAYS exceptions when it comes to human behavior.

 

I have been monitoring those digital meters on my Z-4000 for FOURTEEN-YEARS, and have made rapid adjustments to the voltage level whenever necessary without hesitation. Maybe I have a digital gene?

 

Seriously, I believe the new Lionel ZW-L will be a huge success, and it is a handsome design in spite of the analog meters!

 

Contrarian? Really?

It's hard to imagine what criteria were used to certify as safe the 620W version but not the 720W version. Also, I wonder what Lionel did to de-rate it. And of course, whether a simple (unapproved) change would get it back to the original spec. --Joe [Why can't I get paragraph breaks with this I-pad?]

Being a User Experience designer who does a lot of Usability testing, i would disagree. The scan time for a analog gauge is longer than a digital gauge. 

Being a user, I find it different.

 

More deaths have occurred from hairdryers than from toy train transformers, I can assure you that.

 

Big difference...  what's the power output of a hair dryer available at the binding posts?

You're free to believe what you like.  I can point to a mission-critical application, the aircraft cockpit.  The reason they're still presenting analog representations in a glass cockpit is that a lot of pretty smart folks don't believe you.  There have also been extensive studies on the topic for aircraft cockpits, and the answers always come up the same.

The 2012 catalog shows the ZW-L as 620 Watts and a maxium of 10Amps per channel.

Does this mean a maximum of 15.5 Volts per output?

It is not UL that approved the ZW-L but ETL.

The price is still $799.

 

I did the math today.  It's cheaper than buying 4- 180 power bricks & 4- TPCs if you want to run both Legacy & conventional on 4 blocks. $99 + $229 X 4 = $1312   And there are other cool features that I like about it.  I hope it works as advertised.

It could put out 18 vac or 10 amps, but not both at the same time...or it could do both at the same time, but not all four channels at once...or they could have just rated it below its real capabilities and manage both from all four channels for a time.

I'd like to see that re-priced with PM-1's instead of TPCs.

PM available now is $79.99 ea + powermaster bridge to run Legacy - another $54.99

and  direct lockons to protect pm for each block are $ 51.79 ea 

I'm thinking I want to stay away from pms with Legacy.  and I'm also thinking they made the ZWL with Legacy operations in mind

Just for information. In reference to Analog Panel Ammeter. I was reading yesterday a members remarks about AllElectronics.com. I checked out their site and ordered the 0-15 amp and the 0-25 volt meters. The cost is more than the e-bay site, $12.00 each and $7.00 shipping. The good news is the order is shipped already from CA.

I had ordered 2 each from the e-bay site about 10 days ago and there still in China. I'm guessing meters are the same, but we will see. I needed them like yesterday.

 

Larry Peterson

Erwin, TN.

It took me about three weeks to get my analog meters from China, but the price was right.