Lowering Lionel F7s

I'm modifying my Lionel F-3's (dummies) to line up with my 3rd Rail, 2R, powered F-7's and it looks like it will require a 3/32" spacer to do this. I installed 1/8" spacers years ago and it really dropped the Lionel bodies (almost too low although they looked aggressive and more massive), but it's more important to match roof heights than maybe having an extra 1/32" of space between the trucks and bodies.

One observation becomes apparent to me. Lionel wins the truck sideframe award between the two. I was going to change out the Lionel side frames to brass P&D trucks several times, but every time I really look at the Lionel frames they are too nice to change. Incredibly sharp detail, even on the simulated springs. 

Butch

The F3's are much much easier to lower than the F7s. I'm not sure I'm going to even mess with my F7's, but then again Mario convinced me to lower my F3's after I had decided to get rid of them.

Yeah, the F-3's turned out to be a piece of cake to lower.  I had Joe F. convert them to 2R and add scale wheels and I'll most likely make them all dummies so they run with my other horizontal drive locos.  I'm still of the mindset the Lionel F units are some of the nicest and most accurate EMD F unit bodies ever produced in O, including all but the latest brass.  

Butch

If you do he measurements, the Lionel side frames are only 6" wider overall than the scale conversion from the drawings. That's a scale 3" wider on each side. 

I can live with that. 

Thant's good news about the fidelity to scale and width of the side frames.  What happened to the frames of the recently released E9's I wonder? Many complained that they are too wide...

Laidoffsick posted:

The F3's are much much easier to lower than the F7s. I'm not sure I'm going to even mess with my F7's, but then again Mario convinced me to lower my F3's after I had decided to get rid of them.

Well, if you really want to point fingers... It's LOS's Kadee conversion videos, and his GP30 that got me started...

Yeah, I looked at bringing in the side frames on my F-3's, but again, as Mario pointed out, 3" scale inches isn't enough to be concerned with. And, it really shows off the detail of the trucks since they are a little more exposed. 

If I ever really get ambitious I guess I can fill in the countersunk screw head hole in the frame tab and try to drill and tap a new hole, but the taper of the countersunk hole uses up about half the existing factory hole, so I'm not sure if JB Weld or any product would hold. 

Yes, LOS is a very talented modeler and quite the weathering guru. He has weathered some of the best looking locos and cars I've seen in 2 or 3 rail (the GP-30 is only one example). I don't think the number of rails is as important as the desire to have the best representation of the prototype locos and rolling stock on your layout. I'm finding out there are quite a number of 3R guys who appreciate this aspect of the hobby as much as anyone in any gauge. 

Butch

up148 posted:

I'm modifying my Lionel F-3's (dummies) to line up with my 3rd Rail, 2R, powered F-7's and it looks like it will require a 3/32" spacer to do this. I installed 1/8" spacers years ago and it really dropped the Lionel bodies (almost too low although they looked aggressive and more massive), but it's more important to match roof heights than maybe having an extra 1/32" of space between the trucks and bodies.

One observation becomes apparent to me. Lionel wins the truck sideframe award between the two. I was going to change out the Lionel side frames to brass P&D trucks several times, but every time I really look at the Lionel frames they are too nice to change. Incredibly sharp detail, even on the simulated springs. 

Butch

I did the same thing... lowering my Lionel F3s (and now the F7B) to not only scale height, but to match my Atlas F2...

CentralFan1976 posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

The F3's are much much easier to lower than the F7s. I'm not sure I'm going to even mess with my F7's, but then again Mario convinced me to lower my F3's after I had decided to get rid of them.

Well, if you really want to point fingers... It's LOS's Kadee conversion videos, and his GP30 that got me started...

 

and this...

While looking through pictures, I noticed a step missing from the Lionel F3A, so I pulled it out to fix. While I had it out, I added the ATS shoe to the engineer's side, lead truck side frame, on the trailing axle. 

Enjoy. 

Nice work Mario.  I'm currently working on fixing some of the SS/GGD F-7 issues and will report back on my progress.

Butch 

up148 posted:

Nice work Mario.  I'm currently working on fixing some of the SS/GGD F-7 issues and will report back on my progress.

 

Butch 

Look forward to seeing the updates. Yours, too... LOS. 

Here are two photos showing the stock SS/GGD side window/vent installation and a stock Lionel F-3 window that slipped right in with no alteration. Looks better to me, but everyone might not agree. 

Butch

100% improvement.... excellent work Butch! 

1000 times better. Does Lionel still sell the window?

Ron H

Well the PN Butch used shows unavailable now, but they also show 2 different sets of PNs....

1 set for scale F3 and F7

1 set for scale F7

I put a caliper on the windows of my Lionel F3 and F7, then my Sunset F7's, and ordered the F7 set. We shall see..... I'm pretty sure either set will fit.