Menards scale flats, a review and comparison to the Lionel PS-4

Thanks for the review. It is true that some of the trucks can be hard rolling but with some tweaking they will roll much better.

I have found with each delivery of new cars they have improved the the couplers and wheel sets. 

Dave

Thanks for the side-by-side. I've been accumulating some load items to build up a modest military train. These are a very economical route to take, good looking with scale proportions. I think all the rolling stock they sell comes with a recommendation to lubricate, good advice that is best not to ignore with these items.

I lubricate all of their rolling stock first and once done, they glide as well as any other rolling stock.

Rick

I was ready for a review that was trying to show unlike Lionel they are. I was pleasantly surprise with your non-bias type review. Thanks for a honest review, seeing as you put it, your comparing a $50 car to a $30 car. To be honest I thought to get a scale Flat from Lionel it would be more than you say. ( not debating just what I was under the impression it to be. ( you learn more every day   Again thanks for the review it was a very good one

The couplers seem great.  The oil and a little tweaking should definitely help.  They wouldn't even roll down a grade by themselves.  But I don't want to dissuade anyone from buying them, for the price they are a good buy!  Just a little work and the rolling would be great.  

John, did you try the lubricating your flats yet? You say "should", but for your evaluation to be complete it would be great to see if it helps yours.

Rick

rtraincollector posted:

I was ready for a review that was trying to show unlike Lionel they are. I was pleasantly surprise with your non-bias type review. Thanks for a honest review, seeing as you put it, your comparing a $50 car to a $30 car. To be honest I thought to get a scale Flat from Lionel it would be more than you say. ( not debating just what I was under the impression it to be. ( you learn more every day &nbsp Again thanks for the review it was a very good one

Well you are right.  To get a new PS4 would be a lot more.  I'm buying on the secondary market at that price.  So yeah you are correct the difference might be more.    

I appreciate the review.  I may buy some of the menards now.

Ranger Rick posted:

John, did you try the lubricating your flats yet? You say "should", but for your evaluation to be complete it would be great to see if it helps yours.

Rick

I went upstairs and oiled it and it helped a lot. The problem appears to be that two of the axles do not have the wheels seated true.  That is, there is a slight wobble to them.  Nothing a pair of channel locks won't fix tomorrow. 

For those of us late to the party...where is Menard's having these made?  How do they get things done so quickly?

China. 

Do you suppose they are "sharing" information, tools, etc with other manufacturers?  I thought tooling was very expensive...so, there must be some ready-made tools in the PRC somewhere.

SD60M posted:

For those of us late to the party...where is Menard's having these made?  How do they get things done so quickly?

I don't know, perhaps Mark from Menard's could chime in without fear of revealing too much by way of trade secrets. But it seems they are certainly alone in terms of bringing a wide variety of economically priced yet desirable products to market much more quickly than other companies. Perhaps part of the secret is not issuing catalogs that build up anticipation and often result in disappointment with prolonged release schedules or cancellation, but that's another topic...

Check this load out: a very interesting tool vehicle I've never seen before (then again, I'm no expert when it comes to military vehicles, either). It's a tank recovery vehicle T-2, according to a caption I came across with the photo. How cool would it be to find or scratch-build something like this for a military train! Should anyone happen to own one, I'm quite sure you'd be the only person on your block to have something like this in the garage. (Maybe Lee has one to go with his jeep!)

tackindy posted:

So I bit the bullet and ordered a 4 pack of the Menards scale flats.  At the price they are a great flat car.  But for those on the fence here is the low down.  

Here it is.  The Menards Military Transport Command flat car.  I'm assuming all other road names are the same build just different colors and graphics.  Overall it looks good.  Let's dive in. 

Here you see the underside.  The frame is plastic, but sturdy.   It doesn't feel like it will warp or anything.  But compared to Lionels metal frame it's definitely lighter.  The bed is masonite as you see by the smooth underside.  But on top it looks good with grooves cut about 1mm into the decking to represent individual boards.  

Let's talk trucks. They don't roll as smoothly as I wanted but maybe a little oil will help.  They are fully sprung metal and even the caps rotate with the wheels.  That's a plus!  The design is definitely Lionel looking.  As you see the coupler bars move independent of the trucks for tight turns. They are spring loaded to stay straight if not in a curve though so this is a big plus!  

A close up of the plastic molded stirrups and deck.  You can see the six small silver screws that mount the deck to the frame, and a rubber plug over the screw holding the truck on. They covered the rubber with a tan substance to try and hide it but it rubbed right off.  That's a negative mark but not a problem if you can hide it under the load. 

A view of the graphics.  The only real problem here is a "Built 2016 By MENARDS" mark that will need to go, and the individual numbers were a bit crooked.  Yes I said individually numbered, there's a big plus!

Here it is on the left next to the famous Lionel PS4 flat.  Size is comparable. The Menards is a few millimeters wider.  The "aged" deck beats Lionel but the screws mess that up.  

Underneath it's a big difference!  Lionel has much greater detail but them again we are talking a $26 flat vs a $50+ one!  

So,  I'm happy with them.  I think you will be too unless you are a rivet counter. They weigh about 1/6 the Lionel and won't run quite as smooth, but for the price you can't beat them.  This is a great kitbashing or "build your own load" car especially for beginners or budget conscious RRs. 

Thank you for an excellent and FAIR review.

I have a bunch of these, and I will say that it's pretty mandatory to oil any of Menards rolling stock before you run it, the difference is night and day.  They will never roll as freely as stuff with needle point axles and tapered wheels, but building a 30-35 car consist with a single locomotive hasn't been a problem after proper lubrication.

The extra rolling resistance is engineered into the Menards flatcart to compensate for a lack of a brake wheel to prevent runaways. 

RickO posted:

The extra rolling resistance is engineered into the Menards flatcart to compensate for a lack of a brake wheel to prevent runaways. 

Automatic brakes, they're modern cars.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

RickO posted:

The extra rolling resistance is engineered into the Menards flatcart to compensate for a lack of a brake wheel to prevent runaways. 

Automatic brakes, they're modern cars.

There are two threads about braking issues, or lack threreof, in the REAL TRAINS section of the forum.

I'm planning to order a couple for a couple of old Industrial Rail Trolley shells I have for loads on the way to the scrap dealer.

How long is the deck?  (In real inches, or scale feet).

I have a Menards flat car from 2015.  Mine has a slight arch in the body.  Nothing too severe, but it prevents a long load from sitting flat without some cribbing.  I made a pipe load which covers the truck screws and adds needed weight. 

The photo shows the arch in the center of the car.

Tom

Mixed Freight posted:

How long is the deck?  (In real inches, or scale feet).

Menards has it listed at 14-3/4"L x 1"H x 2-5/8"W.  that may be including the couplers. 

Tom Densel posted:

I have a Menards flat car from 2015.  Mine has a slight arch in the body.  Nothing too severe, but it prevents a long load from sitting flat without some cribbing.  I made a pipe load which covers the truck screws and adds needed weight. 

The photo shows the arch in the center of the car.

Tom

I think they tried to model the real car, a prototype unloaded flatcar does tend to have an arch up, but the weight of the load solves that problem.

Ok I had to true the wheels (shouldn't need to do that) and now they run very nice!  As GunrunnerJohn said, they aren't needlepoint axles but the rotating bearing caps make up for that.