MTH CHARGE PORT- final report!

I would pull the shell any way and  test the battery. It should be an 8.4 volt battery. If it is an original white battery replace it.

CNGW,

   That better engineering idea is called the BCR, never charge batteries again.  The P3 has the Super Cap built right into the Engines, in the P2 you swap the Super Cap (BCR) with the old batteries, IMO a mandatory P1 upgrade also.

PCRR/Dave

The question related to the charging port, not the battery.  Willygee is right that a white battery should be replaced.  Whether it is worth the extra cost of a BCR/supercap depends on an analysis of the prospective life of a 5-volt board vs. a 5-6 year expected life for a battery.  "Youse pays your money; youse makes yer cherce."

I would remove the shell and see if the socket has become loose.  I have not experienced this issue.  You give me pause when you say the opening is square and won't admit entrance by the round plug. I don't have any 5-volt board locos remaining; I converted all to 3-volt.

Did you buy this loco new?  If so, was it ever repaired by you or someone else?  I'm wondering if some of the guts have been changed.  What is the loco model number?

First, thank you for the replies. Second, answers.

No sense pulling the shell to find out what is in there, I put a new rechargeable in there the end of 2012/ beginning of 2013.

Dave, I have a couple of engines w/ the BCR, either PS1 or PS2 w/o the charging port. How about I get a little run time out of this batt before I replace it? It should be good for a few more years, I would think.

RJR, yep bought it new, had it, have had no work done on it...other than to open it to put that batt in. I remember when I put the batt in I had the charge fit problem.  

The charge port is right between the "ears" for the speaker bracket screws, as you can see in the pict. The fit on the engine base frame. The frame has a square cut into it there, and under that, the actual port is mounted to the base frame .....on the inside, flush up against it. Nothing to come loose and go up into the engine, the direction to make things right would be down...and the base of the port against the inside of the base is NOT going to let that happen.

The square  opening is too small for the charging adapter. Perhaps earlier adapters had plugs that were much smaller in dia. The one on my MTH dual charger is 3/8 " at the rubber end, and the square appears to be about 5/16.

I could shave the barrel end into a 3/16 square...but that seems silly. There should be another way. (I know, make and adapter to fit a male to the engine and a female on the other end to take the plug....but come one. Really? 

I guess I am the only one that ever bought one of these SW7 engines and tried to use the charger. It is a B&O Chessie, road number 9603, again, rather old. The box is in the attic, so I can not really give a part number on this. That is 3 levels you are looking at, starting w/ the port base low, then the engine base, then the speaker housing ears. The port base has NOT dropped, it is against the inside as far as it will go, flush to the base! Bad Design?

Any of this information help any repair guy or MTH gearhead? All help appreciated.

Greg

CNGW, a battery should be good for over 5 years.  I've had some 2.4 batteries go for 10.

I would wait for some comments from guys like Marty Fitzhenry, GGG, or Gunrunnerjohn, who may have actually encountered this issue.  If you use the loco a few hours a month, it should keep an adequate charge.  Another thought is to call MTH tech support during the week.

RJR posted:

CNGW, a battery should be good for over 5 years.  I've had some 2.4 batteries go for 10.

 

I would wait for some comments from guys like Marty Fitzhenry, GGG, or Gunrunnerjohn, who may have actually encountered this issue.  If you use the loco a few hours a month, it should keep an adequate charge.  Another thought is to call MTH tech support during the week.

Thank you for that, you verified what I thought about the new batt I installed about 2 yrs ago. The engine (none of my engines really) have been run in well over a year - some two (personal problems, not equipment related) and I am getting around to charging them all....two are PS1, the others are PS2 and charge either w/ the charger or on the track w/ no problem.

It is a little irritating, to have this port and charger, and not be able to use it, and thus my post....hoping that one of the tech guys like Marty or GGG or Guns would be able to provide info. I have not heard from them, perhaps they will see this topic and chime in.

Appreciate your info, have a wonderful Christmas. Greg

CNGW,

If you're so inclined, you could use a Dremel to trim back the plug on your charger a bit so that it better fits in the charging port.

Never saw that one, but I think Barry's suggestion makes sense, just taper the plug so it clears the sides of the hole.

Looking at the photo, I don't see a screw in the one hole by the socket, and can't make out the other.  Is the socket screwed to the frame?

RJR  two holes, one on either side. Looks like the socket is screwed to the frame....from the inside.

Barry, that was my thought, and thus why I wrote " it seems silly to have to do so" since it is an MTH charger and an MTH engine made for the charger. But, when I wrote that, I was thinking just  take a utility knife and taper the 4 sides of the rubber plug 1/32 each side to get it to fit. Still seems to be silly, but probably the only answer, since no one else has one.

Thanks again to all, Greg

Oh, and since placing the engine on the track for a few hours does nothing to bring up a charge, I am thinking I have to open it anyway and probably put in a new batt! Might have been a defective new batt a couple of years ago. Greg

CGNW, Sitting for an extended period might have killed the battery, or it could have come disconnected.  Put away fully charged, I wouldn't think sitting for a year would have ruined it.  My recollection is thazt some of the 8.4 volt batteries were NiCad and some were NiMH.  The former hold their charge for longer.

I'd be leery about shaving the side of the plug, for fear of compromising integrity.  Perhaps your local radio shack has a plug that would fit, hopefully on a short extension cord.  Going to a BCR or supercap would eliminate the need for charging, but the old 5-volt board could last for years or until tomorrow, and if it failed, that would be dollars down the drain.

Are there spacers between the socket and the frame that could be removed?  The puzzlement is that over the years, I have had a number of locos with 8.4 volt batteries, and don't recall any issues with the charging system.  Since I have always run the layout at least monthly, and would always leave locos with batteries on poweredb tracks when I did, rarely did I recharge.

If the loco has been on a powered track for a few hours, and you start up the loco and then cut power to the track, how long does the sound continue.

Robert,

FWIW, I have encountered this same exact issue just once. At the time, I found that none of my 3 chargers would fit  this particular engine's charging port.

In my case, since the battery was old, I took the easy way out and simply swapped batteries. I may have actually sold the engine since then.

In the future, if I encounter this situation again, I'll revisit the solution.

RJR posted:

CGNW, Sitting for an extended period might have killed the battery, or it could have come disconnected.  Put away fully charged, I wouldn't think sitting for a year would have ruined it. 

This may have sat for 3 year plus.

My recollection is thazt some of the 8.4 volt batteries were NiCad and some were NiMH.  The former hold their charge for longer.

This was nicad

I'd be leery about shaving the side of the plug, for fear of compromising integrity.

Cutting it was my first inclination (like Barry said...and if he said it, it must be right! No really, I agree with him) and it seems to be the answer....if the batt will take a charge

Are there spacers between the socket and the frame that could be removed?  The puzzlement is that over the years, 

Not sure, but it does not appear so..as shown in that poor picture. Getting inside is the only way to know.

If the loco has been on a powered track for a few hours, and you start up the loco and then cut power to the track, how long does the sound continue.

It does not keep sound going at all. That was why I think the batt may be bad. Or the onboard charging system. I shaved the plug. If not joy tomorrow on the track, shell will come off to check batt and wire status.

Thanks, Greg

The switcher has a cast frame so it is thicker.  The plug really is too big to fully seat?  I would take shell off and see if the screws are loose or if it can be repositioned to sit flusher with chassis.   G

First)  That cast frame is 3/16" thick! And the charge port plate, is under the electronics, on top of that frame, the frame having a square cut into  it, will not allow the larger plug  to insert into the smaller square, hole. I shaved 1/32 off of 4 sides of the rubber plug (easier to machine than the frame metal), and it drops right in. No harm no foul.

Second) Removed the shell, pulled the batt. It was new MTH green, from March 2012, had plenty of voltage to it, so I am thinking it has been charging the whole time. Put a regular batt in, sound stayed on for 5 secs or so. Put another rechargeable in, same deal.

Tried the green MTH that came out....sound on for 5 secs or so after shutdown - like it is supposed to be.

Could have been metal connectors on the connecting pad were not tight, a wire not blinking correctly at something, voo doo..........who knows, it seems to work properly now.

Buttoned it up and seems fine again. Thanks to all for replies. Greg (No Dave, I did not put in a BCR.)

Now THAT is a frame!  Must be Korean.  The battery clip, or plug into board, could have been loose.