MTH Operating Platform Issue

I think theres a low voltage option.  mine is in storage right now or else i would look it up for you

walt

@Craftech posted:

30-9107 MTH Operating Platform.  Anyone have one of these?

Bought it second hand NIB.  Passengers do not go all the way up or down.

Measured fixed voltage at my supply distribution terminal.  It is 13.62v  Ac

Requirements are 14-16V.  Tried feeding it track voltage at 16-17v and it went all the way up and down.

Is the voltage that critical or is something internal possibly not working correctly?

John

Yes, the voltage is critical, also critical, knowing if yours has the modifications or adjustments.

KEY from the first PDF A linked in the post below:

This post from @Jon G has 3 PDF files attached you should review

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...9#144312037651193109

And from a previous topic

@Jon G posted:

It may just need adjustment.  There are arms on each switch that may not be depressed enough to actuate the switch.  You should hear an audible click when the lever is depressed and the switch is actuated.  You can check continuity between terminal 1 (near pivot) and each other terminal (2 & 3).  One side is NO, the other NC.  They will change state when actuated.

Thanks Vernon and Walt

I'll check that out.

John

Again, my take is you have an early unmodified unit with limit switches that are pretty stiff. Because of this having to push over a stiff limit switch to reach fully locked up or down positions is why yours takes additional voltage.

In the bigger picture of things, the problem is this, if you don't have enough voltage and the mechanism binds and doesn't toggle to full locked- you run the risk of cooking the solenoid. The idea is, the mechanism needs to snap sharply and when in the locked position up or down, then the solenoid is no longer powered for that direction. It's that in-between state where things can go bad if it sits there cooking trying to move but cannot.

Sometimes you can get away with running an item undervoltage but not in all cases.  The fact that it runs fine at the recommended voltage tells you nothing is wrong with it.  Does it bind at all when it runs ? Being that close to run and not run I would just try and hit the 16 volts if you can.  You also say you take the feed off of a distribution point.  If something else starts on on that same line it could make your voltage drop enough to stop your unit should you get it to run at the 13.6 volts.  Good luck.

FWIW, I've spent some time with this on the bench because I was working with the idea of using either an oldschool 2 position E-unit or more modern latching state (also called bi-stable) relay module to create an operating station where every other time a train passes the passengers or freight is down waiting, and then disappears up the NEXT time the train passes. With 2 of them spaced around a loop track, and started with one up and one down- the passengers or freight appear to move from one place to another.

Again, one station is cool- 2 working in different locations around the layout takes the effect even further.

Are the spring with lever and Zippy micro switches sold as a modification kit?

If so - where to buy?

Thanks,

John

Well upon closer examination the roof and base are crooked.  I'll start by straightening that out.

There is also a lot of side to side play and wobble in the plastic lever with the passengers attached that swings up and down, but the single screw holding it is tight.

John

Trying to find the kit and coming up short. That said I found key components.

Also, under the older MTH site found the parts breakdown of the platform

https://www.mthtrains.com/site...loded/30as11893e.pdf

Which showed my "guess" was correct- that BB-0000021 was the correct switch.

Spring would be IE0000049A for the modified one?

Sadly, trying all word combinations I could thing of (adjuster, spring, return, platform, operating, kit) I could not find the stamped metal adjuster arm? Maybe use a wire eyelet?

this was "the kit"

https://www.mthpartsandsales.com/shop/search

Thanks for doing all that Vernon.

John

If I search MTH for the word "Zippy" that same switch comes up so it must be right.

To try to help out I don’t got my platform. I guess I was wrong there isn’t a setting for low-voltage. But there are directions in there for how to adjust things for low-voltage versus high voltage.

To try to help out I dug out my platform. I guess I was wrong there isn’t a setting for low-voltage. But there are directions in there for how to adjust things for low voltage versus high voltage.

The directions say though that it is geared to operate at 12 to 14 V AC so that should mean something.

you mentioned in your opening post that you’re directions say 14 to 16 V. I’m looking at my manual right now and it says 12 to 14 V. Even the controller has stamped on it 12 to 14 V. I can’t repeat everything in the manual but there’s actually a segment on how to fix something called a spring tension for the lower voltage and there’s also an adjustment for higher voltage I could’ve sworn there was a setting for low-voltage but obviously I’m thinking of a different device

@walt rapp posted:

To try to help out I don’t got my platform. I guess I was wrong there isn’t a setting for low-voltage. But there are directions in there for how to adjust things for low-voltage versus high voltage.

To try to help out I dug out my platform. I guess I was wrong there isn’t a setting for low-voltage. But there are directions in there for how to adjust things for low voltage versus high voltage.

The directions say though that it is geared to operate at 12 to 14 V AC so that should mean something.

you mentioned in your opening post that you’re directions say 14 to 16 V. I’m looking at my manual right now and it says 12 to 14 V. Even the controller has stamped on it 12 to 14 V. I can’t repeat everything in the manual but there’s actually a segment on how to fix something called a spring tension for the lower voltage and there’s also an adjustment for higher voltage I could’ve sworn there was a setting for low-voltage but obviously I’m thinking of a different device

I bought mine used (NIB) from a forum member.  It could be that it is older and yours is newer with the modification already done on it.  My directions say 14-16v

John

Walt,

I just looked at the controller and you are correct.  It says 12-16V on it, but the directions say 14-16V

I don't understand why 13.65 volts would cause a hangup in both directions.

Again, is there a lot of side play in your plastic lever that has the passengers attached to it?

Internally I can confirm that mine does not have the modification.

John

I had one of these and it would not fully extend at 14 volts, I increased the power to 18 volts, and that did the trick.

@Craftech posted:

Walt,

I just looked at the controller and you are correct.  It says 12-16V on it, but the directions say 14-16V

I don't understand why 13.65 volts would cause a hangup in both directions.

Again, is there a lot of side play in your plastic lever that has the passengers attached to it?

Internally I can confirm that mine does not have the modification.

John

my people go up straigt and true John.  My controller does NOT say 12-16 but rather it says 12-14.  I didn't know, before this thread, that there was a different version.

"my people go up straight and true John."  Mine wobbles and the screw is tight.  Not sure about loosening it to mess with it.

I took it apart to align the roof with the base, but discovered that the entire base is warped so that is impossible.  One of the roof supports is at angle and cannot be straightened (probably due to the warped base)

I shave the inside edges of the guide to 45 degrees as the modification pdf suggested.  Made no difference.  Tested it again at 16V with a separate power supply and it still hung up part way up and part way down.

Got out a separate Z1000 brick and applied a full 18V (as Craig suggested) and this time it went all the way up and all the way down most of the time.

I guess I could mess with the spring and try it again.  Attach an eyelet to it (as Vernon suggested) to loosen some of the tension.  But the solenoid doesn't "sound right" unless 18V is applied.   Two new micro switches (that may or may not work) and a spring (without the extension) delivered will be nearly $30.  Not sure it is worth it.

I have a 16V doorbell transformer I could try.

Thanks,

John

If the modification components are not readily available and/or the modifications are not in your comfort zone (e.g. soldering), has anyone tried a $1 PTC-polyfuse thermal cutoff switch?

The "old" version seems to operate at 16-17V for the OP and 18V for Craig. The issue seems to be the case where the mechanism jams with sustained voltage applied to the solenoid causing meltdown.  The solenoid should do its thing in a fraction of a second and then one of the micro switches cuts power.

The idea is a polyfuse could limit the amount of time power is applied to, say, 2 seconds.

This technique is used in the solenoid in turnouts where micro switches are supposed to cut power. But sometimes the turnout jams midway from an obstruction. Likewise this is used to protect the electromagnet in uncoupling operating tracks to limit the time that the coil is powered.

@stan2004 posted:

If the modification components are not readily available and/or the modifications are not in your comfort zone (e.g. soldering), has anyone tried a $1 PTC-polyfuse thermal cutoff switch?

The "old" version seems to operate at 16-17V for the OP and 18V for Craig. The issue seems to be the case where the mechanism jams with sustained voltage applied to the solenoid causing meltdown.  The solenoid should do its thing in a fraction of a second and then one of the micro switches cuts power.

The idea is a polyfuse could limit the amount of time power is applied to, say, 2 seconds.

This technique is used in the solenoid in turnouts where micro switches are supposed to cut power. But sometimes the turnout jams midway from an obstruction. Likewise this is used to protect the electromagnet in uncoupling operating tracks to limit the time that the coil is powered.

Hi Stan,

Are you saying bypass both switches and put two PTC's in their place?  Something like a Bourns MF-R050?

John