N to O; grasping the O psychology

Big trains,big sound, big smoke, and big couplers to name a few. Gone is the need for impeccably clean  and perfectly laid trackwork. IMO the best part of O guage is smooth reliable operation, no more "cars that derail for some unknown reason",or "jerky locomotive operation even though the track is as clean as you can get it". Its all about getting to the buisness of running trains, not weighting cars checking coupler heights or wheelset guage.I switched from H.O. and am never looking back, the sound alone is the next best thing to having the prototype in your basement.

For decades I had an N layout.  I made the change about 7 years ago: reason #1 was: I could never repair any N guage loco, and I could see that it was going to get to be hopeless to even work on the tiny stuff as I got older.

Reason #2: N gauge seems to me all about the layout - you can't really see much detail of the trains.  O guage is all about the trains - you really can't do even a tenth as much "stuff." 

   Example, in my N gauge layout, I had a sixteen city block in my downtown with 116 buildings, etc., and a suburban area with about 60 houses and a school and a landfill, etc., and a really cool trashy trailer part with a dozen trailers on it, etc.  Lots of real-world scenery modeling, etc..  On my O gauge layout built on the very same benchspace, when done, I will have no more than 20 buildings.  But the locos are  much, much bigger, detailed, make good sound, and are alot of fun to run, and look at.  I was/am more interested in the locos . . .

Pat, how much space do you have to work with? If you model modern prototype which require larger radius' you might want to consider an around the wall layout. If you modeled '30s logging RR's then you would have more flexibility assuming you want to run Scale size equipment. I'd suggest picking up some issues of OGR and CTT magazines to see what folks have crammed into a given space.

Pete

Funny, I just bought a Bachmann N Scale 4-6-0 yesterday. 

OK, so I need the Hubble to see it and I don't really have a use for it, but it looks great and runs like a switch watch on DCC.  It'll compliment the Kadee/Micro Trains cars from my brief reprise in N Scale during the final years of the last century.

But hey, it was half price...

Rusty

Pretend, that's how to make the leap I think. For each scene, look at it with your child's imagination.

The train didn't just come around an unrealistic light curve, look at it on the straight.  Too fast for the curve, again, I'm running at that speed to watch the train on this or that straight away. Going slow, the curves look better, so slow is when I view those scenes.  And so on.

I think you're a onto something with your idea on scenes. View each scene the way you imagine it, even if the view of the layout overall isn't as realistic as each scene on its own.  What you gain is the bigness of the engines and trains.

I've thought if this recently in coming to terms with a smallish room (12 by 15 or so) for an o scale layout.

Enjoy!

I too, was an n scaler. As others have pointed out, the track doesn't not have to be spotless. If you still want to run operating sessions, O scale will do that. The sound of these modern engines has to be experienced to be believed. The simplicity of using reverse loops is so much better than dc/dcc.

I switched over when my bifocals made it difficult to work with n or ho stuff. It could also have been being in my 50's at the time!

The room is 11 ft x 12 feet...I can do something around 3 of the walls. I want the option for continuous run and have thought of a "main" line in the middle with a return loop at each end. That middle scene I'm figuring could be a fav rail fan spot to watch trains come through the junction and to one of the branches. I already have a MTH SW switcher and caboose, shortline trains are short. I've abandoned the idea of any if the switching on those branches, just the main junction scene with trains entering/exiting, staging, small bits of operation. 

My wife is 100% behind this  idea, simplistic, no spagetti's of track and aggravation, and I could uber-detail the main scene but she's easing the transition by reminding me that these trains are BIG, it's about the trains and not the valley, and I'm not going to get a lot into the space.

I have a fav prototype junction I'll try to post a Google Earth pic as a basis to start...

Hope this pic turns out w/the scrolling...
I'm thinking of this as the Junction main scene with 2-3 tracks exiting right and left (to the return loops) representing out of sight branchs to several towns and the interchange. My one scene could include one grain hauler in the back, small engine house w/passing siding in the front, MOW gear in the "Y"...I'm coming to grips with the trains being BIG, the structures are even BIGGER.

Pennsy484...... 12 by 15 is small?!?!?!  I am running mine in a 10x9 room!  And I have managed three mainlines so far with an inner loop on one and two sidings!  I would LOVE to have a 12x15!  But then I guess we always want MORE MORE MORE!  

John Armstrong, who modeled in O, preached the idea of "selective compression". You won't have room to duplicate the prototype, but you can duplicate its function by omitting certain things are not essential and selectively shrinking even the things you leave in.

Operations-wise, a short train and a long train are still each "a train". No need to do everything full-size.

The same might be said for scenery. In O, it is usually finding a way to suggest a huge building, rather than actually building it.

I think the choice of a junction to model is a good one. Make sure you have plenty of hidden staging planned, to provide you with "through" trains.

11x12 is not a lot of space in the context of building an "island" layout, but the dynamic changes when you go around the walls. In three-rail, you can build a layout with 36" radius (O-72) curves which will support any 3-rail piece of equipment produced to date using around the walls. Here's one I was tinkering around with for an 11x12 bedroom with a 48" radius (O-96) on the curves. This was done using ScaleTrax track and turnouts; mainline turnouts are #6 while the industry spurs are fed from #4's.

My Massey Junction Hi-Rail plan is going something like this: U-shaped around the wall...I have 8' x 3' on the left for a Chestertown Branch return loop; 9' x 3' on the other side for Centreville Branch with a narrower shelf inbetween as the Junction focal point i.e. engine shed, granary industry, passing siding.  Hidden backside of the right loop would pretend-represent destination to/ from the interchange in Delaware. I think this plan is simple, giving me most of my design elements for scenery (I'm a whiz at this), switching and operation, constant run, partially-visually-blocked O-31 curves, some straights for train showoff, some staging...in a small space.

Ideas or critiques?

That's a great plan. If I were to modify it, I would include a spur going opposite from the other two. That would add interesting switching, because I sometimes like to have operating sessions.

Looks like a lot of us got out of N Scale, and for the same reasons. The main one being able to see the darn trains.

My next layout will be a Civil War O Scale. Haven't finalized it yet, but I've thought of using a reverse loop somewhere. Within one loop will be an army camp, and the other will be a town near the Army's supply depot. The trains run troops and material back and forth. What I'm envisioning is similar to your diagram, Pat.

Hello AGHRMatt.........

I LOVE the island track plan using the scaletrax and 11 by 12 room that you created.  Is 0-96 the widest curves to fit in that space?  I asked because I will soon have the Santa fe 2-10-4 from 3rd and 6 Williams scale 72 foot Madisons and want to use the widest curves possible to fit in space like your track plan is. The whole scale train is about 200 inches or 16.66 feet long.  I see that the widest MTH scaletrax is 0-80 so how did you do it ?  I wish i can print that track plan. 

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

Pat, that's a very familiar feeling when transitioning from small to large scale.  As someone mentioned above, selective compression is your friend.  Build some HO or N gauge structures in the background to force a sense of depth.  Another tip is to use the old twice (or thrice) around to give more running time between destinations.  ie, you may go past the same point twice enroute to your destination, but the whole hobby relies upon imagination and fantasy.  Even on huge HO/N layouts with several scale miles of track, one still has to use their imagination - they are traversing only a few miles, not the tens or hundreds of miles as fantasized.  As I'm moving back into the hobby (at 56 years), many of the "traditions" are going by the wayside - eg, I might weather an old rust bucket hopper car, but there's no way I'm griming up those beautiful passenger cars - the broad expanses of painted or aluminum sides are longing to be seen and admired! <g>

N stands for nearsighted and neurotic.

Alan

I had a "O" Christmas layout (a raised 6x3 1/2) for 19 years before I built a small year 'round layout. This would be a good way to "get your feet wet" with "O". I learned a lot of the basics by building the Christmas layout...which will be 26 years in operation this year.

I always thought it stood for Not big enough
.

When planning staging, don't forget about the 3rd dimension! Even in a small space such as this, you can make use of a lower level if you don't mind the added complexity. It may take a pretty good grade to get down there, but grades are often "compressed" in O. A Lionel trestle set gives you a 5% grade, for example.

Bigger is better in my opinion. I would go G if I had the room. (and MORE $) 0 IS great!

Thanks Nick...point taken and I'm keyboard/paper doodling some Phase 2 possibilities for both hidden, and lower level staging...a veritable 'layout behind and underneath the layout' and much of the trackage out of sight. 3rd dimension will also come into play with scenicing...me being a professional Horticulturist/Natural Resource manager.This would be greatly enhance operations since my main focal point scene, on this small layout,  is a prototype railfan spot just watching the trains come by to work various destinations on the branches. I'm finding this design and planning process MUCH more exciting than I ever did in N scale...with emphasis being on the trains and railroad first.

Thanks everyone!!

I have run the gambit of scales. My first electric train was a Lionel starter set. But I wanted a diesel loco and a Lionel unit at the time was too costly for my parents. (1961) So I got a MARX HO set with a F unit. That worked unit 1968 when I got a Revell N scale set for Christmas. My folks thought I could build a layout in my room with the smaller scale. That worked well unit the mid 1970's when the chain store Woolco would have a twice a year AHM train sale. Here were 2-8-8-2, Cab Forwards and Big Boys for under $25!! Locos I could not get in N or were MUCH more than the HO versions. So I jumped to HO for the variety and price....as well as running better than N at the time. That was good until fellow board member Sean showed me his new MTH N&W J 611. I was shocked how nice it was and the cost $300!!! So I jumped into O. 

So I have had them all. O does work the best as I age. And they way they run without much hassle or track cleaning is a big plus.  The size of O is also a big draw for me now....not just handling them but the heft and the way they look as they roll down the track....more realistic. And the one thing I hated as a kid, the 3rd rail, is now another plus as I like everything simplified today!!!

Would love to see your track plan. I am shortly going to inherit a *x19' space and am wondering how to make best use of it...

with o gauge you do not have to say where's the beef-i would need a german shepard in 6 months with n gauge at my age.

Yeah.  Don't think too much.

Pete

It seems that a lot of people here have gone through the same progression that I did: Lionel first, then cheap HO, then quality HO, then N and finally back to Lionel.

There are logical reason, of course.  Keeping the track impeccably clean got to be a pain.  So did keeping N scale locomotives running smoothly.  And having to work on details with a magnifier got old very fast.

Eventually, I got my original Lionel out of storage for display.  Then I started adding to it, one piece at a time.  And finally, it began to dawn on me that what I really wanted was to recapture the nonscale fun I'd had with the trains in the first place.  So I became a collector and operator of postwar Lionel, and the FasTrack layout doesn't take up any more precious room than the HO and N did (wish I had as much available train space as some of you guys here).

A lot of the new Lionel freight and passenger cars look and run just great with vintage motive power (the 027 NYC and PRR streamlined cars look particularly good behind a 2046 and GG1, respectively), but I am 100% e-unit, non-electronic locomotives.  I have 2-rail O-scale trains for those times when the Scale bug bites me.

At the same time, American Flyer has a strange attraction…

Happy belated Birthday, Pat and welcome to the Dark Side.  
Like so many others here, I came over from N gauge for the size and personal preference for the 'atmosphere' of lights, sounds and ozone.  I unexpectedly found all sorts of other advantages - including this particular community and my original favorite: ease of wiring  a return loop. Your layout plan looks neat.

5 Stars to you Pete.

After decades of over-wrought over-reaching a-retentive frustration it's time to finally HAVE FUN and not over-intellectualize everything to death.  I have come to the conclusion that my mental desire for prototype-rigidity are the result of shutting down the imaginative and interpretive processes...applying the daily grind to my hobby.  Life is stressful enough I didn't realize I was extending it to my "relaxation", which I look to as releases and escapes. I've done the same thing to my other past time as an amateur astronomer, via choice of classic optical systems ('dinosaurs" in todays optical market but more folks see the light) and approach to studying the heavens.

Now it's time to tackle trains.

My first train recollections as a kid were of a 3-rail tubular from Dad, Lionel?, steamer carpet set oval back in the '60's. I still recall the SMELL of the "electric"...like the recollection of sniffed purple mimeograph ink in school etched in my brain. Stimulating the senses...a true sensory stamp that lasts a lifetime. It's time to rediscover, relive,  or better to return my roots.  To go back home. A simpler time. Live simply. Love simply.  Eat simply. That said I'd love to have a purple mineograph ink car freshner or Yankee Candle for the house.  

A previous large, prototype-based N scale around the room layout (unfinished) featured Micro Engineering code 55 flex track and ME skeleton turnouts...circa ~1986 when I was young, energetic and the prototype thang was newish. Think I got a train to run the entire mainline half a dozen times before we moved and away it went. No fun.

I still own a nice set of Micro Trains N narrow gauge cars and prepped for a mini-thing at one time (what was I thinking??!!).  No fun.

My favorite modeling publications is Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette. My attraction to this publication, I think, has more to do with the scenic aesthetics and atmosphere and working with large structure models.

I never seem to do anything by the "mainstream", which will likely include O gauge, but swerve off course on my own personal niche and branch line. And finally I seem to have something do-able, focusing on TRAINS and not wasting time building mini cities and towns...and reliving my younger days.

The last 6+ months immersion resulted in new publication stacks including: Classic Toy Trains; O Scale Trains; O Gauge Railroading as well as 6 Classic Toys Trains mini books...stacked alongside NG & SG and Model Railroader.  Smaller long term stacks include nichy NARROW GAUGE & INDUSTRIAL RAILWAY MODELLING, Maine 2 Foot Quarterly, Narrow Gauge Down Under, Light Iron Digest, Railway Modeller and Continental Modeller.  

The fact that I've never accumulated the numerous N scale publications is telling...and prophetic.

Friday is payday and this weekend I'm off to Just Trains in Delaware since I promised my daughter an O gauge set for the holidays, that will morph into the layout in the small train room.

For once, I'm feeling "at one" with my trains. And everyone from this Forum has been a huge help.

That said I'd love to have a purple mineograph ink car freshner or Yankee Candle for the house.  

hahahha  me too!