Need help between O gauge tubular and new FasTrack

HI There !

First , Thanks For serving Our Country 

Second ,  The Lionel 027 & hi-rail track is good , but Lionel is trying to discontinue that track .

third , That Lionel fast track is good but not superior  , but good !    Like everything else coming from china , hit or miss . 

Have fun with your train ! 

Yes, thank you for your service.

While my biggest interest is in G scale, I would say that if you are planning an indoor layout, O scale Lionel, MTH, etc offers more in the way of accessories.  These can add "play value" for your son.  

As for what type of track to use, it depends on how you want to build your layout.  I don't have any experience with Fastrack or the MTH version.  I once had a high rail layout where I used Gargraves, but it limited me to more scale operation, thus Lionel accessories that needed operating track sections were a bit of a pain to install into the Gargraves track.  

My last and greatest Lionel layout used tubular O gauge track.  That was twenty five years ago.  I was able to cut track to fit in those odd places and fitting all of the operating track sections was a no-brainer.   I cut pieces of wood to match the O gauge track ties in size, then sprayed them black.  I was very pleased with the look I achieved doing this and making changes to the track, which is definitely going to happen for you as you will learn, was easy.  

All of that said, there are some top notch G scale indoor layouts.  What I've learned in the G scale world, is that the smaller type locos and rolling stock look more at home, especially on an indoor layout.  I've also learned that LGB trains are two or three notches above everything else, with perhaps the exception of Marlin one gauge trains.  If you go the Marlin route be prepared to spend big bucks.  

In the end it is still up to you to decide which scale to go with.  The above are just some of my thoughts.

Thanks for your service!

If you're on a budget, I'd go with tubular.  It can be found a lot cheaper than Fastrack, can be made to look more realistic if that's what you want, and it's pretty much bulletproof.  Fastrack's main advantage, in my opinion, is the switches.  They're the smoothest I've seen in O gauge, but they're not cheap.  

Tubular is also significantly quieter, if that matters to you.

The cost for Fastrack will quickly eat up your wallet! Switches are around $100.00 and separate pieces of track are around $5.00 a section even for the 1.5 inch piece of track. Performance of Fastrack is not that good, some say it stinks for the money you spend. Another downside to Fastrack is the loud noise when a train is running on it. I tried Fastrack and quickly unloaded all the Fastrack I had at a train show for an MTH engine I wanted, the guy was willing to trade.

Tubular track is much better and you can cut sections and just add track pins. I never had any problems with tubular track except for the new Lionel switches.

I have gone over to Ross Custom switches, a much better switch then most other brands. I am using Gargraves track and Ross switches.

Lee Fritz

Thanks for the info guys and thanks for acknowledging my service. So to me it sounds like you both prefer the original track or think it will do fine? I am on a budget so thats why I am leaning towards O instead of G.  A guy I know runs G scale and has it outdoors and prefers it for its safety and says since its DC it will be safer than the AC O gauge which he could be right since the cars arc when they become derailed and hit the center rail but if they were that dangerous for kids they would have stopped making them that way along time ago haha. I like the looks of the FasTrack but I am sure I could have a lot more old track for way less that the new stuff but the new stuff did look nice when i seen it.

Thanks Mike, I did not know that the tubular track was quieter than the new track. I figured it would be the other way around. Also I would like to see how everyone made their track look realistic. I also was not expecting anyone to say that the new track was bad, from everything I read everyone said it worked great and the fact that it had the base to it was even more enticing lol.

As a fellow vet I will give you my take on both. ( let me warn you thou I'am not a fan of fastrack) 

The pluses of fast track easy to put together and make a layout. ( I keep some for when I need a quick layout. 

The negatives that I know. 

1 Forget getting magna traction engines to have good pulling power as the track is not steel. 

2 More noisy as stated above. 

3 Switches will cost you a arm and a leg. I use O gauge track or Gargraves. Ross switches are on the expensive side also but there top quality. 

If you go with O gauge you can get the old O22 switches for less than $50 each a lot of the time about $25. If you go with O-27 even cheaper. 

Thank You for your service.

I went all in with Fast Track eventually went back to O 27. Noise and the width of the fast track base became issues for my limit space. I have room for 54" 42" and 27" curves  on my footprint.

Many of the forum sponsors still stock track.

There are many topics on O and O 27 track / layouts on the forum.

Bill

I am using 027 track and Gargraves switches, just put in adapter pins and I can use the switches with 027 track. Gargraves makes many track curve sizes; from 032 up to 0130.

A note about Fastrack; it gets dirty very quick and is lousy for electrical connections. This is my experience with Fastrack.

Lee Fritz

Your welcome Bill. And please help me clarify the difference between O and O27? I read in the instruction manual (yes the manual and paperwork are with the set haha) that I believe it said O27 track. Also I was hoping for everyone to say yes go with the new track but if you went all in Bill on the FasTrack and then went back to O27 that must say something. Also I seen the switches were expensive on the new stuff. I don't need to break the bank account just yet lol. However I am great full to have a nice O gauge train shop in the town I live in and most of the cars that were old but new still in the original boxes were going for like $20 a car. Sorry to get off topic there.

I did a search of topics and found this..

There is a wealth of information on this forum.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/o27-verses-0-gauge

Sorry but as far as LGB being a notch or two above any other manufacturer that's nonsense. LGB uses plastic drive gears that will wear out...esp. the Mikado as that thing was/ is plagued with drivetrain problems..and with LGB being out of business where you gonna get parts?

MTH One-Gauge...all metal gears and not some screwy 1:27 LGB scale. 

USA Trains Ultimate Series Hudson, Big Boy, Docksider, GG1 and soon to be announced UP FEF...All die-cast metal with all metal drive gears and stainless steel tires & wheels...just try to wear one of those locos out.

Accucraft/ AML brass locos with all metal drivetrains and stainless wheels/ tires...electric or live steam...try and wear one out.   

This thread has some examples of what you can do with tubular track:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...o-guage-tubular-rail

I like fastrack for carpet running: It stays together much better than old-style tubular, the base keeps grease and oil from the engine off of the carpet, and the carpet deadens the sound of the track.

If you are building on a train table, though, you can do a lot with tubular for a lot less money. If you need a custom length, you can just cut it. You can screw it down so it won't move. Drips on the table are no big deal. On a table, the hollow underside of the fastrack is like a drum, amplifying the train noise; by comparison, the tubular is quiet. You can also detail tubular with extra ties and ballast, to help close the realism gap between it and fastrack. The only real disadvantage with tubular on the table top is that there are not as many options when it comes to switches -- though many people make up for that by using switches from Gargraves or Ross, with adapter pins.

IraqvetUSMC posted:

Thanks for the info guys and thanks for acknowledging my service. So to me it sounds like you both prefer the original track or think it will do fine? I am on a budget so thats why I am leaning towards O instead of G.  A guy I know runs G scale and has it outdoors and prefers it for its safety and says since its DC it will be safer than the AC O gauge which he could be right since the cars arc when they become derailed and hit the center rail but if they were that dangerous for kids they would have stopped making them that way along time ago haha. I like the looks of the FasTrack but I am sure I could have a lot more old track for way less that the new stuff but the new stuff did look nice when i seen it.

AC verse DC as for safety there is no real issue with either one. The use of proper circuit breakers or fuses will help with shorts. If the AC trains are arcing at a switch or derailing you may need to clean both the track and the wheelsets on the engines and cars. Another thing to do with modern(AC powered) trains is to add a TVS(transient voltage suppressor) to the output side of an older transformer like a post war transformer, most newer transformers don't need that as they usually have something for that installed already.

DC is used for small motor control because it can control a small motor better. AC is better for large motor control.

Lee Fritz

So it sounds like the FasTrack is nice for running on the floor or carpet due to a more stable base to work with but as far as a table layout it takes up more space, is a lot louder than tubular and is not able to fasten to a table as far as I can tell. I don't plan on getting to technical right now with switches so I may have to get some cheap manual ones for now. Lee, actually my train often arcs or derails at the 1 manual switch that I have in the set and I have the original post war transformer that came with the set that I am using, it does has the built in circuit breaker but is quite the real gem. So a couple questions from here. I would like to go with a newer transformer and track lock on. What should I go with to get away from the original one and also what do you recommend or I should say how is the right way to go about cleaning the wheels on the engine and cars and cleaning the track? I am assuming a scotch brite pad?  

Thanks

Bill. After reading the article if I read it correctly the difference is the height of the track ties, the track is a little heavier itself and the O27 is the radius of the curve making the curves tighter than the standard smallest curve in the O is O31. They had mixed reviews due to train size. I am assuming if I were to go with all O27 that I could possibly be limited to the Engine I ran as a bigger engine would more likely derail going around the tight curve. On the good side the O27 would allow for tighter curves meaning less space used on a table for a curve. So with that being said should I go with original O instead so I wouldn't be limited on train size or should I just stick with O27 since I already have a small amount?

Thanks

Casey Jones2 posted:

Sorry but as far as LGB being a notch or two above any other manufacturer that's nonsense. LGB uses plastic drive gears that will wear out...esp. the Mikado as that thing was/ is plagued with drivetrain problems..and with LGB being out of business where you gonna get parts?

MTH One-Gauge...all metal gears and not some screwy 1:27 LGB scale. 

USA Trains Ultimate Series Hudson, Big Boy, Docksider, GG1 and soon to be announced UP FEF...All die-cast metal with all metal drive gears and stainless steel tires & wheels...just try to wear one of those locos out.

Accucraft/ AML brass locos with all metal drivetrains and stainless wheels/ tires...electric or live steam...try and wear one out.   

When I started out with large scale twenty five years ago, I purchased an Aristocraft starter set as my first foray into large scale trains.  At that time I was still operating indoors.  My next purchase was an Aristocraft set of FAs and some rolling stock.  Still operating in the basement the little 0-4-0 ran rather well.  However the FAs did not run so smoothly.  I was told they needed to be run for awhile to loosen up the drive train.  Not long after I started to build a garden railway.  The 0-4-0 ran okay but had trouble on grades.  The FAs did not improve, despite hours of run time.  

At the same time that I was getting into large scale I purchased a couple of Bachmann Big Haulers.  They were pathetic indoors and worse outside.  

The next year I looked into LGB, which initially was led to believe, by a well known train dealer in the Philadelphia area, was too expensive and not worth the extra expense.  I purchased a starter set which consisted of an Americanized Stainz and two passenger cars.  It ran like a charm in my garden railway.  This prompted me to purchase the Lake George & Boulder Mogul.  I thought I died and went to heaven.  I ran it so much that LGB took it and replaced the entire drive train and side rods at no cost to me.    

The Aristocraft stuff was sold to gain funds for more LGB purchases.  USA Trains had not started producing locomotives yet, only their work train cars were in the stores.  I cannot recall when MTH started making large scale trains.  So I have little experience with these manufacturers other than a 44 ton diesel I purchased used a couple years ago.  A known problem with USA trains diesels are the drive axles.  The design leaves them vulnerable to failure.  I had to buy four new axles from USA Trains to get the 44 ton loco to run.  

The other issue with USA and MTH are the fine detail parts that are prone to breakage, particularly in a garden setting.  I have a few of the USA Trains reefers that have lost foot holds and brahmans platforms.  I will say that they have some beautiful graphics.

LGB is not out of business, as you point out, they have been purchased by Marklin.  Parts are readily available for all LGB trains.  Not only from Marklin but from another source that slips my mind at the moment.  

You are correct in stating that the LGB Mikados had drive train issues, but these were resolved and LGB repaired any of the originals while they were still owned by Lehmann.  I cannot say what Marklin is doing or has done for those people whose Mikados failed after LGB went belly up.

rtraincollector posted:

As a fellow vet I will give you my take on both. ( let me warn you thou I'am not a fan of fastrack) 

The pluses of fast track easy to put together and make a layout. ( I keep some for when I need a quick layout. 

The negatives that I know. 

1 Forget getting magna traction engines to have good pulling power as the track is not steel. 

2 More noisy as stated above. 

3 Switches will cost you a arm and a leg. I use O gauge track or Gargraves. Ross switches are on the expensive side also but there top quality. 

If you go with O gauge you can get the old O22 switches for less than $50 each a lot of the time about $25. If you go with O-27 even cheaper. 

Fastrack is stainless, but it is also magnetic. It is probably 400 series. Magne-traction works just fine. I agree with everything else especially the price of remote switches!

jth877 posted:

rtraincollector posted:

As a fellow vet I will give you my take on both. ( let me warn you thou I'am not a fan of fastrack) 

The pluses of fast track easy to put together and make a layout. ( I keep some for when I need a quick layout. 

The negatives that I know. 

1 Forget getting magna traction engines to have good pulling power as the track is not steel. 

2 More noisy as stated above. 

3 Switches will cost you a arm and a leg. I use O gauge track or Gargraves. Ross switches are on the expensive side also but there top quality. 

If you go with O gauge you can get the old O22 switches for less than $50 each a lot of the time about $25. If you go with O-27 even cheaper. 

Fastrack is stainless, but it is also magnetic. It is probably 400 series. Magne-traction works just fine. I agree with everything else especially the price of remote switches!

I never knew that Fastrack came in Stainless steel! It has tarnished on me so bad & had super lousy electrical connections that I just had to unload it. FYI; I had a 3 ft by 9 ft layout of Fastrack on the carpet on the floor, so noise wasn't too bad. Also had to supply 2 electrical supplies to the track as my trolley lost power about half way around the track, I was using an MTH Z-1000 transformer for power.

Lee Fritz

Yes, I have had bad electrical connections as well running on carpet. It's nice for a temporary Christmas layout but I think the flexing of the track eventually causes electrical continuity problems. It does seem to build up a blackish residue as well. This year I'm putting the Christmas layout on MDF, noise be ****ed. 

So would everyone here stick with the O27 vs the standard O? Also what is an older Lionel transformer that I could get off line that is fairly cheap but better than the 60W transformer that came with the set in 1966? Also whats the best way to clean the Lionel track and manual switches?

IraqvetUSMC posted:

So would everyone here stick with the O27 vs the standard O? Also what is an older Lionel transformer that I could get off line that is fairly cheap but better than the 60W transformer that came with the set in 1966? Also whats the best way to clean the Lionel track and manual switches?

I am using 027 and O gauge tubular but in different areas. The 027 track has less weight then O gauge tubular so I am using it for an around the ceiling track. However O gauge tubular has more curve sizes then 027 does.

I would be careful when buying a transformer off line if it is used as you have not seen it. Go to a train show or hobby shop and buy a used transformer because you can at least see it first.

I use rubbing alcohol for track cleaning. Never use Simple Green! It will eat up your track.

Lee Fritz

Thanks for the info on the transformers. I was also thinking rubbing alcohol for the tracks and should i also use a scotch brite pad on the tracks? and what do you use on the train wheels themselves? So should I ditch the O27 track that I have a start over with O gauge for more curve options? Could the O27 limit the trains that I use on the tracks in the long run?

Thanks

IraqvetUSMC posted:

Bill. After reading the article if I read it correctly the difference is the height of the track ties, the track is a little heavier itself and the O27 is the radius of the curve making the curves tighter than the standard smallest curve in the O is O31. They had mixed reviews due to train size. I am assuming if I were to go with all O27 that I could possibly be limited to the Engine I ran as a bigger engine would more likely derail going around the tight curve. On the good side the O27 would allow for tighter curves meaning less space used on a table for a curve. So with that being said should I go with original O instead so I wouldn't be limited on train size or should I just stick with O27 since I already have a small amount?

Thanks

Chief differences between "O-27" and "O":

--0-27 track is 7/16" from floor to railhead. 'O' track is 11/16" from floor to railhead.

--0-27 track is (traditionally) made of a lighter-gauge sheet metal than 'O' But this isn't a glaring issue if you're not placing the track where it's going to be stepped on. O-27 track made by K-Line (a now-defunct competitor of Lionel from 1975-2005) can still be found on the market and is made of the same thickness sheet metal as 'O'

--For a long time, O-27 track could only be had with a circle diameter of 27" (hence the name), and "O" track was only available with a circle diameter of 31", or less commonly 72". 

--With the proliferation of more scale-sized models since the 1980's, 0-27-profile track is also available in curve diameters of 42" and 54" (K-line made o-27 curves in 72" diameter in addition to the other sizes). O-27 switches are currently only available matching 27" and 42" curves.

--Some people like the lighter track because the smaller rails make the trains look bigger.

--Similarly, 'O' profile track is made in 31", 42", 54" and 72" diameter curves. Like 0-27, switches for this track are not yet available with a 54" curve. 

--As you've guessed, the smaller the curves on your eventual layout, the more restricted the variety of locomotives and rolling stock you can run. Depending on your present and/or future tastes, this may or may not be an issue.

--GarGraves track is made to the same height as O-27, and adapter pins are available to connect the two track brands if you want to make use of a wider assortment of switches while staying with tubular-style track. Same goes for Ross Custom Switches, but being on a budget, these may be a tad spendy (although their quality is largely unquestioned)

---PCJ

Thanks Rail. So at this point it would be safe to say that I am less limited on the engines & rolling stock if I were to start from scratch and go with standard O gauge? You said that K-Line did make O27 in different curves which would allow me to run larger engines on O27 track I assume? I have not checked prices but being on a budget and just getting my feet wet I think I will stay away from the more expensive stuff. So would someone in my shoes just search eBay and craigslist for O27 track since I already have it with different curve sizes or would I be able to come by standard O easier? Sorry for all the questions just looking for the more economical route with ease or purchase and price.

Ok so after more research on track I see Lionel made a Super O track that looks pretty realistic and can be bought on Ebay for a fairly good price. Is their any downside to Super O or any reason I should steer clear of that? It looks pretty cool to me.

The Super O curves & switches are only available in 18" radius(O-36).

Other than that, there has been a cult following of the track system and a good body of work published online for rebending the track sections to any desired radius. If you can work with the switches, it is much cheaper, and I think better looking, than FasTrack.

The only thing with super O is you need whats called buzz bars. They get clipped between the two pieces on the middle rail. There also know to lift up and either get stuck in the engine wheels or fall out somewhere and it can be a little frustrating. Also most on the bay don't include them and they average between $1 and $1.25 each. They use to be blamed for cutting the pick-up wheel in two but that isn't really true. 

jth877 posted:

rtraincollector posted:

As a fellow vet I will give you my take on both. ( let me warn you thou I'am not a fan of fastrack) 

The pluses of fast track easy to put together and make a layout. ( I keep some for when I need a quick layout. 

The negatives that I know. 

1 Forget getting magna traction engines to have good pulling power as the track is not steel. 

2 More noisy as stated above. 

3 Switches will cost you a arm and a leg. I use O gauge track or Gargraves. Ross switches are on the expensive side also but there top quality. 

If you go with O gauge you can get the old O22 switches for less than $50 each a lot of the time about $25. If you go with O-27 even cheaper. 

Fastrack is stainless, but it is also magnetic. It is probably 400 series. Magne-traction works just fine. I agree with everything else especially the price of remote switches!

Funny everyone I have talked to says it not good for magna- traction engines. That they do not hold as well as O gauge track. 

Bill yes they do mine does very well on lionel fastrak . I have SD9 and S4 with that and they stick well. I even have trouble getting off track and getting trucks lined up on rail.  

Thanks Bill & Rob. I just wish that track wasn't 50 years old lol. I am a sure track that old will need a good cleaning but will the plastic ties still be ok or has anyone experienced the plastic being brittle?

Hi Vince-

You can do both! Not sure if someone has already recommended this or not, but Lionel makes a piece of track called a Transition piece. One side connects to old tubular track, and the other side connects to Fastrack. As you expand your layout, you can use this one piece of track to keep one part of your layout, tubular track, and another, Fastrack-

CLICK FORTransition Piece (12040) (Lionel FASTRACK)

The above is a link to it on our website. Let us know if you have any questions!

Thanks-

MARIO'S TRAINS - (forum sponsor)

www.mariostrains.com

540 868 0025

The down side to Super O track is that it is limited to what has been made by Lionel during the late 1950's and early 60's. Also there is one curve size. Some people claim that Super O track is a pain to work with. Not widely available any more.

I would go with 027 track if you starting out, it has at least 2 different curve sizes; 027 & 042 that are very easy to purchase at most online vendors.

With used track be careful!! You might get what somebody wants to unload on an unsuspecting person. I would buy new 027 track and or Gargraves switches. The reason I like Gargraves switches & Ross Custom switches is because the switch motor is located on the side of the switch below track level and won't get in the way of any of your train cars or engines. Lionel switches in 027 & O gauge tubular have switch motors near the track ares so this limits you to what go though the switch.

Lee Fritz

Thanks Lee. I did see new Lionel O27 on ebay for sale for like $2.29 a section which isn't to bad. And at that price is probably better than buying someone elses used track that you may have to spend time cleaning and restoring which I don't have time for. Or see the used track in person at a train show or train shop. I really wish Lionel would have stuck with the Super O design, I still think this tubular track looks like crap compared to my 2 rail track in my LGB G gauge starter set. But I have decided to go with O due to its smaller size and cheaper prices. The new Fastrack is expensive and really doesn't impress me as far as looks compared to the old Super O. To bad they did make a plastic ties that snap on to the tracks as one assembly.

Mario. I do not own any FasTrack. I have an original Postwar set from the 60's with O27 track and I do not plan on mixing track as that looks weird haha. But thank you for the info on the transition pieces. I did not know they made them.

IraqvetUSMC posted:

Thanks Lee. I did see new Lionel O27 on ebay for sale for like $2.29 a section which isn't to bad. And at that price is probably better than buying someone elses used track that you may have to spend time cleaning and restoring which I don't have time for. Or see the used track in person at a train show or train shop. I really wish Lionel would have stuck with the Super O design, I still think this tubular track looks like crap compared to my 2 rail track in my LGB G gauge starter set. But I have decided to go with O due to its smaller size and cheaper prices. The new Fastrack is expensive and really doesn't impress me as far as looks compared to the old Super O. To bad they did make a plastic ties that snap on to the tracks as one assembly.

Mario. I do not own any FasTrack. I have an original Postwar set from the 60's with O27 track and I do not plan on mixing track as that looks weird haha. But thank you for the info on the transition pieces. I did not know they made them.

Hi Vince,

You can get good used 027 track for less than $1/piece from TinMan3Rail.com.  He is a forum sponsor.

Mark

Thanks Mark.  Ugh why can't Lionel just build track that looks like Super O, something realistic lol. But I think I will stick with O27 and just go with larger curves to accommodate any larger engines in the future.

I don't see why you need new O-27. Why spend the extra money? If you buy a box of used O-27 at a buck apiece and half of it is bad--not likely to happen--you have still saved money, versus buying new at $2.29 per. Personally, I do not like the steel they use in the new (i.e., Chinese) O-27 track.

But MOST IMPORTANTLY:

This is your first layout. Don't overthink it! Get a sheet of plywood, and roll of that old-fashioned grass paper, and a bunch of cheap track and a few extra lock-ons, and just start playing around! In year or two when you have more experience and know what you like, you can plan another one and make it perfect. For now just have some fun and don't let us kill your new hobby with analysis paralysis!

Hahaha thanks Nick. I am OCD in the overthinking way. But your right about just making something with the O27 for now and I checked out Tinman3rail and he looks like the route to go for additional good used track. Well I see Atlas makes the track I am looking for but with a higher price tag. Maybe I will eventually switch to that track one day haha. For now who makes the best ties to use under the O27?