Needle Applicator Versus Eyedropper And Funnel For Adding Smoke Fluid To Fan Driven Units?

Yes i would use needle type and the funnel that lionel puts in with there engines. It makes it alot easier to add right amount of drops so not overfill smoke unit and not make a mess. 

The needle applicator prevents the drops of smoke fluid from hanging up at the mouth of the smoke unit and forming a meniscus, which will block the exit of smoke. The meniscus is why you blow into the stack when a locomotive isn't smoking; the puff of air clears the meniscus and you get a big billow of smoke. The needle applicator works great if you are confident that you can control the amount of fluid injected.

The needle does the same thing as the long, skinny neck on the funnel that comes with some Legacy locomotives. Personally I prefer the little funnel and an eyedropper, and the next time I order Lionel parts I am going to get a couple of extra funnels to make sure I have one at hand any time I want it. 

Does the funnel actually penetrate the batting?

Mike clearfly states that the needle point applicator penetrates the batting and injects fluid into it.

My big Boy manual speaks of adding drops.If I use a needle point do I void the warranty?

Bob C.

Personally I use the funnel and an eyedropper with good results.

When you use the needle how do you know how much you're putting in? I'm used to the dropper where I can see how full the tube is. 

Prefer the eyedropper, I never failed me yet and you can see how much smoke fluid is going in.

Lionel ships these Disposable Plastic Graduated Dropper Pipette with new engines which are widely used for feeding birds, etc. I got on the bay and bought a bag of 100 or some such in the 1ml size. Since Mike advises to fill the dropper to about 2/3 of the first line on the 3ml dropper they supply, I figured a 1ml dropper would be perfect. And the 1ml pipette has a longer skinny tip on it that fits right down into most of the smoke fill openings. I think the 100 or so cost me less than $5 with free shipping.

They are what I use.

So, why not take a cue from the medical profession?...drawing a specific amount into a hypodermic?

This is the gizmo we (LHS) sell for a variety of applications:

Fluid Applicator Link

....glue, smoke fluid, paint, etc...and it works well because you can pre-establish how much you want to apply (using the specific fluid/material), make a mark on the body of the applicator indicating that amount, and be fairly repeatable in your subsequent applications.

We sell these in our RC department....the airplane guys use them a lot....gluing, fueling, etc..  However, in the Trains dept. we've convinced many folks to use them for applying ballast glue, adding smoke fluid, gluing large seams for scenery and building projects, etc., etc., etc..  Frankly, I have no idea why these aren't marketed through Woodland Scenics and other scenery sources. 

They're cheap.  And they're re-usable....as long as you thoroughly clean them after each use.....especially for adhesives and paints.  And there's no sharp needle, as with a medical device!!

NOTE:  For MANY MANY reasons, I do NOT advocate the use of medical hypodermics for this application, even though the principles of measured fluid application are the same.

Of course, a strong focused light above the smoke application port as you use a more traditional needle-tipped bottle applicator should make observing/counting the drops as you insert them less troublesome.  I'm sure some enterprising forumite could come up with a (portable) device/gizmo that provides such focused light, the needle-bottle, and even a simple magnifier lens to make this job a cinch.  Yes?  No?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

KD

I use an eye dropper that comes with the bottle and a small funnel from Lionel then blow down the stack.  For some diesels I use the needle applicator. I just give it a short squirt if I can't see the drops. Usually that is fine.  I would rather have to add more than overdoing it. 

When you use the needle how do you know how much you're putting in? I'm used to the dropper where I can see how full the tube is. 

We suggest a simple rule for those using our fine point precision dispensers:  Use the eye dropper supplied with the smoke fluid to fill the needle point dispenser. Count the drops so you know how much is in the dispenser. Once you establish the correct amount, take a permanent marker and make a mark on the dispenser...that way you will know the proper amount for each filling. Then, simply use the needle point to fill the smoke unit with the proper amount. This method has never failed. No spills, no mess, no overfills!  Hope this helps.

All the best,

Mega-Steam

www.megasteam.com

"World's Finest Smoke Fluid!"

I use a squirt bottle with a needle tip applicator as seen in the Lionel product demonstration videos. It goes directly into the smoke units of my LEGACY and ProtoSound 2 & 3 diesels. I'm not able to inject smoke fluid directly into the reservoirs of my Atlas diesels since there is a funnel that channels the fluid forward into the fiberglass wadding in the bowl but they still work fine. I just give one quick squeeze of the bottle every time and never had an issue.

There is absolutely no way I'm going to count 15-20 drops of smoke fluid each time I refill. First of all, the pipettes will not go through the exhaust stack grilles. Secondly, the fluid isn't going directly into the smoke unit chamber. Some of it accumulates on the funnel and grille so you're actually putting in less than you think. I guess if you've overfilled smoke units in the past and damaged the electronics inside the engine then you might employ this method of counting drops.

In reality, it's not that hard to determine how much smoke fluid to use or how to apply it.

The reason I don't like the needle-point filler is that I don't know how much fluid is going in.  If they solved that problem, it would be very useful.

I use leftover baby medicine syringes from when my kids were little, they have measurements on them so you always know how much your adding. Found at pharmacies( of course), online, craftstores, etc.

This style with an add on plastic tip found at a craft store for smoke fluid:

This larger one for Red n' Tacky in the gearboxes:

On a side note, be sure the smoke unit is completely cool before adding fluid with the especially cheap pipette that Lionel includes. It will melt right onto the resistor.......don't ask me how I know.

One way would be to use eyedropper to your measured amount then pull plunger out of

 needle applicators ones that have mm marked on the tube and put the fluid in their

to get the measurement.

After first time just use needle (hypo) knowing how much to fill sucking up the fluid out of the container itself.

They come in all different needle lengths and tube sizes, i use them for making e-liquid.

I use the needle applicator from JT Mega Steam. Works great for me. No mess.

While I'm relatively comfortable filling smoke units in general, the "how much" question always got me thinking.

"X" drops is a very different quantity depending on whether you use the small tube of fluid that might have come with your engine vs an eye dropper like the MegaSteam bottles come with.  It might be different again for a syringe or the pipette Lionel is supplying with some engines.

I like the MegaSteam needle dispenser, before that I had some (non-medical, not sharp) syringes I bought from a tool supplier at a train meet.  I trimmed the length on one of those with a cutting wheel to make it more manageable.

The needle point filler (again, not medical) is the only way to go for diesels IMHO.  None of the others will let you get past the grate on most exhaust ports without spilling all over the shell.

-Dave

With the funnel and eyedropper, I can add 10-15 drops of fluid, then empty the remaining into the bottle. I then use the eyedropper to BLOW air into the funnel to clear any bubbles that may have formed. 

Really NOT a big deal and works for me!

Better NOT to over-think this issue. 

MOST times, LESS is MORE! 

Just like folks over-cleaning track or over-thinking lubrication - track cleaning is overrated and many people tend to over-lubricate! 

I use the pipette that is supplied with some of the Lionel Legacy engines, and the little funnel.  Has the graduations for how many drops you need.  Works fine for me.  Also when empty just give a few dry squirts of air and clears out any bubble that formed.  This way my flavor saver, aka mustache, doesn't get the smokey taste.

Sounds like a great approach. Thanks! You should put this in your Tips and Tricks section of the web site.

I think that I will use the method described in the last post above---sounds good. i will also try to penetrate the batting as Mike R suggested Lionel Service does in the Smoke 101 video of a few years back.

Bob C.