NEW Lionel BRASS Challenger WON'T RUN (out of the Box)!

@BlueFeather posted:

I've mentioned before that I am currently 0-for-2 with brand new Legacy steam.  Both had the Single Blink Of Death right out of the box.  I immediately sent both to Lionel and after one month for one and almost three for the other I received back a working unit.

I am rolling the dice again and have a Vision Line Big Boy on order from a reputable, high volume seller.  If it arrives DOA, I'm sending it back to the retailer for an immediate exchange.  I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would not immediately return or RMA a brand new, in warranty DOA item (model train or otherwise).

II can't for the life of me understand why anyone would not immediately return or RMA a brand new, in warranty DOA item (model train or otherwise).

well, that’s your choice, and your opinion, for some, it doesn’t matter the warranty, or who made it, If we can make it better than it was built, and correct manufacturing shortcomings, some of us feel we have the model we want, knowing it’s going to perform on our terms…..I can’t for the life of me understand why some of you keep buying new items when you’re 0 for 2 …..but that’s my opinion,

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

II can't for the life of me understand why anyone would not immediately return or RMA a brand new, in warranty DOA item (model train or otherwise).

well, that’s your choice, and your opinion, for some, it doesn’t matter the warranty, or who made it, If we can make it better than it was built, and correct manufacturing shortcomings, some of us feel we have the model we want, knowing it’s going to perform on our terms…..I can’t for the life of me understand why some of you keep buying new items when you’re 0 for 2 …..but that’s my opinion,

Pat

Because many (probably most) of us don't have anywhere near your skills, and / or the experience and tools required to properly diagnose a failed $2,500+ Legacy engine.  And quite frankly, at that price, we shouldn't have to.  I've watched your videos, and your skillset and capabilities represent the extreme minority of most of the people buying these models.

@BlueFeather posted:

Because many (probably most) of us don't have anywhere near your skills, and / or the experience and tools required to properly diagnose a failed $2,500+ Legacy engine.  I've watched your videos, and your skillset and capabilities represent the extreme minority of most of the people buying these models.

I don’t know about “extreme” minority, …..definitely not a majority, but there’s more folks figuring things out with these models than 1, or 2, or 3…….😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I don’t know about “extreme” minority, …..definitely not a majority, but there’s more folks figuring things out with these models than 1, or 2, or 3…….😉

Pat

See, this is where the Internet causes problems where in an in-person discussion would never been an issue.  My original comment certainly wasn't addressing the minority (whatever the percentage is) of Lionel's customers who buy a new engine and immediately start tuning it, thereby voiding the warranty (but you don't care about that of course, which is fine).  If that's your thing (which obviously it is), great!  I'm talking about those of us who spent a bunch of money on a brand new engine, open up the box, put the thing on the track and expect everything to work as advertised and -- nothing.  That's very frustrating and obviously unacceptable, and IMHO way too common for these high-ticket items. 

As an aside -- both of these problems in my case were failed boards.  You can't tune your way out of that -- that's disassembly, sourcing the replacement parts, swapping them, and putting it all back together.  Not a simple job on some of these big articulateds.  Even if I had your skills, why would I want to spend my time and money fixing those problems on a brand new, in-warranty loco?

@BlueFeather posted:

See, this is where the Internet causes problems where in an in-person discussion would never been an issue.  My original comment certainly wasn't addressing the minority (whatever the percentage is) of Lionel's customers who buy a new engine and immediately start tuning it, thereby voiding the warranty (but you don't care about that of course, which is fine).  If that's your thing (which obviously it is), great!  I'm talking about those of us who spent a bunch of money on a brand new engine, open up the box, put the thing on the track and expect everything to work as advertised and -- nothing.  That's very frustrating and obviously unacceptable, and IMHO way too common for these high-ticket items.

As an aside -- both of these problems in my case were failed boards.  You can't tune your way out of that -- that's disassembly, sourcing the replacement parts, swapping them, and putting it all back together.  Not a simple job on some of these big articulateds.  Even if I had your skills, why would I want to spend my time and money fixing those problems on a brand new, in-warranty loco?

Jim, the only argument you’re gonna get out of me is there’s different strokes for different folks, ….absolutely, if you had a failed board, or had to source parts for a brand new locomotive, then yes, that’s just silly, send it back…….

Pat

BlueFeather:   I have a "foot in both camps" here.

I recently took delivery of my new MTH RailKing "Big Boy", and although it was not as expensive as the Lionel Challenger, it still cost me nearly $2,000 to purchase and get it all the way to me here "down-under" in Australia.

I also had troubles right out of the box....would not smoke, and lost an earth connection on the tender end of the wireless drawbar, intermittently stalling the engine.

For me to pack it up and send it half way around the world back to the US for a warranty claim was out of the question for a number of reasons........concern of damage/losing it during the return/round trip, the cost to me to ship back to the States, and when it returns, will it be fixed properly, only for this saga to start all over again.

For this reason I must agree with Pat (harmonyards).

I am no expert when it comes to "fixing" these electronic monsters, but necessity is the mother of invention, and, with the help of Don Lockwood at MTH (via numerous E-mails) and the knowledge I have learnt from this forum (gunrunner john and Vernon) I got "the beast" up and running properly.

If I was living in America I'd be with you, and I most probably would have sent it back, but this is not the case for me. Hence "my foot in both camps".

Peter.....Buco Australia