New garden layout

Something to think about:

A persons enthusiasm for taking on a new project is usually at it's highest point in the beginning. The more convoluted and laborious things get... the more it becomes like a demanding chore. Demanding chores aren't usually enjoyable, and one's initial enthusiasm will generally(naturally) wane some. That's when demanding, convoluted and laborious outweigh the enjoyment derived.

Ongoing grounds maintenance(including special water features with fish...) must be kept up. I suspect O gauge equipment(track, trains, the layout infrastructure...) will need lots of attention.

There's a good chance your equipment will wear faster, too. It wasn't designed for outdoor operations. Especially, running locomotives with exposed idler gears.

Plus, the clock keeps ticking... you aren't getting any younger.

Davy's work ethic and drive is probably an anomaly. He's a rare breed.

Rick

Hi Guys, Joe, like you when I first started into garden railways and ponds etc, I tended to bash on and work it out as I went,couldn't wait to get track down ,couldn't wait to get water in a pond etc etc etc, well many a pond and track plan later,and many a (sometimes very bad)mistake made later I can certainly keep you from making all the mistakes I made. As for your pond , 1st of all beware the pond equipment seller,chances are he will be wantin to sell you a load of stuff that isn't probably totally necessary.Remember his business is making a profit out of you and these guys will sell you every super-duper "absolutely necessary" product they can. As for concrete killing fish, baloney, this is only at the construction stage. Effluent from wet cement WILL kill fish but cured cement won't affect them at all.I've built umpteen ponds using cement in and around the pond. See that wee stream of mine ??,well that is ALL cement and rocks built on top of liner.See any of my fish floating belly up ?  Once your cement/concrete is cured you are in business and it won't affect the fish at all. As for that concrete support you have put in. hate to tell you ,but you didn't need to dig that hole.You CAN build with cement in a pond AND on top of your pond liner. I'd strongly advise that if you want a pond there do it now. Once your pond is in THEN build your railway over it.ALL you need for your pond at this stage is the pond liner and depending on what your pond shape /style is to be then a certain amount of building materials relevant to your individual pond's requirements. Anyway Joe here's my email adress,email me direct and I'll show you how to get it right first time and without heartache wasting money and frustration figuring it out AND without any unsightly pond liner showing anywhere,because as soon as pond liner is visible a pond NEVER EVER looks natural . david.cormack3@btinternet.com However I can't help you avoid digging the big hole required,look on the bright side by the time its dug you'll be a super fit hunk (like me) ha ha ! . As for pond liners ,I've used various but without a doubt the best of the lot are butyl rubber ones,unfortunately they are usually the most expensive too. But they are the strongest and by far the easiest to work with as they are very pliable and mould into the shape of your pond far easier than the glossy plastic types. As for what to put under your liner ,simple.. plenty wet newspaper ,that IS ALL thats required(trust me , never mind what the pond equipment seller tells you you need)  and I'm sure you'll be able to source plenty newspapers from family and friends .Just avoid newspaper with metal staples because the basic rule of thumb when pond building is keep anything sharp away from your liner. When I do big ponds I don't even wear boots when working on top of the liner I always go barefoot (and make sure my toenails are cut !) ha ha.

 Rick does make a valid point though, enthusiasm can wane on a hot day and all you can see is a few hours of digging ahead of you, but at the end if you do things right then there's a great sense of achievement and pleasure in a project when it all comes togetehr. What is an absolute killer is if you put in all the work and find that "aw ****, I've done it wrong,I need to rip it all out and start again."And the reason for the mistake was being too desperate and having used the "I can fix the mistakes later" approach. Listen ,this is the truth. A local builder here who had NEVER done a pond in his life put in a pond for a customer. Charged her the earth and it all went wrong. It was losing water ,pond edge was all wrong,pond liner was exposed etc.,etc.,etc.,eventually he came to me and said Davy could you put this right for me,he showed me pictures of the job, I wouldn't even have attempted to put it right because everything from start to finish had been done wrong.The only way to fix that job was to completely start again. needless to say that customer was irate and rightly so . He had charged her £2500 UK sterling and that was about 15 years ago. I took nothing to do with it. The only way to do ponds is to do it right on take one.   catch you later guys.   DAVY

Hi Guys, back to trains, check out this very atmospheric Loco-yard scene from 1947.http://www.flickr.com/photos/64429304@N04/6396456549/This was the biggest loco terminal in Scotland. Polmadie (pol-madee) ,Rutherglen. It supplied the locomotives for London bound trains out of Glasgow Central station. This is 1947 but the scene remained much the same till the end of steam in 1967. I was born in 1953 and have vivid memories of this place on days such as this when the smog (smoke and fog) was all around . the smoke in the atmosphere was from thousands of industrial and domestic coal fires. But it was absolute magic ,with steam locomotives in abundance. Sadly that whole industrial scene is now gone. I'm glad I didn't miss it,though its been truly sad to watch the declinein my lifetime . Glasgow back then was the 2 nd city of the British empire and had the single biggest concentration of industry outside of London.

North British Locomotive  (NBL) was the biggest locomotive works in the whole of europe and the River Clyde shipbuilders had produced more ships than all the shipyards of Germany,England and the USA combined prior to the first world war.Glasgow was some place in those days. "If it was made,it was made in Glasgow",was what they used to say. You'd hardly know it today.    Happy memories though.     DAVY

More on Polmadie..... this picturehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/6...1887/in/photostream/ was taken a few weeks after the last steam operations.... from about the same spot as the 1947 picture. The old coaling tower was replaced by a more modern one in the 1950s ,only survived till 1967.... how sad eh ?

 ,below is Polmadie today. Modern ,clean,efficient ,smokeless and BORING !

Aye, yesterday's heavy industry, especially railways, definitely provided many interesting/alluring sights.

Iron kite and all, lad, you'd probably be dead or close to it... if Glasgow's sky still looked like that.

One of the things that really struck me about Britain, when I first arrived there, back in 1972, was how dirty the brick buildings looked. I was used to a cleaner/fresher looking environment - the greater Vancouver region.

I can still remember the diesel scent in the air, from lorries and buses etc...

After the 10hr flight, and then being surprised by a soiled looking London, I thought to myself... why the **** did I save my hard earned money(at the time, I was making $2.00hr, working at a gas station), to come here?

A good nights sleep cured that though, because, the next morning, I fell in love with the place. Including, the industrial-ness of the place.

Curious, are or were you a smoker?

Nowadays, most enlightened people are well aware of the significant threats posed by pollution... especially, heavy industrial pollution.

Myself, I'll take clean air... any day.

Rick

Hi Rick, London ??  .... can't stand the place.Still stinks of diesel and fumes especially in hot weather.  Gimme Glasgow any day of the week. 15/20 minutes in any direction from Glasgow city centre and you're into countryside, head West and North and you are into the highlands,lochs and mountains all the way. I wouldn't live in London if you paid me,its my idea of he-l. Ditto for Birmingham and Manchester ,Liverpool etc., not my cuppa tea at all.England our next door neighbour has too many folk,too many buses and cars and urban madness.

No ,when it comes to location ,Glasgow as a city takes a bit of beating all things considered.This view of Loch Lomond is literally about 20 minutes from Glasgow city centre. So even in the days of smoggy industry ,all this was "just over the hill" .And no I don't smoke Rick,tried it once when I was a boy and absolutely hated it. Its a mugs game is the tobacco (And Glasgow was the capital of cigarette production in its day too, much of its wealth was built on imported American Tabaccy) Incidentally in this picture the highest hill to the right is Ben Lomond . Thats the modern English way of spelling it but it comes from the gaelic "beinn Lumain" if I mind right and it means the hill of the warning beacon ,probably from the same indo-eurasion root word for "light" ,as in il"lumin"ate, like "la Lumiere" in French etc., etc.,    DAVY  

Hi lad,

A mate of mine from Canada, we grew up together and we both worked at the gas station, decided to visit England... once we finished high school. At the time, we had a good English friend living in the midlands... Leicester City.

We only went to London, because Heathrow was where our Air Canada stretched DC-8 landed. It cost just over $300.00 return, in those days. "Youth fares".

The midlands has it's share of commercial industry, so I saw no babbling brooks. Not the cleanest looking region, either; but for some reason, I quickly grew fond of the place. Everything was new to me and seemed very cool.

BTW, we made a quick trip up to Glasgow and stayed one night, in the city. I don't recall Glasgow city looking any better.

At the time, I was heavily into the British music scene, and I liked the British people... The place was a great fit for me. I had the time of my life.

BTW, On the west coast of Canada, the Greater Vancouver region, there was not much... if any, heavy industry. That mostly took place east of the Rockies, in provinces like Ontario.

Also, we've always had the benefits of hydro electric power.

I like the picture... very nice scene.

Rick

Davy,

I think you are being a tad biased, as a true Scot will always be regarding the English. I live about 35 miles south of London and visit it on a regular basis for both work and pleasure and I can say that London has a ton more to offer than Glasgow. We can also be in the countryside within 15/20 minutes of travel depending on where you are with its own character as you have.

I have also visited Glasgow on numerous occasions for work and I have to say as someone else mentioned, it ain't no different to London! especially for the smell of diesel/ petrol fumes etc. It also has some eyesores as most places have, it isn't the pretty picture you paint of it. I also thought it looked a bit drab and the railway station where I stopped nearby also looked tired and in need of some investment.

Bringing a balance to our views of locations.

Regards,

Neil

All we need now is to have somebody from France, to chime in...

How am I supposed to pick a side? I'm all three. I'll have to fight myself.

Can't we all be amigos? Just having a wee bit of fun with you lads.

Personally, I like what both peoples/countries have to offer...

I also like the Irish guys, and the Italians too...

O Canada! Our home and native land...

Your Canadian ambassador,

Rick

Hi Guys, Neil , I never once said anything about "the English" as in the people.Where did you get that ??  I never once said Glasgow was "pretty". As for London having more to offer,more what?, museums, theatres ,cinemas ,art galleries,restaurants etc etc, well I should hope so,there are what?,  10 million folk in greater  London eh? ,twice the population of the whole of Scotland, none of that interests me much, so its a matter of opinion and taste. I don't like the place, I am well familiar with it and well familiar with Birmingham ,Manchester etc.,etc., way overcrowded, way too much traffic at rush hours etc,etc,  (I also avoid Glasgow and Edinburgh in the rush hours by the way so I'm not biased) as for the surrounding scenery,yes for sure England has oodles of lovely wee villages and towns like Stratford on Avon,and leafy suburbs like Solihull in Warwickshire etc.,etc.,etc., but it ain't mountains and it isn't "big country" I like mountains and hills and lochs etc.,and lets face it the only similar hills compared to Scotland England has are in the Lake District in Cumbria,which I am also familiar with and do find beautifull, but I'm closer physically to those English hills and lakes just over the Scots border than you are down in London. You can't drive for 15/20 minutes and find a view anywhere near London like the one in the photo I posted can you ? So, the parts of England that I like best are Cumbria followed by Northumbria in the north, As for me painting a pretty picture of "Glasgow",read my post ,I said "all in all Glasgow takes some beating for its ""location"",my opinion for me,for my likes and dislikes. I can't help it if you don't like the fact that I don't like London. My favourite city for a city in itself of all the cities I've ever been to,and I've travelled pretty widely is Paris,France, there isn't any city on these British isles that comes close to it for beauty or character or pzazz as they call it,but again thats my opinion,for me, for myself. If you want to tell people how wonderfull London is Neil and how beautifull your part of England is and how much you like living there then carry on. I won't be offended in the slightest. Each to their own.Yes I am a true Scot ,from generations of Scots ,highland and lowland alike ,and even our "lowlands" are generally fairly hilly compared to most of England so most (not all) of England scenically bores me. I find London ,Birmingham and Manchester claustrophobic. I love Paris,but I couldn't live in it.... now I'll get some Frenchman telling me I'm having a go at the French ????   oh my. Anyway guys,you Americans and others by now reading this ,will realise that guess what, this wee island  over here really isn't all England. In fact if you combine Wales and Scotland very little of it is England ,England isn't an island its just part of one, true Neil ? (Ireland is over here but isn't joined on)  Regards DAVY  (from Scotland)

           SCOTLAND                                                   

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          ENGLAND                 

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         Not again!

         Rick

Davy,

You are right, you didn't use the word ' English' directly, it is the perception given when you quoted cities that are just in England and then say to live in them is like living in ****, for you anyway.  Now if you had mentioned say Cardiff, which I have been to as well several times and Belfast in NI then there is less bias.

With regards to location, we both had no choice in our countryside, I personally would like an area with mountains and lochs, but we haven't and I'm sure that some Scots would also appreciate some of our countryside we have down here, horses for courses etc. We do have one thing in common, a liking for Cumbria, we spent a week in June in Keswick solely for walking. In fact we have been going to Cumbria for some years now just to walk. We skipped doing Skiddaw again this year, did it last year.

Regarding 'Glasgow' and 'location' you actually said Glasgow as a city takes some beating, implication being it is better than the English cities as cited in the previous paragraph.

It doesn't bother me that you personally don't like London or any other city for that matter but putting personal negative spin on places is showing a bias that may influence others to form a preconceived view. I also have no desire/need to tell people about London and the surrounding countryside, but if I am asked I will give what I believe is a balanced view.

I don't remember saying how much I liked living in the South, is that your perception?

You are spot on regarding how some others see our little island, we are one small blob shared by three different groups of people with our own identities, suffice to say let's keep it there!

In keeping with Rich's request for postings to be train related, I would like to say that I have enjoyed this thread and the ideas it has given to those people looking to explore running trains in the garden. For me I need to continue with my loft conversion into my 'train room'.  

Garden railways in Great Britain are not unusual and have been around for an awful long time. Apart from the larger scales being popular there are also a lot of OO/HO garden railways, I am sure that some people have gone smaller but I'm not aware of them. Like a number of other people looking at this thread we are all waiting to see the finished article and trains running on Davy's creation but with all the rain at the moment I guess this will be a while yet. Perhaps when we are in double digit pages.

Regards from Neil (who lives the other end of our island and is English)

At the great risk of boring folk to death Neil, I have never been to Cardiff, and was only ever once in Belfast docks on a ship and never got off it so I don't think I'm in any way qualified to pass comment on those two cities. The big English cities I quoted I know and am familiar with have worked in and stayed in etc., ,so I reckon that entitles me to an informed opinion.  You quote Rick as saying to keep things train related,well I can't find that comment from Rick anywhere ?. In the course of this thread since its beginning there has been plenty non-train related banter,music ,history and guinness bottle trestles and a whole lote more , and in the same vein so I will continue.  Slainte Mhath      Davy

Well, after a number of days of good weather, I awoke to an overcast sky this morning. Actually, A nice comfortable temperature for our morning walk(my critter and I).

I see a sort-of truce has emerged.

Davy, I think Neil is probably referring to Rich Melvin, re: keeping it train related...

Here's something to remember -

For a long time, now... people, from all over the world, have saved up their hard-earned money and traveled to Britain. To see and experience both of your countries/cultures. I expect the tourists/visitors will continue to come, well into the future; because there are many things that are well worth seeing and doing...

Side note:

For me, this thread is much more than just a how-to piece. It's got a nice eclectic mix of social interaction... So far, it's been a good time. I've especially enjoyed meeting "the lad", Davy.

I hope it continues.

Cheers lads,

Rick

Hi Rick, there is no truce because I was never fightin the first place.  Back again soon Davy   

I just want Davy to spend less time on the computer and more time out working on that railroad so I can get it featured in the magazine. 

Watched an episode of Heartbeat last night. The one where Claude Greengrass and another old guy nicked the Vera Lynn. Bill Maynard is great as Claude Jeremiah  Greengrass.

Some nice scenic shots in last nights episode, including: the village, the surrounding countryside and the train.

Poor Dieter, the young German visiting, had rough go of it... including, being sucked into a North York moor, bog. Is that Britain's version of quicksand?

I never went to areas like that, when I was in England. At the time, I was more into the action found in the cities. I wouldn't mind seeing places like North York now, though.

Rick

Davy lad,

Aye, we both seem to have something for music that moves us:

"Hurt" by Johnny Cash... brilliant!

Are ya planning on coming back to this thread, or are we done, here? As I mentioned earlier, there's not much left that interests me, on the train forums. 

Regardless, I enjoyed the journey... me son.

Take care,

Rick

Hi Rick, am I done here ?, no chance. Nah, I've been pre-occupied with other things the last few days and the wet weather is back with a vengance yesterday and doesn't look like improving till Friday. A few weeks ago I joined a miniature railway society in the small town of Strathaven near where I live.They run a miniature railway in the public park there and I've been taking my grand daughter there to ride the wee train since she was a wee thing. Most of the guys in the club are retired engineers of one sort or another and very skilled they are too. They run gas , battery electric and steam locos. Its all volounteer run and as most of the guys are well up in years now they are always keen on "young blood" joining their ranks. Well I don't know if you'd call me at 58 young blood but its a wee bit younger than 70+. Anyway,I spent yesterday and the day before doin some renovation work on the railway turntable and Saturday and Sunday I spent some time on track and garden maintenance.

 As for my own garden project I managed to get some work done on the last part of the patio in the back left hand corner of the garden but nothing worth photographing yet. This picture attached shows part of the miniature railway in the park at Strathaven. Dual gauge,5" and 7.25" gauges if I mind right.They also have a 3.5 inch raised circuit outside of this picture.   DAVY

So, your branching out...

I hope those mean old guys give your granddaughter a crack at the controls. Maybe, even you, too. Your granddaughter would have a great story to share with her school mates.

BTW, Cash didn't write "Hurt". A guy from the band Nine Inch Nails, Trent Reznor, wrote it. I was never a big Johnny Cash fan, but that song, Hurt, blows me away.

I should be getting some new O gauge stuff, tomorrow. I'm looking forward to having a look...

Take care lad,

Rick