A product number will help those with expertise diagnose.  But, you might try this if you haven’t already.  Disconnect the tender from the locomotive and run separately.  From video, it seemed to me to get louder as the tender rolled by.  Regardless, small drops of light oil on the axels of all wheels(loco and tender) are indicated.  If the squeak is isolated to the locomotive you will remove the shell and apply small amount of grease to the drive.  Hope this helps.

TedW posted:

A product number will help those with expertise diagnose.  But, you might try this if you haven’t already.  Disconnect the tender from the locomotive and run separately.  From video, it seemed to me to get louder as the tender rolled by.  Regardless, small drops of light oil on the axels of all wheels(loco and tender) are indicated.  If the squeak is isolated to the locomotive you will remove the shell and apply small amount of grease to the drive.  Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tips and I will try them this evening.

Here are the product numbers:

MTH30-4244-1 PRR 2-8-0 Steam Freight Set PS 3.0

MTH40-1111 O 2- Track Steel Arch Bridge - Black

MTH40-1113 RealTrax - Graduated Trestle

I wasn't sure about my trestle spacing but have them about 5 inches apart,

   Tressel placement is ideally directly under the track joints or as close as possible anyhow.  Other than that, weight and deflection dictates what is "correct".

  My locos vary from about a pound to about 7lbs and I don't have huge locos. Obviously the latter needs more support.

   The sound shouldn't be ignored, nor hunting the source delayed. It sounds like a lathe cutting metal (may or may not be that serious)   Start hunting for metal on metal scratches on and around the wheels.

  Check gears for grease asap. This would not be a good sound comming from gears. (make sure grease is ON the gears and didn't miss at the factory)  Address issues one at a time slowly. It should also reveal where to keep inspecting for at least a while, and then long term.

  E.g., oil only one axle at a time. If you oil them all then test, you don't know where the issue was once it stops.  "Process those eliminations; slowly"

  If it is 2r/3r convertible, look at wheel wipers or contact plungers. Also, Ive had some similar squeek emitted by brand new shiney, hard wheel treads & flanges. That faded; plus they were plastic trucks, so I knew what it was once I had narrowed to the tender.

For oil where too slick of oil isn't wanted, try Wahl hair clipper oil. Very thin, does lube and protect, easily wiped off or cleaned 100% with solvent (alcohol, naptha, etc).  It doesn't make a slippery mess especially if applied by wiping. Wiping dry after won't remove it ALL either.  Enough is behind to do some good.

  Do you have alligator clip jumper wires? Jump the thing and see if the noise stops without weight or rail contact. (always carefully, some locos shouldn't be run upside-down or on thier sides [just a few though])  A chain of a few jumpers and maybe it can be run on a table or floor a foot or so to check weight sans-rails.

If you don't have a muti-meter and some jumper wires with gator-clips, start shopping. Harbor Freight often mails out a flyer-coupon for a free meter that will do fine for most of our stuff.   Jumper/test leads just make things easy peasy some days. (both are pretty common. Even our dollar store has jumpers and little analog meters sometimes...even those meters beats nothing)

(find a tool suggestion thread soon too )

We have an engine that sounds like that (Not an MTH tho, Lionel, circa 2000). Figured out that it was an electrical wiper on one of the axles. It was leaning slightly to one side, and managed to wear a slight groove into the axle. (No idea what they made that thing out of, that it can groove a steel axle!) Going around turns, the sideways thrust on the wheels causes the groove to ride against the side of the wiper, and the things starts 'singing'. Twisting the wiper, so that edge does not dig in, plus a tiny bit of grease, helped it. Something to look for.

Thanks for all the replies and information. I was able to do some troubleshooting but no fix as of yet. I disconnected the tender and it is not the source of the sound as it runs smoothly with no noise. I learned that my locomotive will no operate without the tender attached using DCS so all other tests were done with the tender. There is no noise while running on the rest of my layout that is not elevated. The noise occurs in forward and reverse as well as on both sides of the elevated sections. I saw no visible signs of wear or metal on metal scuffing. I lubricated all areas per the MTH maintenance video but one at a time retesting after each drop for resolution but no go. 

Next step would be to open her up and apply grease but the MTH tube does not come in the RTR set. Any recommendations for something I can grab from Lowe’s if not will order off of amazon as my LHS is a 2 1/2 round trip. 

Thanks in advance. 

That "squeal" in your video sounds a lot like dry steel-on-steel to me.  Look for any steel-on-steel joints, like maybe the front guide axle on the loco, or maybe something on the tender trucks, such as NICKAIX suggests or other.  I'm guessing it most likely involves an axle somewhere.  Try a tiny drop of oil on any steel-on-steel joint you find, and see if that cures the squeal.  If not, have to start scrutinizing closer until you find it and cure it with a drop of oil or grease.

Trestles - I would space the trestles further apart at each joint in the rails. This will better support the rails and decrease the grade.

Squeal - Did you use the manual volume control under the tender to turn off all the sounds?

I have watched the video several times. The squeal appears louder at the back of the locomotive than the front. You state the locomotive does not squeal on flat track, and at higher speeds, the squealing stops. I would look at the gears first and make sure they are properly greased. If you go to a hardware store for grease, make sure it is plastic compatible. I would also look at where the drawbar arm is attached to the locomotive, rear pickup roller, side rods and valve gear.

ChessieFan72 posted:

Trestles - I would space the trestles further apart at each joint in the rails. This will better support the rails and decrease the grade.

Squeal - Did you use the manual volume control under the tender to turn off all the sounds?

I have watched the video several times. The squeal appears louder at the back of the locomotive than the front. You state the locomotive does not squeal on flat track, and at higher speeds, the squealing stops. I would look at the gears first and make sure they are properly greased. If you go to a hardware store for grease, make sure it is plastic compatible. I would also look at where the drawbar arm is attached to the locomotive, rear pickup roller, side rods and valve gear.

 

I tried to pinpoint the sound and it is coming close to the middle of the 8 wheel truck. I ordered some Labelle 106 that should be here Friday but I opened her up and there seems to be plenty of grease (see pic). I turned the sound off with the app but the speaker is in the tender and the sound definitely isn’t coming from there but I can turn the sound off under the tender.

I spaced the trestles on the side in the video all the way back to my crossover and it decreased the sound while the locomotive is in reverse but no change when in forward. The squel continues in reverse on the side where I did not adjust the trestles. All of the areas you mentioned have been oiled. 

ETA:  I also removed the bridge since it is one notch higher then the tallest pair of trestles, no change. 

That looks like grease to me!

  Hhmm. I think I might try it on an oily track; downhill of course; to eliminate flañge squeal as a cause. If that stops it, it might quit on it's own after running a while.

Also, oil it on its side and give oil a chance to really penetrate the axle/bushing gap fully by letting it sit hours, then flip and repeat. Gramps left fresh rebuilds sit like that incase tolerances were tighter than expected once assembled.

The fact it only does it on a grade makes me want to say unplug the speaker and make 110% sure it isn't board sounds playing.

I was not thinking of the sound board but the speaker.  Tonight time permitting I will disconnect the sound board first to rule that out.  I hope that is the cause then I do not have to be concerned with any damage to the motor or moving parts. 

I will try oil on the track next if not resolved,  I will do the inner rail first then the outer.  Is it OK to do the center rail because of possible conductivity issues?  I have been using XL Gear for lubricating the locomotive should I use this on the rails or 3 in1?

Then if still not resolved I will oil one side of the locomotive and let sit overnight and flip in the AM and do the other side and let it sit all day.  

I'd try whatever is easiest to clean. Gear oil tends to be difficult to remove imo. This is only a test, if it is wheel/flange squeel you are done... it is what it is, and will need hours of running to fade. After tests, you don't want anymore than a trace of very thin oil for protection, if at all.

And fyi, checking grease on a new loco should be the first thing you do. That wasn't a waste of effort. About the time the warranty runs out, the gear would begin to fail.  Mistakes at factories happen.

3in1 will varnish long term, change to a more modern oil for your trains..  A cheap motor oil for testing would be fine. For trains Mobil One is pretty good, plastic safe etc. & there are companies  with train specific lube as well. Lots of threads on them.  A 5w-? should be fine in general.

Oil will actually slightly degrade contact for electrical, but is a "necessary evil".

You run no risk of shorting center to ground via oil (might get fractions of volts, nothing.... static has more umph.)

Just keep things tidy so your only cleaning a little track vs all, aren't slopping up the layout, etc.. (after cleaning with alcohol or other light solvent, wait to run so sparks don't ignite things)

Foam, tape, rubber bands etc. may be able to dampen any singing parts. (worry about a fix once sound is found)

Avoid saturating isolation paper if your center rail has them.  It's tough stuff, but long term oil could make it flake, swell, shrink, etc.. Not the end of the world, just nit picking

Adriatic posted:

I'd try whatever is easiest to clean. Gear oil tends to be difficult to remove imo. This is only a test, if it is wheel/flange squeel you are done... it is what it is, and will need hours of running to fade. After tests, you don't want anymore than a trace of very thin oil for protection, if at all.

And fyi, checking grease on a new loco should be the first thing you do. That wasn't a waste of effort. About the time the warranty runs out, the gear would begin to fail.  Mistakes at factories happen.

3in1 will varnish long term, change to a more modern oil for your trains..  A cheap motor oil for testing would be fine. For trains Mobil One is pretty good, plastic safe etc. & there are companies  with train specific lube as well. Lots of threads on them.  A 5w-? should be fine in general.

Oil will actually slightly degrade contact for electrical, but is a "necessary evil".

You run no risk of shorting center to ground via oil (might get fractions of volts, nothing.... static has more umph.)

Just keep things tidy so your only cleaning a little track vs all, aren't slopping up the layout, etc.. (after cleaning with alcohol or other light solvent, wait to run so sparks don't ignite things)

Foam, tape, rubber bands etc. may be able to dampen any singing parts. (worry about a fix once sound is found)

Thanks for all the pointers and definitely not a waste of time or effort as I am learning a lot by troubleshooting. I tried turning of the smoke and sound turning the screws fully counter clockwise since I have been using the app and neither worked. I opened up the tender and reset the screws and then they did work no sound or smoke. I disconnected the speaker and no change in the squel. 

I oiled the rails of the section where the squel is the worse, outer then inner then Center, running the locomotive several times over the oiled sections of track and no change. Cleaned the track with Goo Gone followed by 91% isopropyl no change. 

I will try lubricating overnight and tomorrow if still no resolution I can take it back to where I bought it on Saturday and have them take a look at it. They are a forum sponsor but not an authorized service center. 

it sure sounds like the break squeal effect - when the engine slows for any reason - the break squeal can activate. I don't know if this is still a feature in PS 3.

But, with no tender and still a squeal, it rules that out.

also, I noticed no smoke - have you added smoke fluid? A smoke fan unit motor could make squeals 

if it is a drive axle, then something is definitely very dry to squeal like it is binding.

Have you sent an email to MTH about the issue? It may be known if it is mechanical.

Moonman posted:

it sure sounds like the break squeal effect - when the engine slows for any reason - the break squeal can activate. I don't know if this is still a feature in PS 3.

But, with no tender and still a squeal, it rules that out.

also, I noticed no smoke - have you added smoke fluid? A smoke fan unit motor could make squeals 

if it is a drive axle, then something is definitely very dry to squeal like it is binding.

Have you sent an email to MTH about the issue? It may be known if it is mechanical.

Yes, the brake squeal effect is still a feature in PS 3 but that is more pleasing to the ear then this. 

Yes I added smoke fluid and that feature as well as the fan work as designed. 

I spoke to the store where I purchased it just now and they said bring it back and they will handle it. 

BeachHouse posted:

Moonman posted:

it sure sounds like the break squeal effect - when the engine slows for any reason - the break squeal can activate. I don't know if this is still a feature in PS 3.

But, with no tender and still a squeal, it rules that out.

also, I noticed no smoke - have you added smoke fluid? A smoke fan unit motor could make squeals 

if it is a drive axle, then something is definitely very dry to squeal like it is binding.

Have you sent an email to MTH about the issue? It may be known if it is mechanical.

Yes, the brake squeal effect is still a feature in PS 3 but that is more pleasing to the ear then this. 

Yes I added smoke fluid and that feature as well as the fan work as designed. 

I spoke to the store where I purchased it just now and they said bring it back and they will handle it. 

I overlooked that step. Good idea. That is a better level of customer service - you may want to stick with that store. Good hear the rest is working well with it.

Hopefully the last update before this issue is resolved. I took it back to the store where I purchased it from and they do not have a graded track to reproduce the issue so the owner said he will take it to MTH on Monday and I should have it back by Friday. 

I got a great deal on a “Like New” set while there so please see the new video so you know I am not some crazed guy just imagining things. Thanks to all that helped I learned a lot and I am excited to start playing. 

I am confident none of us here thought you were a crazed guy. That squeal was very noticeable. I see you moved the trestles. I am sure your locomotives appreciate that, as the grades should be lower. Glad to hear you picked up another train set. Sounds like you got the bug!

ChessieFan72 posted:

I am confident none of us here thought you were a crazed guy. That squeal was very noticeable. I see you moved the trestles. I am sure your locomotives appreciate that, as the grades should be lower. Glad to hear you picked up another train set. Sounds like you got the bug!

I think the squeal may have been a symptom of something bigger wrong with the motor. Now that I am running the MTH RK Deisel I realize that the PRR loco was very jerky at low speeds and had a lot of slow down in the curves and that is not the case with the deisel. 

I just changed my layout to an over under. I removed the pillars from the bridge as they were a space hog, did not match the color of the trestles and also that decreases the grade. I need to figure out how to get the electronic board out of the bridge pillar for the light function as I do not see a screw that is accessible. 

I plan on adding two of the 10 inch bridges to the sides of the 30 inch bridge as I think it looks a lot better in pictures I have seen. Also another switch with with a yard line. 

I was also thinking of adding a separate loop figure 8 elevated above with no grade that would run off a second DCS Explorer since I have two now. 

Once I get things more permanent, nothing is glued or screwed yet, I am going to move the layout to where it will be placed (reach will be an issue) and I plan on adding a 4x6 table with a reversing loop all on one level no grade.