Tom was back today and we made some progress on a new phase, the fascia bottom layer! Love the look of the inside curves in the center hole, when that's finished it will be dynamite! 
I'm pretty sure the fascia won't fall off, we used half a tube of glue, and that's the large tube! 
If you question or efficiency, here's what's left of twelve 5x5 birch multi-ply sheets. Looks like a couple of pirate swards in that pile, I'll have to work on a handle! 
That system is slick as snot. An when finished will look superb. I think I have the fascia/backer blocks oriented properly. Given your materials, what’s the ballpark guess on depth of cantilever. Do I see drying brush marks where you applied the water to bends, just brushed it on? Did you tack the fascia also or does the glue hold on setup? Last stupid question, would standard 1”x4” ‘s(or plywood) in place of Mianne perform similarly?
John- looks very nice. Puts a nice clean edge on the bench. I think you used more liquid nails then you have in your entire condo 
Ted- the I beam style construction and use of plywood for stringers is structurally stronger that dimensional lumber. When I was still in the home building industry, laminated beams and wood I beams were just hitting the market. They were many times stronger than standard 2X10's, 12's etc. What gives plywood its strength is the orientation of the wood grain layer to layer. All that being said, for what we are are using the lumber for I think it is adequate. When I build my next layout I plan to use an open frame design with 1x4 stringers.
For those who don't want the mess- Mainne is the way to go by far.
Bob
Truthfully, if it had it to do over, I wouldn't use the Mianne. While it works well, there are compromises that are made that I wouldn't have to make if I had simply built the benchwork. That being said, I'm happy with the Mianne, and it's going to work out fine. I was originally looking for the no mess solution, but as you can guess, that ship has sailed. Now I'm just trying to keep the mess off the carpet for the grand cleanup after we're done at this point. There was no mess with the Mianne, but then I added all the rest of the benchwork build!
Ted, no water on these curves so, on the really sharp bull nose we may have to use water to make the turn. The cantilever on the large bump-out is about 22 inches, but there's very little "give" on that when you apply weight to it, I have no doubts it'll hold anything I could possibly put on it. The base fascia is 3/8" bendable Lauan plywood, the top layer will be 1/8" birch plywood.
The fascia is tacked at a couple of places, but 90% is just the grab of the glue holding it.
As for substitutes for the Mianne, I can imagine that plywood beams of similar size to the Mianne would be more than sufficient. If I were doing it with plywood, I'd use the multi-ply I used here for the deck, that stuff is a pleasure to work with. The cost difference between multi-ply and regular plywood is minimal as it turns out, and the difference in quality is immense!
For framing, if multi ply is not available a 4' x 8' of 3/4" Birch shop grade plywood can be ripped into 13 pieces of 3 1/2" by 8' pieces. This will be far superior form of bench work construction material. Dividing 13 into the cost of any sheet of quality 3/4" plywood yields a very affordable net material expense.
I would never want to use solid dimensional lumber.
The fabricated beams used here have minor ridges or offset where the hardwood ends that tie the ends of each set of top and bottom solid wood cords and Masonite together. If you just have a basic table it can be forgiving, one may never notice it. However when a lift gate is involved the cumulative effect on this job is causing us to have difficulty in gaining proper alignment. I imagine the situation is random.
Hopefully, we're on the road to sorting out the lift gate issues.
Speaking about the lift gate, I have to say, the limit switch arrangement sucks! While the upward travel limit isn't an issue as there's room for "slop" there, the downward travel is a PITA. In addition, for reasons I can't fathom, the lift gate blew right through the limit switch bending the crap out of the lever on the leg!
I'm working on a solution that will replace the lower limit switch, and I'll likely replace the upper one as well. The problem with the lower limit is there's a fine line between the lift gate setting in place aligned and the switch not triggering and just unwinding the cable. Obviously, when it unwinds the cable, it jumps off the pulleys, what a PITA!
My solution will be simple. I'll replace the lower limit switch with a microswitch that is attached to a idler pulley and a short spring. As long as the cable is taunt, the microswitch will remain closed, as soon as I get a little slack, the switch will open and stop the downward travel. This will always result in the table being seated as far as it's going to and eliminate the issue of the cable jumping the pulleys as there will be a spring tension on it at all times. The only PITA about this solution is I have to run the one limit switch cable up to the top of the lift gate where I have a nice long expanse of cable that I can run my idler pulley on with the switch. However, I think this will result in much more reliable operation of the lift gate.
I'm ordering microswitches and pulleys as we speak.
Builder is coming out today to start site plan for new pole barn that will be 30 x 40'. Plan is to make it into a recreation of a train store of the 50's with display layouts, sales counter etc. Getting excited about getting under way!
30x40 should be a very nice space to build in! 
A lot of little things today. The installed base layer of fascia got sanded down level with the table in preparation of the Homasote installation that will come to the edge. Also, of course, installed more blocks for the remaining fascia to be installed, supports for the future bridge to a yard, and supports for a bump-out that was not sufficiently supported. For those following along, all the base layer of fascia will get this treatment to be exactly level with the table, the Homasote covers this and is cut to the outside dimension to prepare for the top fascia layer. I'm also finalizing my design for the replacement limit switch for the lift gate and ordering parts.
Following along closely John. Looking great so far.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Tom was back today and we made some progress on a new phase, the fascia bottom layer! Love the look of the inside curves in the center hole, when that's finished it will be dynamite!
I'm pretty sure the fascia won't fall off, we used half a tube of glue, and that's the large tube!
If you question or efficiency, here's what's left of twelve 5x5 birch multi-ply sheets. Looks like a couple of pirate swards in that pile, I'll have to work on a handle!
John: How do you bend your facia wood? Do you soak it in something to make it more plyable?
The base fascia is 3/8" bendable lauan (Philippine mahogany) plywood, the top layer will be 1/8" birch plywood. So far, the lauan had bent with no water, I suspect the really tight corner will require some moisture, we'll see. The 1/8" birch also bends very freely, so for the base layer that's already up, it'll just be glued on top of the first layer after the Homasote is on and trimmed.
John:
Thank you.
John,
When complete, you’re on my bucket list of must sees. Great contribution to the hobby and industry of your talents. Thank you.
Really is going to have a nice finished look......I love when a layout looks like a nice piece of furniture! ....looking good John, that’s gonna be something!..............Pat
gunrunnerjohn posted:If you question or efficiency, here's what's left of twelve 5x5 birch multi-ply sheets. Looks like a couple of pirate swards in that pile, I'll have to work on a handle!
SHOWOFF!!
Seriously though, your benchwork and construction skills are first rate!
-Greg
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:John,
When complete, you’re on my bucket list of must sees. Great contribution to the hobby and industry of your talents. Thank you.
I have to fess up, all the innovation on the layout is really Tom's talents. I'm just following behind and trying to learn as much as possible from his woodworking skills. Once I see it done, I can do some of the stuff. Many of the insights that are shaping the layout aren't really mine. My talents run a lot more to the electronics and mechanical side of things. Without Tom's help, I wouldn't be getting something like we're turning out.
John,
Sharing of talents and knowledge is the 600 pound Gorilla this hobby has over others, instead of jealousy or parochialism, most willingly give advice, help or information without hesitation.
If we all had the same talents, the world, let alone this hobby would be very boring.
John, Thanks for the kind words but it has to be known that you are one of the fastest understudys with whom I have ever worked. Sometimes I feel I just have to get out of the way. Many folks do not realize the many nuances that goes into a project such as this. It might look good and simple but it does not fall together. We should wrap up the wood working portion sometime later this year, or so it seems.
John,
You're creating a masterpiece !!!! 
Well, to Tom and John- That is one beautiful execution of an idea. Not just the woodwork and construction, but foreseeing the final project at the end. That alone is pretty impressive in the grand scheme of things. I'll tell you honestly I could never do that, not just the building of the layout, but having the foresight of what the grand plan is. Now that's pretty impressive. When the wife and myself were looking at houses years ago, I turned down many a new house because all I saw was a concrete pad and a drawing of what it was "supposed" to look like when it was done. I just couldn't fathom it. So for you guys to know and the key word here isknow what you want at the end of this project is truly amazing in my eyes. Good Luck with it all.
John - maybe I missed it, but what advantage is there to using two fascia boards ?
Why not just lay the Homasote over the plywood and then use one fascia board to cover both edges ?
Ask Tom, I'm the understudy.
Seriously, the bendable lauan plywood doesn't have a great finish, but it's a really good base, and you can form it to exactly the contour that you want the final fascia to be. Once it's glued in place, it's very solid, and the 1/8" birch will simply be glued to this great base.
Richie,
When one is building towards a finished product each step can be used to improve the foundation of the next.
When cutting French curves free hand there will be mild occasional wiggles. Mounting the lauan with urethane allows the installer to tune-up the linear edge. Then the thin fascia will have an improved/corrected flowing edge.
If I just mount the Homosote on a freehand cut spiral curve the subsequent routering for a smooth Homosote edge will only replicate run out of the plywood. Not good.
Remember, this is just a basic home made way to trim an edge that anyone could do. No special tools, no expensive equipment, just a common power tool assortment. The purpose of showing these steps is not to demonstrate perfection or to prove a point but rather to encourage others to step up and do something similar and even better.
Please do not think there is a thought that this is the best way or the only way. It's just two old guys tripping over one another n' having fun.
Tools that help would be along the line of levels, drill motor, brad or staple gun, tube dispenser and polyurethane adhesive, saber saw w /fine metal tooth blade, 100 grit paper, etc etc. Using quality plywood is a given!
We will attempt to answer questions of what we are doing and why we do it, but we make no claim of superiority. More like one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread.
Tom and John,
Seeing the steps is always good for those contemplating a build.
I will go back through my pics as I built and post them in a new thread for those who feel a dimensional lumber build is what works for them. My benchwork is 1x3 select pine with sandable 13/16 plywood tops, covered with foam sheeting and edged with an engineered facia.
It is by no means as intricate as what you two are building, but might be a good contrast of skills needed for those afraid to use power tools and make a few mistakes as they go.
As long as the mistakes with the power tools don't involve bodily injury, the rest can be cleaned up with a generous application of money!
Or John, the mistakes might lead to new and innovative designs, or a very happy store manager
John / Tom,
Many thanks to you guys for posting your progress in this forum. The work is beautiful and an inspiration to those if yes yet to build our dream layouts. I've picked up alot if great ideas from this thread. Looking forward to the rest if the build, and of course the trains!
gunrunnerjohn posted:As long as the mistakes with the power tools don't involve bodily injury, the rest can be cleaned up with a generous application of money!
My old boss used to say "I can build you anything you want...just give me enough money to do it"
RSJB18 posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:As long as the mistakes with the power tools don't involve bodily injury, the rest can be cleaned up with a generous application of money!
My old boss used to say "I can build you anything you want...just give me enough money to do it"
Odd, I subscribe to the same personal mantra.
Great job John and Tom !!!!
When the Home Depot employees know you by name
that's when you know the project has gone into extra innings!!
Dave,
The bad part was that the nearest HD is 18 miles away, and often I was there 3 or more times while building my layout. Sadly, it was usually a box of screws or something very simple that I ran out of or needed.
John, I just got done reading 2 pages to get up to speed. Thank you and Tom for all the details your sharing with the rest of us. Your helping school a large group of us, you may not know it but your expanding minds as you go along! Great work and an Amazing layout table!
The good news is, there are HD and Lowes stores pretty close to me, and I'm a regular customer.
GRJ,
That is going to be one awesome layout! Also the surrounding area looks really comfortable and inviting..a perfect atmosphere to build your masterpiece. I'm thinking the mess from construction is worth the finished product and it really looks like you're a "clean as you go" kinda guy so it never gets out of hand....
Like many others here who are just starting their own builds the tips and ideas in this thread are priceless! Thank you and Tom for sharing the process...
I think a couple of my neighbors think I'm nuts from the look I got when they eyed the layout under construction.
gunrunnerjohn posted:I think a couple of my neighbors think I'm nuts from the look I got when they eyed the layout under construction.
If they ever find out how much money we spend on our layouts they’ll have people outside waiting to take us away.
gunrunnerjohn posted:I think a couple of my neighbors think I'm nuts from the look I got when they eyed the layout under construction.
Sounds to me like you need some new neighbors. I guessing there are a few hundred forum members that would LOVE to be your neighbor.
A couple places up the street are for sale Jim, want me to refer you to an agent?
Rod and Jim both; those are great comments!!
John, yes it could be the start of O-Gaugetown!
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