NYC Classics

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I would expect that if Lionel did do a Mercury, that the possibility of a brass hybrid may be the best chance they would have of doing it right. I'm not sure for the K4 Torpedoes if that would be the same type of ideal situation, but what do I know. Either way there is a chance to do a better locomotive. Maybe we can get Pat to make one, lol.

The last semi stream-lined engine they offered in Hybrid brass didn't get enough orders to proceed.  Brass is best  kept for the highly detailed engines.

@superwarp1 posted:

The last semi stream-lined engine they offered in Hybrid brass didn't get enough orders to proceed.  Brass is best  kept for the highly detailed engines.

I’d agree with that Gary, 100% ……a diecast streamliner is absolutely fine by me,….they can capture the important details of a shrouded engine in diecast perfectly fine,….now get some of that crazy plumbing H10’s and what nots have, and that’s best done in brass,….

Pat

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Hey Pete,

Thanks for raining so thoroughly on my parade.  I purchased both the locomotive and the cars brand new from 3rd rail, have had them ever since, and are quite happy with them, both in appearance and in operation.

On the other hand, in spite of my dedication to them I would agree if the general consensus is that they're 3rd Rail's worst effort ever.  Odd?

Mike

Hey Mike, I bought one direct from 3rd Rail back in the day and enjoy it as well.  The only issue I’ve had is the Seuthe smoke unit wick burning out, which is regular maintenance.  That said, the valve gear is delicate like Pete said and something to watch when handling it. As I recall, this was 3rd Rail’s first (and only?) attempt with die cast. The engine was significantly delayed in coming to market and, as noted, does not have some of the impressive detail that is standard for 3rd Rail.  It did come with lighted drivers which was impressive for the time.

The matching cars were impressive, especially the observation with its unique back end.  However I wasn’t able to swing for those.  So mine pulls MTH 20th Century streamlined cars instead.

Just to be clear my gripe isn’t about it being diecast though apparently many don’t realize that it is looking at the ones offered on the auction sites as “3rd Rail Brass engine”. Its more about the wide open cab and delicate running gear.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Just to be clear my gripe isn’t about it being diecast though apparently many don’t realize that it is looking at the ones offered on the auction sites as “3rd Rail Brass engine”. Its more about the wide open cab and delicate running gear.

Pete

Gotta call it like ya see it Pete,….I thought I wanted one too, but after holding one in my hands at a train show, your observations sure ain’t unfounded,…..nice shell, but that’s about it,….😳

Pat

@PRRronbh posted:

Hi Skip, no not referring to you.  I know you have a MTH P&LE A2a Berk but do recall the first time I saw you post it, you called it a NYC engine instead of P&LE.

The P&LE was at the time a subsidiary of the New York Central System. Are you drawing a distinction between NYC and NYCS?  At the time, 1947-48 The P&LE was a subsidiary of the New York Central System and as such could correctly be referred to as a New York Central locomotive. I am a fan of the New York Central and all of its subsidiary lines. Most of the time I believe I do refer to the A2a as a NYC/P&LE locomotive, but calling it a New York Central locomotive is not necessarily wrong.  The lettering on the tender stands as a testament to that fact.

@superwarp1 posted:

The last semi stream-lined engine they offered in Hybrid brass didn't get enough orders to proceed.  Brass is best  kept for the highly detailed engines.

Well wait a minute, I wasn't saying the shell would be brass. I also thought that for the majority of steam engines there really isn't any brass on them at all. I do know that they have thrown around the term "brass hybrid", and there has been some of the detailing in brass, handrails, valves or some other such stuff(maybe something in the cab?). Should I have said diecast with tons of brass detailing where needed?

@NYC Fan posted:

The P&LE was at the time a subsidiary of the New York Central System. Are you drawing a distinction between NYC and NYCS?  At the time, 1947-48 The P&LE was a subsidiary of the New York Central System and as such could correctly be referred to as a New York Central locomotive. I am a fan of the New York Central and all of its subsidiary lines. Most of the time I believe I do refer to the A2a as a NYC/P&LE locomotive, but calling it a New York Central locomotive is not necessarily wrong.  The lettering on the tender stands as a testament to that fact.

I am confident that the P&LE management and crews did NOT see it that way.  That is why they fought to keep themselves out of the PC.  Then late won their total independence as of February 1979 as the "NEW P&LE."

Ron

@PRRronbh posted:

I am confident that the P&LE management and crews did NOT see it that way.  That is why they fought to keep themselves out of the PC.  Then late won their total independence as of February 1979 as the "NEW P&LE."

Ron

What’s the PC merger got ANYTHING to do with the A2’s?…..by the time the P&LE had their Independence Day, all of the A2’s were made into refrigerators and bicycles…….the A2a Berkshire was part of the NEW YORK CENTRAL SYSTEM. that system consisted of:

1. New York Central

2. The B&A

3. The Big Four

4. Lake Shore & Michigan Central

5. AND THE P&LE…😉 and probably some other roads I’ve forgotten about ..

Pat

@PRRronbh posted:

I am confident that the P&LE management and crews did NOT see it that way.  That is why they fought to keep themselves out of the PC.  Then late won their total independence as of February 1979 as the "NEW P&LE."

Ron

But the A2a's were scrapped over a decade before the PC merger. They belonged to a different era when the New York Central System had control over its subsidiaries including the P&LE. They in fact had the power to force the A2a's on the P&LE when they really didn't want them.

@NYC Fan posted:

But the A2a's were scrapped over a decade before the PC merger. They belonged to a different era when the New York Central System had control over its subsidiaries including the P&LE. They in fact had the power to force the A2a's on the P&LE when they really didn't want them.

I guess the NYC management didn't have "control" over the P^LE when the P&LE management did not go along into the PC (PennCentral merger!

Ron

@PRRronbh posted:

I guess the NYC management didn't have "control" over the P^LE when the P&LE management did not go along into the PC (PennCentral merger!

Ron

Again, what does this have to do with the A2a New York central Systems 2-8-4 Berkshire type steam locomotive?……the discussion has drifted way off course of THAT particular locomotive……but not by us!……

Pat

Did someone say NYC Classics? Well, after about or over 6 years of insane searching and lots of bad luck(I guess), I finally have caught my big fish as it were. Finally, 28084, Lionel's New York Central J3a Dreyfuss Hudson is mine. While at York, I was aware that it was on the TCA Buy/Sell site. York proved to either be hiding or just my luck to miss this engine if it was there.

So, I popped a line to the seller Rich and asked him if he still had it, I think it was late Thursday evening of York. Friday morning I saw he answered and everything proceeded from there. Maybe I paid a bit more than what should be going price, but this was still completely sealed and never opened.

So, now I will have to drop a line over to Bruk when I get time this weekend I suppose to see how long the line is to wait, which I can. I just wish I had more time last night and motivation since I was tuckered out from work to open everything up all the way. I just peeked in a bit to get even more excited before leaving the Jets/Colts game for bed.

Many happy dreams danced in my head last night, though I don't remember any of them. I guess they skipped the train or my dreams lost their train of thought.

Now, just need passenger cars to go with it. I think my local guy Tony may have some, just have to ask when I pop in again.

Sleeping giant waiting to be awoken.

@PRRronbh posted:

I guess the NYC management didn't have "control" over the P^LE when the P&LE management did not go along into the PC (PennCentral merger!

Ron

I don't know what that has to do with the A2a Berkshires or the NYC/P&LE business model of the 1940's and 1950's when these locomotives were conceived, purchased, in service, and scrapped.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Did someone say NYC Classics? Well, after about or over 6 years of insane searching and lots of bad luck(I guess), I finally have caught my big fish as it were. Finally, 28084, Lionel's New York Central J3a Dreyfuss Hudson is mine. While at York, I was aware that it was on the TCA Buy/Sell site. York proved to either be hiding or just my luck to miss this engine if it was there.

So, I popped a line to the seller Rich and asked him if he still had it, I think it was late Thursday evening of York. Friday morning I saw he answered and everything proceeded from there. Maybe I paid a bit more than what should be going price, but this was still completely sealed and never opened.

So, now I will have to drop a line over to Bruk when I get time this weekend I suppose to see how long the line is to wait, which I can. I just wish I had more time last night and motivation since I was tuckered out from work to open everything up all the way. I just peeked in a bit to get even more excited before leaving the Jets/Colts game for bed.

Many happy dreams danced in my head last night, though I don't remember any of them. I guess they skipped the train or my dreams lost their train of thought.

Now, just need passenger cars to go with it. I think my local guy Tony may have some, just have to ask when I pop in again.

Sleeping giant waiting to be awoken.

BTW, Bruk returned my Dreyfuss Hudsons packed exactly like your photo. Looked brand new and undisturbed. Had to put them on the track to see if they were now Legacy! He does great work.

Great find, Skip. Can’t wait for the unveiling.

Great find Dave, ….I know one of them has been on your radar for a minute!..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Great find Dave, ….I know one of them has been on your radar for a minute!..

Pat

Yeah, I know when I got out of the hobby all the lawsuit engines were just being conceived. Almost sound like I had something to do with it, lol. I know when I returned to the hobby and found out they made one just after I left, I was like, "Aw man." Now the dream is real.

I also looked for the Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson for a few years when I was fortunate to pick one up from Grzyboski’s a couple of years ago... one of these days, I’ll have to look for a matching set of passenger cars.

Is this particular Dreyfuss 'special' or 'unique'?  Hasn't Lionel and MTH both made several models since the early 2000's?

@c.sam posted:

Is this particular Dreyfuss 'special' or 'unique'?  Hasn't Lionel and MTH both made several models since the early 2000's?

Could be a few reasons Sam. Lionel, of course uses the more popular TMCC vs MTH DCS. Another for a  NYC fan, Lionel’s model is of the second run that NYC ordered with Scullin Disks and Roller bearing rods while all of MTH’s are models of NYC first order that came with Boxpok Drivers and plain bearing rods. Both well detailed and fine runners.

Pete

@c.sam posted:

Is this particular Dreyfuss 'special' or 'unique'?  Hasn't Lionel and MTH both made several models since the early 2000's?

Sam;

I can’t speak to MTH production (I’m strictly Lionel when it comes to engines) but to the best of my knowledge, Lionel has only done 2 Dreyfuss Hudsons - the Smithsonian version from the early 90’s which still commands big bucks, and the 28084. To me, it is special, but I’m not sure if everyone would agree with me As an NYC fan, it was high on my personal must have list.

@Norton posted:

Could be a few reasons Sam. Lionel, of course uses the more popular TMCC vs MTH DCS. Another for a  NYC fan, Lionel’s model is of the second run that NYC ordered with Scullin Disks and Roller bearing rods while all of MTH’s are models of NYC first order that came with Boxpok Drivers and plain bearing rods. Both well detailed and fine runners.

Pete

MTH did one run of the later Dreyfuss with Scullin discs, roller rod bearings, and PT tender,….they don’t show up for sale often, and when they do, they disappear fast,…..kind of a rare bird,….

Pat

@c.sam posted:

Is this particular Dreyfuss 'special' or 'unique'?  Hasn't Lionel and MTH both made several models since the early 2000's?

Also to add to what Pete mentioned, the Lionel 28084 Dreyfuss, is in the same family as Lionel’s J3’s 28072, & 38041 ( the latter being from the anniversary set) to some of us, as far as production goes, these are some of the most robust well built Hudsons to come out of the Far East,…Lionel’s Korean production around the time that this Dreyfuss was made was absolutely top notch,…..albeit the early Oddesy can be notchy, with simple add ons, such as a Cruise M and fan smoke, they can be beasts,….did I mention factory Pittman powered,…always a plus!!..

Pat

@Artie-DL&W posted:

Great find, Skip. Can’t wait for the unveiling.

Actually he did, back over on page 9. Have a look Artie.

Skip's 28084 Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson Upgraded by Bruk back on page 9

I completely forgot that the video was there. Sad thing is, I watched it, but I guess my brain wasn't home during the video. Great camera angle too.

@c.sam posted:

Is this particular Dreyfuss 'special' or 'unique'?  Hasn't Lionel and MTH both made several models since the early 2000's?

As Pete and Pat have mentioned, this is probably one of the best Lionel model's made. Best Hudson, that I can't answer but of the 3 mentioned, I guess it would come down to personal preference. As Pat stated, the overall winner is the Pittman motor. The stuff that came out with these motors installed, could pull anything you threw at it(so I've heard, lol).

Thanks, Dave, my bad. They’re beautiful locomotives.

No problem Artie, there are tons of things missed even if you follow a topic from beginning to end. I know I have missed a few things that have been right under my nose.

One question about the New York Central I have is the addition of "Lines" on some of the tenders. Was this a certain period or for short lines or such?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

One question about the New York Central I have is the addition of "Lines" on some of the tenders. Was this a certain period or for short lines or such?

“New York Central Lines” was on the tenders of the subsidiary roads that the Central proper controlled, such as the Lake Shore, the Michigan Central, P&LE, and the Big Four engines,….not long after the system wide renumbering (1936) the Central began also changing the font on locomotives from Railroad Roman, to Railroad Gothic, ( around 1940) when the font change happened, the “Lines” was dropped in favor of “ Systems” …..thus, “ New York Central Systems” ….all of this change over didn’t happen overnight. As the locomotives were shopped for major repairs, or overhaul time, that’s when they’d get new lettering,…..

Pat  

@harmonyards posted:

“New York Central Lines” was on the tenders of the subsidiary roads that the Central proper controlled, such as the Lake Shore, the Michigan Central, P&LE, and the Big Four engines,….not long after the system wide renumbering (1936) the Central began also changing the font on locomotives from Railroad Roman, to Railroad Gothic, ( around 1940) when the font change happened, the “Lines” was dropped in favor of “ Systems” …..thus, “ New York Central Systems” ….all of this change over didn’t happen overnight. As the locomotives were shopped for major repairs, or overhaul time, that’s when they’d get new lettering,…..

Pat  

I remember some discussions on this, but couldn't recall the whole conversation. I do remember that someone had said that the Legacy Ten Wheeler #827 shouldn't have "Lines" on it, Lionel made an error. What exactly, I don't know. I believe Skip had said something about that on the conversation about it though.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I remember some discussions on this, but couldn't recall the whole conversation. I do remember that someone had said that the Legacy Ten Wheeler #827 shouldn't have "Lines" on it, Lionel made an error. What exactly, I don't know. I believe Skip had said something about that on the conversation about it though.

Well, F-12 ten wheeler # 827 as delivered from Alco Schenectady was a NYCHR RR engine from the get go,….more than LIKELY she remained an eastern division locomotive, so in fact, she would have worn the “ New York Central “ lettering as she was part of the Central proper…..many F12’s and all of the F12 sub classes, were assigned to commuter duties, and many made the trip from Harmon to points northwards, ( or west by timetable)  most notably, a lot of them shot up the Put Put ( as grandad called the Putnam division )  ……GCT’s major revenue was still commuter traffic, so at Harmon, commuter trains were switched out for F12’s or MU consists were simply pulled by F12’s where the electrified lines ended, and steam power was needed to continue the journey,……as most of y’all NYC enthusiasts know, a commuter would come in from the city, either pulled by an electric, or self propelled electric cars, ten wheelers would be on the ready tracks at Harmon, after being quick serviced at the Harmon engine facility after making the return trip south into Harmon, they would then back down the reversing loop at Harmon, and couple onto a Northbound commuter,…..they never ventured south of Harmon, as that entire district was electrified,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Well, F-12 ten wheeler # 827 as delivered from Alco Schenectady was a NYCHR RR engine from the get go,….more than LIKELY she remained an eastern division locomotive, so in fact, she would have worn the “ New York Central “ lettering as she was part of the Central proper…..many F12’s and all of the F12 sub classes, were assigned to commuter duties, and many made the trip from Harmon to points northwards, ( or west by timetable)  most notably, a lot of them shot up the Put Put ( as grandad called the Putnam division )  ……GCT’s major revenue was still commuter traffic, so at Harmon, commuter trains were switched out for F12’s or MU consists were simply pulled by F12’s where the electrified lines ended, and steam power was needed to continue the journey,……as most of y’all NYC enthusiasts know, a commuter would come in from the city, either pulled by an electric, or self propelled electric cars, ten wheelers would be on the ready tracks at Harmon, after being quick serviced at the Harmon engine facility after making the return trip south into Harmon, they would then back down the reversing loop at Harmon, and couple onto a Northbound commuter,…..they never ventured south of Harmon, as that entire district was electrified,….

Pat

I believe #827, later renumbered #1240, was used on the Putnam Division pulling short commuter trains between Sedgwick Ave in the Bronx and Brewster in Putnam County. It was also used to pull freight on the Put.

This photo is a Gray Oaks on the Putnam Division. This is 827 after dropping a cut of freight cars, which will be picked up by an 0-8-0.

No.827 pulling a freight at Put Junction. The short C class tender was characteristic of Putnam Division Ten Wheelers. The tenders that originally were built for these ten wheelers were too heavy for the weight restrictions on the Putnam bridges and they were too long for the small Put turntables.

Yorktown Heights on the Putnam Division.

827 with a commuter train on the Putnam Division.

Yorktown Heights turntable.

The word "LINES" did not belong on the tender of 827.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I remember some discussions on this, but couldn't recall the whole conversation. I do remember that someone had said that the Legacy Ten Wheeler #827 shouldn't have "Lines" on it, Lionel made an error. What exactly, I don't know. I believe Skip had said something about that on the conversation about it though.

Yes we did have that conversation. Lionel had put out a similar ten wheeler in 2002 with a high mounted headlight and #1916. This was a Boston & Albany ten wheeler and correctly had "NEW YORK CENTRAL LINES" and a small "B&A" on the tender.

When Lionel catalogued #827, known to be used on the Putnam Division, they correctly eliminated the word "LINES" and the "B&A."

But when produced they only removed the small "B&A" and left the word "LINES."

Skip, wonderful pics. I don't see no "Lines" on the tender, which like I said above I believe you had indicated in one of the topics somewhere that it was wrong when it was produced by Lionel. I do know that mine I have to get the smoke unit fixed as I think GRJ had said that that release of Ten Wheelers had some issues with the smoke units burning out quickly or some such thing.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Skip, wonderful pics. I don't see no "Lines" on the tender, which like I said above I believe you had indicated in one of the topics somewhere that it was wrong when it was produced by Lionel. I do know that mine I have to get the smoke unit fixed as I think GRJ had said that that release of Ten Wheelers had some issues with the smoke units burning out quickly or some such thing.

I coupled 827 up to a smaller tender with correct lettering. It looks kind of "Puttish" don't you think?

Yes it does Skip.

Front End Friday!!!

Indeed it is Skip,…😉

Pat

Lately, I have been trying to put together a NYC Mail Train. From info and pictures I’ve found online, I am using my VisionLine Niagara, two pairs of NYC baggage cars, and an RPO I just picked up the other day. Can any of the very knowledgeable NYC fans here point me to a good source of info on mail trains (make up, equipment, motive power, etc.)??? I have seen photos which suggest that mail trains may have included one or more passenger cars... I’ve searched the NYC Historical Society’s archive, and most of what I’ve found are photos, many of which concern one particular RPO car. And leads would be greatly appreciated.

I have seen photos of such trains that also include express reefers. JohnA

@John A posted:

I have seen photos of such trains that also include express reefers. JohnA

Thanks, John. I read somewhere in my research that sometimes the mail train included some fast freight, including some milk cars, so that might be what you saw in the photos.

@Apples55 posted:

Thanks, John. I read somewhere in my research that sometimes the mail train included some fast freight, including some milk cars, so that might be what you saw in the photos.

Paul, the Central’s practice was mail and perishables were all part of express service,….to answer some of your questions on your previous replies,….mail trains were made up of RPO’s and baggage cars assigned to mail & express, and specific express box cars, designed for speed. Typically, the clerks would separate mail on the RPO on route, and mail would be picked up, or dropped off at various stops on baggage and express cars,……depending on load and available equipment would determine what made up a mail train. Motive power, again would depend on availability, locomotives bumped  from named and priority passenger service trains often found their next careers moving mail & express,….the Hudsons bumped the Pacifics, the Pacifics moved mail, the Niagaras bumped Hudsons, so the Hudsons moved mail, etc,.etc,….but in the hey-day, Hudsons did a lot of mail and express work as they were designed for speed,…and speed was the key running timely mail and express trains,…….there are video clips of Niagaras moving fast mail ….so your train set is quite correct,….you just need like 2 dozen more baggage cars,…..😉

Pat

Great drive-by Paul. I have always enjoyed watching some old film footage of some of the Central's freight/passenger service in action. One of the ones I really enjoyed the most was one of the Mohawk's hauling tank cars back. I believe that the video said they were empties, and there were a lot of them.

Whatever video that one was, had a good variety of steam in it. Mostly comprised of Mohawk's doing a lot of freight duty, some Hudson's doing passenger service, and IIRC, some of the Putnam Division short line running about. I can't remember exactly what the title of the video was, but I think it may have come up in either "New York Central Water Level Route" or "New York Central Mohawk(or along the Mohawk). It's been a long while since I watched it, just remember tons of tank cars passing by the camera.

I was also going to suggest watching NYC Water Level Route on Youtube. You only get glimpses of trains but a few show a combine or coach in the mix. Maybe only for the crew but clearly something other than baggage and RPO cars there.

Pete

.....the 4-6-6T has found another use on the Central after leaving the B&A......it will pull a Christmas train this year......

Peter

@Norton posted:

I was also going to suggest watching NYC Water Level Route on Youtube. You only get glimpses of trains but a few show a combine or coach in the mix. Maybe only for the crew but clearly something other than baggage and RPO cars there.

Pete

As Pete mentioned, and I should’ve added in my reply, combines and and coaches were used in mail & express services ……pretty much anything that was available that could haul the mail,….

Pat

Thanks John/Pat/Dave/Pete for the informative responses. I found some Water Level Route videos on YouTube which I’ll watch in the next day or so. I do have a Legacy J3a, so I’ve got some additional motive power if needed. I also have some NYC milk cars and Pacemaker boxcars to add into the mix. And I’m pretty sure I have a combine and another baggage car, but @harmonyards, even if I could afford two dozen baggage cars (I can’t), I haven’t anywhere near the amount of real estate needed to run something that long

@Apples55 posted:

Thanks John/Pat/Dave/Pete for the informative responses. I found some Water Level Route videos on YouTube which I’ll watch in the next day or so. I do have a Legacy J3a, so I’ve got some additional motive power if needed. I also have some NYC milk cars and Pacemaker boxcars to add into the mix. And I’m pretty sure I have a combine and another baggage car, but @harmonyards, even if I could afford two dozen baggage cars (I can’t), I haven’t anywhere near the amount of real estate needed to run something that long

https://newyorkcentrallayout.b...ly-bird-service.html

Paul, some good info here on Pacemaker & Early Bird Fast Freight on that link,….Pacemaker freight didn’t appear until 46, and Early Bird till sometime after that,….I don’t think you’d see Pacemaker freight cars mixed in mail & express ….Pacemaker freight was a totally separate service, and freight still had to yield right of way to express and passenger varnish,….

Pat

How about this Old/New NYC Classic? This is that delightfully old Lionel 18009 New York Central L3a Mohawk #3000. Years and years ago it had run under the Christmas Tree, taken a header on the Fireman's side Piston into a radiator pipe, pulled a bunch of cars on a carpet pull and fired the rear coupler.

It had been put on the wayside where it had collected quite a bit of dust(no rust) ashamed to run in its weakened state. Well, those days have passed. This old engine got sent to the Harmon Shops for some much needed TLC. Not only did it get a new motor(Pittman), it got a crew(overly enthusiastic I may add), blackened drivers, windows, real coal load, paint on that piston, and the back head(right, that is what it is called?) got detailed with painted gauges. I don't think I left anything out of the Harmon Shops work(did I Pat?).

After leaving the Harmon Shops, it went to Alex M. to add all the electronics, Super Chuffer, Chuff Generator, LED's and a replacement rear electrocoupler so it can haul the big loads once more. She may be only running circles right now, but eventually she will be graduated up to regular service(once a layout is built) to run an even larger circle(haha) to haul those big freight loads. Only time will tell when that happens. All this thanks to Pat(Harmonyards) and Alex M.

PS., show us your Mohawks.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

PS., show us your Mohawks.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

PS., show us your Mohawks.

@Randy Harrison posted:

Randy wins the forum today

@Apples55 posted:

Randy wins the forum today

@Apples55

Paul:

Thank you.

@Randy Harrison posted:

Hmm, I really doubt any freight is going to be pulled with that. Darn.

Here is my MTH L-3c coming off the turntable and a short video of it pulling a string of MTH club cars.

Mohawk # 2795, a member of the L2 class ( L2a) rides the turntable at Harmon

Mohawk # 2967 another L2 class, ( L2d ) is spotted waiting for a signal

Mohawks 3010 & 3005 members of the L3 class ( L3a) are seen waiting for service at Harmon

Pat

Now those are some Mohawks! You all know how to make me smile after a very long day. I got home just a bit before 8PM, that is a very long day.

Nice running there Rob.

Pat, I suspect that some of those Mohawks really enjoyed being retrofitted.

Skip, that is a really, really long train there.

First generation MTH RailKing Mohawk born as ATSF, Upgraded from bad e-unit to Proto 1 by VinDiesel and converted back to classic NYC by me.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

How about this Old/New NYC Classic? This is that delightfully old Lionel 18009 New York Central L3a Mohawk #3000. Years and years ago it had run under the Christmas Tree, taken a header on the Fireman's side Piston into a radiator pipe, pulled a bunch of cars on a carpet pull and fired the rear coupler.

It had been put on the wayside where it had collected quite a bit of dust(no rust) ashamed to run in its weakened state. Well, those days have passed. This old engine got sent to the Harmon Shops for some much needed TLC. Not only did it get a new motor(Pittman), it got a crew(overly enthusiastic I may add), blackened drivers, windows, real coal load, paint on that piston, and the back head(right, that is what it is called?) got detailed with painted gauges. I don't think I left anything out of the Harmon Shops work(did I Pat?).

After leaving the Harmon Shops, it went to Alex M. to add all the electronics, Super Chuffer, Chuff Generator, LED's and a replacement rear electrocoupler so it can haul the big loads once more. She may be only running circles right now, but eventually she will be graduated up to regular service(once a layout is built) to run an even larger circle(haha) to haul those big freight loads. Only time will tell when that happens. All this thanks to Pat(Harmonyards) and Alex M.

Pat and Alex do great things with O gauge trains!

On advice of counsel, and after due deliberation, the Pacemaker cars are out. I’ve watched some of the Waterlevel Route videos, and it appears that some sort of passenger car is appropriate, so I’ve added another Lionel baggage car and a GGD combo car - I may need to do a little rearranging of the cars since I believe I read somewhere that the RR contract with the Postal Service stipulated that no one could walk through the RPO. I also looked around and I found a few Merchants Dispatch Transfer reefers... may add in a couple (but the train is getting a bit long ).

I've seen that same Mohawk in Skips video running through "my neck of the woods" as well.

Albeit pulling a bit shorter trains however .

Paul, MTH makes very nice express box cars,…..they show up from time to time,…that’ll add that authentic touch,….great looking train so far!….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Paul, MTH makes very nice express box cars,…..they show up from time to time,…that’ll add that authentic touch,….great looking train so far!….

Pat

---

I once did a LOT of research on cars found on the Central’s M&E trains and have seen express and baggage cars from the UP, B&O, DSS&A and the Milwaukee Road. @Apples55, I agree you have a super nice trains. I sent you an email with links to several YouTube videos with hours of NYC action that should get you some welcome information.

thanks!

-Mario

@CentralFan1976 posted:

I once did a LOT of research on cars found on the Central’s M&E trains and have seen express and baggage cars from the UP, B&O, DSS&A and the Milwaukee Road. @Apples55, I agree you have a super nice trains. I sent you an email with links to several YouTube videos with hours of NYC action that should get you some welcome information.

thanks!

-Mario

Absolutely, did not matter where the car came from, if there was revenue to be made, it got hauled

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Absolutely, did not matter where the car came from, if there was revenue to be made, it got hauled

Pat

Yeah, I think I had asked just after joining the forum about the mix of other railroad cars, that is from other railroads. I think the reply was why would they bother to unload the car(freight) from the other railroad's car that would take up time when they could just run it up as is. I had also asked about repairs to other railroad's cars and the reply was much the same. Send them the bill. Keep up a mix of cars as it is so real anyway.

@CentralFan1976 posted:

I once did a LOT of research on cars found on the Central’s M&E trains and have seen express and baggage cars from the UP, B&O, DSS&A and the Milwaukee Road. @Apples55, I agree you have a super nice trains. I sent you an email with links to several YouTube videos with hours of NYC action that should get you some welcome information.

thanks!

-Mario

Mario;

I received the playlist. I can’t thank you enough. Luckily I’m retired because it will take quite a while to get through all of the interesting videos in your list.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Yeah, I think I had asked just after joining the forum about the mix of other railroad cars, that is from other railroads. I think the reply was why would they bother to unload the car(freight) from the other railroad's car that would take up time when they could just run it up as is. I had also asked about repairs to other railroad's cars and the reply was much the same. Send them the bill. Keep up a mix of cars as it is so real anyway.

Quite correct ……any company’s in house service dept. ( example: car maintenance shops) are the red headed step child of a company. Maintenance shops are seen in the eyes of the company’s holders as a drain on the company’s bottom line. One way to help offset costs was to charge other railroads for repairs to their broken equipment. Not only other railroads, but also other companies or lease companies that owned cars that were hauled by the railroads. A good example I can cite was the relationship between Proctor & Gamble, and the NYC, …P&G owned their own cars outright, but paid the Central to move them AND make any necessary repairs,…..not much different then when you take your automobile to the mechanic for repairs,…..

Pat

A HAPPY THANKSGIVING AND A HEALTHY AND HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON!

Unloading freshly cut Christmas Trees from western Pennsylvania in Manhattan's West Side Yards!!!

Hey, that looks familiar. I had said that the farmer near me usually starts stocking Christmas trees today or so and sells them throughout the month all the way to Christmas. Looking good Skip, Happy Thanksgiving.

I had thought I'd be posting this sooner, but there was a big delay with the shipping on this nice engine. It got stuck in Springfield Massachusetts right before and after Thanksgiving. It finally got here yesterday afternoon to greet me when I came home from work.

This engine I got very fortunate to see on bid on ebay, and was lucky enough to get the winning bid in 4-5 seconds before it expires while I was at work. I am very pleased that this engine is now in my roster as I love the color green, and I'll get this upgraded at some point. Tons of upgrading projects in the works, who knows when all that will end.

So, here it is, the New York Central A2 Berkshire from MTH.

Great Engine! I got mine a while ago, also. As far as upgrades, unless you specifically run TMCC the sounds on this are great and it runs like a dream. It's one of the best runners I have, and that's compared to other MTH Hudson's, and 3rd Rail Hudson's also. It's a great running machine and beautiful also! Enjoy!

Well, I only have Legacy and really don't want to invest in DCS as this is the first MTH engine in my roster. I don't doubt that the sounds are great. One thing I was surprised by(or I'm more tired than I thought I was) was how heavy the engine by itself is. It felt really heavy to me, I sort of didn't expect it.

As far as upgrading, I will be seeking this to get a Legacy upgrade much like my Dreyfuss Hudson will be getting. Naturally I have to make contact first and I already know there is a delay as well as a waiting list which is fine for me. I just have to join the line as it were.

Dave, you can always run it in conventional. MTH PS2/3 engines have cruise control even in conventional.

Pete

I was fortunate enough to talk to Dave while he was bidding on this A2,…via email of course,….you never saw a kid so giddy ever!….good job Dave, that’s a tough one to track down!…elusive little creatures those pesky P&LE boys,…huh??….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣……Ron’s gonna jump my ***…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I was fortunate enough to talk to Dave while he was bidding on this A2,…via email of course,….you never saw a kid so giddy ever!….good job Dave, that’s a tough one to track down!…elusive little creatures those pesky P&LE boys,…huh??….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣……Ron’s gonna jump my ***…Pat

Yeah, it is something else to find something that is extremely hard to find. I knew I would eventually get the elusive Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson, but the A2, I never ever thought I would ever see one. I had previously heard on one of Mr. Muffin's live streams when someone was asking about his that they don't pop up often, but when they do, they disappear quick. This is my first scale Berkshire, which I had been trying to get a NPR #765 or one of it's sister a couple of years back. Well, that didn't pan out because I was late to the party. I know that those will come up once again in the future, but this was that "Big Fish" that you hear about.

I have already replied back to the seller thanking her for having this out there, and told her it has come to a good home. I have also dropped a line out there to see if this will be able to get converted to Legacy by Bruk, but I will be waiting if he will be able to do this as there is a bunch of stuff ahead of my Dreyfuss as well as whatever else is going on. I suspect that the slate will be next year for any upgrades I am moving forward on, especially since we are in the last bit of the year. I am only hoping for a great Christmas, which I would say has come very early for me.

"CREW CHANGE"
This railroader is going to make his family very happy with the Christmas Tree he spotted along the right-of-way on his run today.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

Love it.  I have NYC engine that's getting a overhaul both cosmetically and electronically.  Hope to post in a few months.

A little work for the 4-6-6T......

Enjoy!

Peter

Just out of the shops after a rebuild. Apparently the Central experimented with cylinders that had steam inlets on one side of the piston only. This gave an odd two chuffs per revolution. Turned out to be a total disaster. This one has been returned to normal operation. Four lobe cam replaced the two lobe and Lionchief smoke unit replaced the puffer. Testing done with some strange car that landed on the Central’s track. I think they plan to use the car for a repaint to try and match the engine. So far a dozen paint jobs and they have’t succeeded yet. Computer color scanners still haven’t arrived.

Pete

Legacy Schmegacy, who needs it?

Early MTH F3 units. Nice detail. Very early Lionel PA's. Still handsome after all this time!

A thoughtful gift from my friend Bob Buehler, owner of Bob's Trains 4 U and TCA Eastern Divsion Vice President.....

Happy Easter or Happy Passover, folks!

Peter

Here's a short video that I took on one of my last visits to Marty Fitzhenry's home.

Mikados of the H6a class snort & grunt their way out of Harmon, Northbound with a heavy mixed train in tow …..

Pat

I was able to find a good deal on an early Lionel version (2004?) of an NYC Mohawk L-2a at the recent April York show.  I’ve been after one of these for a number of years, and I’m glad to have one in my collection finally. Here is a short video I put together of it running on my layout.

Anyone else have photos or a video of these brutes you would like to share?  Maybe the latest Legacy version?

@rjsmithindy posted:

I was able to find a good deal on an early Lionel version (2004?) of an NYC Mohawk L-2a at the recent April York show.  I’ve been after one of these for a number of years, and I’m glad to have one in my collection finally. Here is a short video I put together of it running on my layout.

Anyone else have photos or a video of these brutes you would like to share?  Maybe the latest Legacy version?

Darn tootin!

Thanks!

- Mario

@CentralFan1976 posted:

Darn tootin!

Thanks!

- Mario

@rjsmithindy posted:

I was able to find a good deal on an early Lionel version (2004?) of an NYC Mohawk L-2a at the recent April York show.  I’ve been after one of these for a number of years, and I’m glad to have one in my collection finally. Here is a short video I put together of it running on my layout.

Anyone else have photos or a video of these brutes you would like to share?  Maybe the latest Legacy version?

Two great videos Rob and Mario. I especially like how the tracks cut through farm country. Where I live the BR&W cuts right through the farms in the area. The reason why is because one of my late grandfather's ancestors who owned the property sold the right of way to the railroad. This allowed rail service from the Delaware River, through the two, then off into Flemington (NJ) to connect with the bigger railroad line. Somewhere in my photos is a chain of title to the property stating when the ancestor sold the property and to what railroad.

@CentralFan1976 posted:

Darn tootin!

- Mario

Great looking layout Mario - made a little better with some NYC steam !

@rjsmithindy posted:

Great looking layout Mario - made a little better with some NYC steam !

Thanks!  The O gauge layout of the CNY NRHS in Syracuse.

LMK if you’re ever in the neighborhood.

Any more Niagara NYC Classics running about? Been a bit quiet lately.

Lionel CCII TMCC Niagara. Renumbered along with a 4 lobe cam, cab curtains and brass deck plate. Gears and driveshaft replaced.

Pete

When I had mine done Pete, my deck plate was of course already broken. I had the gears done, smoke upgrade(Super Chuffer), and lights too. I kept the original sounds though but got the 4 chuffs per rev. I love the Niagara's, but not as much as Hudson's. Currently scouting for another Niagara, which will be MTH's version, just waiting a bit to see if I can find a better price for one.

Spotted on the inbound tracks at Harmon: Niagara 6025 just off the road, ……the Hostler on top of the engine has clearly found something that needs adjusting,….after coaling and a cool drink, it’s off to the wash rack and into the roundhouse for more servicing ( and fix whatever the Hostler has beat into submission) note in the background, the Empire State Express departs Northbound …..

Pat

Does this count?

NYC F3 pulling  early birds.

@harmonyards posted:

Spotted on the inbound tracks at Harmon: Niagara 6025 just off the road, ……the Hostler on top of the engine has clearly found something that needs adjusting,….after coaling and a cool drink, it’s off to the wash rack and into the roundhouse for more servicing ( and fix whatever the Hostler has beat into submission) note in the background, the Empire State Express departs Northbound …..

Pat

Pat, what happened? Did the road crews spread salt on the crossings when the snow was up? Man that engine is DIRTY! Seems like your wash crew has been slacking, haha. My wash crew are still in the box, and all the engines seem to be clean all the time. I don't know why that is(weathering, BAD!), haha.

Hey, have you ever converted an older Niagara back to an earlier one with the single headlight(is it single for the early runs)??

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Pat, what happened? Did the road crews spread salt on the crossings when the snow was up? Man that engine is DIRTY! Seems like your wash crew has been slacking, haha. My wash crew are still in the box, and all the engines seem to be clean all the time. I don't know why that is(weathering, BAD!), haha.

Hey, have you ever converted an older Niagara back to an earlier one with the single headlight(is it single for the early runs)??

Hey, have you ever converted an older Niagara back to an earlier one with the single headlight(is it single for the early runs)??

all Niagara’s started their lives with single sealed beams, they were all eventually converted to dual sealed beams ( not long before their untimely demise ) …..but to answer your question, sure, that’s a fairly simple request to accomplish….😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Hey, have you ever converted an older Niagara back to an earlier one with the single headlight(is it single for the early runs)??

all Niagara’s started their lives with single sealed beams, they were all eventually converted to dual sealed beams ( not long before their untimely demise ) …..but to answer your question, sure, that’s a fairly simple request to accomplish….😉

Pat

Ah Pat, I knew it would be. Maybe after I get things squared, I'll consider more dreams of conversions. I know I have a long laundry list to start with already, and if I do get a Niagara soon, that would just be the normal stuff. However, if I get a second one, then that would be a wind the clock back to a earlier road number and single sealed beam. I know when the VL ones were cataloged it didn't take me too long to decide on which. I had thought about a second and a single sealed beam would have been it. Considering how insane prices for VL's were to start, it was an easy "no" for trying to get another one before even gasping at the eBay prices that came out.

Like you told me, best bet is the MTH version, sold motor, good design.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Ah Pat, I knew it would be. Maybe after I get things squared, I'll consider more dreams of conversions. I know I have a long laundry list to start with already, and if I do get a Niagara soon, that would just be the normal stuff. However, if I get a second one, then that would be a wind the clock back to a earlier road number and single sealed beam. I know when the VL ones were cataloged it didn't take me too long to decide on which. I had thought about a second and a single sealed beam would have been it. Considering how insane prices for VL's were to start, it was an easy "no" for trying to get another one before even gasping at the eBay prices that came out.

Like you told me, best bet is the MTH version, sold motor, good design.

Yes, hands down the MTH Niagara ( mechanically speaking ) is literally built like a battle tank,……my opinion, and mine alone, the CCII Niagara that Lionel produced is the biggest bucket of bolts they ever let grace a catalog, …..now, when guys like Alex M, Pete, and now Lou, ( who’s a veteran of that misery now) take and upgrade those engines, they are good models, but when purchasing one, you have to take into account not only electronics upgrades, but also mechanical repairs,…..

Pat