Problems re NY Central Legacy # 2231550

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Under warranty, Lionel extended the tether, which helped,but I still had the problem this morning.

It's this simple, plug in the tether completely. I don't know if you are worried of breaking it, lack of finger dexterity, whatever, but clearly this is simple problem of not plugging in the tether fully, and then your attempt to run it and it comes unplugged.

I own one of this series 2231530 Bethlehem Steel, and the local hobby shop also has one on the shelf. So yes, with first hand knowledge, this is a difficult engine to get right, it's a wide plug tether and not the best idea out of big "L", not the best locking or latching connector system, and yes, it takes some force to FULLY seat the tether into the back of the engine. If you fail to do that step- then you are going to have a problem with it unplugging.

So again, use some force, view the tether with a magnifier if you need to to see how far it has seated into the plug and when it finally stops moving in, but it must be all the way and that takes some force.

@Vernon Barry posted:

It's this simple, plug in the tether completely. I don't know if you are worried of breaking it, lack of finger dexterity, whatever, but clearly this is simple problem of not plugging in the tether fully, and then your attempt to run it and it comes unplugged.

I own one of this series 2231530 Bethlehem Steel, and the local hobby shop also has one on the shelf. So yes, with first hand knowledge, this is a difficult engine to get right, it's a wide plug tether and not the best idea out of big "L", not the best locking or latching connector system, and yes, it takes some force to FULLY seat the tether into the back of the engine. If you fail to do that step- then you are going to have a problem with it unplugging.

So again, use some force, view the tether with a magnifier if you need to to see how far it has seated into the plug and when it finally stops moving in, but it must be all the way and that takes some force.

Thanks so much, Vernon, your advice is extremely helpful.

I may have been too gentle with the tether arrangement because the approx. 20 very fine wires comprising the tether seemed delicate. Also, there is a thin flap of plastic attached to the back of the locomotive extending to the tender just short of touching it, that is as delicate as a butterfly wing. This plastic flap is only cosmetic, hiding the tether arrangement, and reducing the access of one's fingers to insert the tether plug into the receptacle.

As I may have mentioned before, once this tether plug is fully seated, and that may have now happened, my plan is to never inplug it and keep it on the layout at all times, either on a main line or siding. Arnold

Thank you all, my fine Forum friends, for all your helpful input regarding this issue. Arnold

I’m glad y’all got this straightened out ……..good call on Rick’s part, ……sounds like Arnold’s purchasing agent on his railroad lives to see another day on the job!…glad it’s not going to be a chronic issue …..

Pat

This is a follow up regarding the problem mentioned in my original Post and Rick's solution, which was to squeeze or press the tether plug fully into the back of the locomotive receptacle ("Rick's Squeeze").

I think this issue is of particular interest to those of you who have a background in engineering, especially mechanical engineering.

This tether arrangement is flawed. This morning the locomotive stalled running through the curved section of the 2nd 022 switch, after navigating the curved section of the 1st 022 switch without stalling.

Maybe the answer is Buyer Beware if you have 031 curves, even though Lionel says on the locomotive box that it runs through 031 curves. It's possible that there is no problem running through wider curves.

When the locomotive stalled, I gave the tether arrangement the Rick squeeze, and it ran well through 031 curves again.

I will continue running it and report back, but the tether arrangement fails to lock in place like it should.

I'm no engineer, but I think this is a design flaw.

As a result, I will only use this locomotive as a Yard Goat, only running it on the sections of my layout with the easiest access.

That ain't bad, but it also ain't great.

If this problem persists, I may put it in the hands of repair expert to come up with a good long term solution to this problem so I no longer need to give it the Rick Squeeze.

Arnold

Theres an off center alignment peg on top of the male plug. Tough to see, but to my eyes this peg prevents the plug from fully going into the socket, i.e. bottoming out on the locomotive.

There is a slot on the side of the female end where you can see a gap between the face of the male plug and the back of the socket. Again, I "suspect", the plug would be difficult to remove if fully seated all the way into the socket. There is nothing to grab onto to remove the plug, and of course pulling on the wires is a no,no.

Removing the peg may allow the plug to fit in flush and provide more reliable operation

How many wires are actually in the the tether? If ten or less it could likely be replaced with an MTH tether. Not a simple task but something a warranty voider might tackle.

Pete

@Norton posted:

How many wires are actually in the the tether? If ten or less it could likely be replaced with an MTH tether. Not a simple task but something a warranty voider might tackle.

Pete

Its a 20 wire tether Pete. Your far more knowledgeable than me, but I guess this is what happens when none of the Lionel command stuff will fit in the boiler , including the antenna. Then you add a swinging bell, and power pickup.

I'm surprised we haven't seen more issues with these, maybe in a year or two. If Lionel ever lists the tether on the parts site I'll be the first one to order. I suppose they could sell out for warranty before that ever happens.

Although not attractive looking with the large loop. The way MTH did it there was certainly a lot more wire showing allowing it to flex at the top  of the loop. Not so much at the socket.
This being a MTH based engine that had a deck plate with the newer wired drawbar. By keeping the deck plate to hide the tether and loading the engine with features. They really didn’t have much choice in how to run a tether. I’m wondering if you could enlarge the opening a bit for the socket and maybe hog out the mounting holes of the PCB Socket allowing it to move freely and follow the tether taking some of the strain off of it.

And here I thought it was all peaches & cream in Arnold’s little world,…..let’s see a better picture of the tether not plugged into the engine if we can …….

Pat

@Arnold D. Cribari this may not be an appealing solution but I bought a used Legacy b6 and that pesky tether would go out every third turn. I ended up buying some of the Loctite Ultra Gel control glue. I plugged my tether in and then very carefully added a dab of glue to fireman and engineer's side of the tether. I mean tiny dab. You can't even see it without a flashlight. That tether hasn't come apart since then and I've moved it off the track multiple times. It's a pain because you're stuck with an attached tender but it makes things able to run and it could be taken apart if you scraped the glue dab off with a flathead screwdriver or razor blade.

I haven't had to do this on my 0-6-0 yet but I also don't have any tight turns to run it on yet. It's destined to work a short stretch of track that will have tight turns though so maybe trouble is in my future.

@harmonyards posted:

And here I thought it was all peaches & cream in Arnold’s little world,…..let’s see a better picture of the tether not plugged into the engine if we can …….

Pat

Great idea Harmonyyards, but as long as Sally the Yard Goat (the name of my Legacy NY Central System 0-6-0) keeps running through my 031 curves, like it's done during the last few minutes, no way am I disconnecting the tether plug from the receptacle to take photos of same.

Last time it stalled, I gave it the Rick Squeeze, and it ran well through the 031 curves again.

As long as Sally the Yard Goat continues to be responsive to the Rick Squeeze, I ain't unplugging the tether arrangement. LOL, Arnold

@BillYo414 posted:

@Arnold D. Cribari this may not be an appealing solution but I bought a used Legacy b6 and that pesky tether would go out every third turn. I ended up buying some of the Loctite Ultra Gel control glue. I plugged my tether in and then very carefully added a dab of glue to fireman and engineer's side of the tether. I mean tiny dab. You can't even see it without a flashlight. That tether hasn't come apart since then and I've moved it off the track multiple times. It's a pain because you're stuck with an attached tender but it makes things able to run and it could be taken apart if you scraped the glue dab off with a flathead screwdriver or razor blade.

I haven't had to do this on my 0-6-0 yet but I also don't have any tight turns to run it on yet. It's destined to work a short stretch of track that will have tight turns though so maybe trouble is in my future.

Very interesting, Bill, but at this point I'm going with Yard Goat duty exclusively for a Sally with an occasional Rick Squeeze. Arnold

I have to agree with Rick about the deck plate. Arnold, from the looks of things you have the deck plate under the front lip of where the tender shell meets the chassis. I’m no expert but isn’t it supposed to be on top of that lip so “one could walk across from the cab to the tender”? If Lionel extended the tether you should have enough slack to not put so much tension on that 20 pin connector. However, it still is a tricky connection to make. Hope this helps.

Ezmike, you make an interesting observation about the delicate deck plate.

I don't think that deck plate is the cause of my problem, but the deck plate is arguably another slight design flaw. The flaw is that the deck plate might be better if it was slightly longer.

Take a look at this short video:

Underneath the tether, I have the drawbar in the slot farthest from the tender, where it should be so the locomotive and tender navigate my 031 curves. In that slot, the delicate deck plate does not quite reach the narrow platform in the front of the tender so the deck plate droops, but I don't believe the deck plate, which is attached to the locomotive, puts any pressure on the tether plug or locomotive receptacle.

I think the deck plate is entirely cosmetic. I could remove it, but don't because I like the fact that it hides the tether arrangement. Arnold

Geeeezzzz,……that is a dumb tether arrangement, …..I can see it in your video Arnold, …..I can see why it’s  flaky as puff pastry, …..not only is it ginormous wide, adding a strain, it also has to make a near 45 degree climb to get to the engine,…..so strain in two plains, …..nice!,……🤮

Pat

I want to be perfectly clear about my Sally the Yard Goat.

This is no put down of Lionel.

I love my Sally the Yard Goat, despite her flaws, and I'm glad she's mine, and grateful to Lionel for making her.

I felt the opposite yesterday, but thanks to the advice I got on this thread, particularly from Rick, I have had a complete change of heart.

Another thing: I like the fact that out of necessity, I plan on having Sally serve exclusively as a Yard Goat on my layout. I'm OK with that and, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Maybe I'm a hopeless optimistic, better yet, a cock-eyed optimist (that expression is from the great musical, South Pacific, by Rogers & Hammerstein.

However, I can appreciate and empathize with others who would be upset with having a locomotive that's supposed to run well through 031 curves, but occasionally stalls when doing so.

Would I prefer Sally to be flawless like my other modern switchers? Absolutely!

Arnold

I wonder if Lionel tested it on Fastrack and your tubular track is a bit tight at points, causing the stalling?  Tubular track is much more subject to slight distortions of this sort, I'd think.  You could test this hypothesis by measuring the rail to rail outer rail distance of different sections of your track and seeing if there is variation in the width, and if the stalling occurs at these points.

@Landsteiner posted:

I wonder if Lionel tested it on Fastrack and your tubular track is a bit tight at points, causing the stalling?  Tubular track is much more subject to slight distortions of this sort, I'd think.  You could test this hypothesis by measuring the rail to rail outer rail distance of different sections of your track and seeing if there is variation in the width, and if the stalling occurs at these points.

Interesting, Landsteiner, I doubt if Lionel tested it on O31 Postwar tubular track curves like mine.

I have many modern Lionel and MTH locomotives that were advertised as good for 031 curves, and they have all run well on 031 curves  except for an MTH Susquehanna PS 2 or 3 diesel that is 18 inches long.  However, the problem with that diesel was derailments, not stalling, on the 031 curves.

So, I have never had this stalling problem before. Arnold

Arnold

I believe this connector or one very much like it is what is used here. They were designed for harness to board connections. They were not meant for connections that are subject to flex. There are no locking tabs, rather its just a friction fit. The width of the connector allows more leverage on each end to pull it out.

Pete