PS3 with strange startup

Bob,

Can't say why, however, your engine is missing the watchdog signal. See if it behaves the same way on a different part of the layout, preferably an isolated siding.

I have had the exact same thing happen with one of my (new) PS3/RailKing engines as well.  I set it aside for the time being because I don't feel qualified to fuss with it, so will be interested in seeing the responses this thread gets.

Thanks Barry,

Your reply got me to re-read your book's write-up on the watchdog signal and do some experimenting. I do apply power from my Z4K very quickly (under a second to 18V - handle straight up).

I did discover another cure. I've always powered my TIU through the AUX power port with a separate 18V power supply. If I disconnect that and then startup from the Z4K only, the Chapelon does behave as it should (goes into stealth). If I reconnect the separate power and then startup from the Z4K it misses the watchdog.

I'm just testing on a short test track (about 5 ft.) with another PS3 on the same track which does behave normally on startup with or without the AUX power input. I've tried it without the other loco and the behavior is the same.

Thanks for your help,

Bob

The WD should come out of the individual channel when it receives power on it's input side, that would be exclusive of the aux power.  I power the aux power, and I've never seen anything miss the WD when I flip on the PH180 bricks, even if the TIU has been on for some time through the aux power.

Thanks John -- Same with me for years with my other locos. I hardly ever turn off the AUX power transformer. Never had trouble with watchdog before.   I don't know why the AUX power is related for this new loco.  -- Bob

Well, it's certainly odd, don't know why that should be happening, but it sure sounds like that particular locomotive has some issue.

Thanks  for the replies!  I now have a theory for what's happening. 

I think the processor in the Chapelon may boot a little slowly. The TIU sends the Watchdog before the Chapelon is listening. Removing the Aux Power input makes the TIU delay sending the signal by a little bit. (It now has to boot before it sends the signal.) With that little delay, the Chapelon is listening when the signal is sent.

Or maybe I'm full of bologna.

Bob

The WD comes out for a few seconds, so it's surprising that it could take that long to be listening.  You'd think that MTH would understand those limitations.  I'll be a bit surprised if it turns out to be that, but you never know.

I suspect you may be right.  I'll have to try it with the one PS3 engine I have that is exhibiting the same symptoms (none of my other PS3 or PS2 engines have ever had that same problem).  I also use a Z4000, and power the TIU through Aux. power with a Z500 or Z750 brick.

So this leads to the question: Is it a good idea (safe) to connect the AUX power after starting from the Z400 (on Fixed IN1) and all the locos are sitting in stealth mode?

The other theory could be the PS-3 is more sensitive to DCS signal strength and your TIU may have a signal strength issue.  What is interesting is the issue of Aux versus Fix1 power.

Just out of curiosity does this PS-3 behave the same regardless of which TIU channel is being used?  G

My new GS 4 Daylight ps3 engine does the same thing.  None of my other PS3 engines exhibit this behavior.  In my case it starts up in conventional around 15 seconds after power is applied to the track.

Goodness, it seems to be an epidemic!

Jon,

You'd think that MTH would understand those limitations

What in the world are you taking about? There are no "limitations" - the engine is defective and should be replaced or returned to MTH for a warranty repair.

kbtt,

Is it a good idea (safe) to connect the AUX power after starting from the Z400 (on Fixed IN1) and all the locos are sitting in stealth mode?

No, it's probably not a good idea, since doing so swaps power for the TIU from Fixed #1 to the Aux. Power port. This could possibly cause a reboot of the TIU, which could mess with engines that are powered up.

Everyone else,

If you have an engine that exhibits this anomaly, which it most certainly should not, it is defective and is an indication that it should be repaired before it, possibly, becomes completely unable to process a watchdog signal at all.

Just my 2 cents...

That was my initial read Barry, it's odd that more than one person has seen it.  Perhaps this is just something for a few that has slipped by.

I get this response with both my PS2 and my one PS3 engines. If I switch on the power with the MRC Pure Power Dual rocker with the handle on full they catch the WD. If I use a toggle on the siding they are on they start up. I just hit the startup button and all is normal. However, if I don't hit startup soon enough on the PS3, it takes off and I have to cut power and start over. Everything else is fine when I get them out of that funk. Usually the problem only shows up when I use the toggle switch.

          John

In your toggle switch example, it sounds like the TIU channel has already got power.  So, in that case, there will be no WD if you wait more than a couple of seconds after the TIU channel has input power.  This sounds perfectly normal.

The WD only comes out for a few seconds when input power is applied to a specific TIU input.  After that, any train that suddenly receives power from that channel by a toggle or other connection will not see the WD.

John,

In that case there's something wrong either the transformer or the engine.

I also noticed  that your transformer is not on the list of those approved for use with DCS, at least in my copy of the manual.

I don't understand your comment Barry.

When he starts with powering up the TIU channel with the transformer, it all works as intended and all the engines see the WD.

When he powers up a siding with a toggle taking power from a an already powered TIU channel, he won't get a WD.

Where's the problem?  That sounds like normal operation to me, and I can duplicate it here with any transformer.

OH, FWIW, the MRC transformer was specifically mentioned when I was at MTH as being a problem with certain installations, so that may be part of the issue.