Given all of the activity regarding the purchase of MTH dies in the other scales, has any manufacturer purchased the MTH/Lionel Tinplate dies from MTH?
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The general opinion seems to be no.
The tinplate tooling is not for sale. Mike plans to produce it himself.
Scott Smith
@scott.smith posted:The tinplate tooling is not for sale. Mike plans to produce it himself.
Scott Smith
Scott,
Thanks! That makes sense, as tinplate was one of Mike's first "favorites" in the model railroading hobby, as I recall.
@scott.smith posted:The tinplate tooling is not for sale. Mike plans to produce it himself.
Scott Smith
Hey Scott, we've heard horror stories about the Chinese selling tools for scrap in the past, maybe just urban legends - do we know exactly what remains of all the tooling Mike paid for (and the Chinese are holding?)
Jim
oh my,,hope they find those subway dies,,,,,,,ya right,,,still hold that against mike,,,,,dang
@Jim Waterman posted:Hey Scott, we've heard horror stories about the Chinese selling tools for scrap in the past, maybe just urban legends - do we know exactly what remains of all the tooling Mike paid for (and the Chinese are holding?)
Jim
I assure you Mike knows. Keep in mind he spent large portions of time each year monitoring his investment and production quality.
Scott Smith
@scott.smith posted:I assure you Mike knows. Keep in mind he spent large portions of time each year monitoring his investment and production quality.
Scott Smith
As a long-time buyer of MTH trains and a satisfied customer, I'm not surprised to learn that Mike spent large amounts of his time monitoring MTH production quality.
MELGAR
@scott.smith posted:The tinplate tooling is not for sale. Mike plans to produce it himself.
@Jim Waterman posted:Hey Scott, we've heard horror stories about the Chinese selling tools for scrap in the past, maybe just urban legends - do we know exactly what remains of all the tooling Mike paid for (and the Chinese are holding?)
@scott.smith posted:I assure you Mike knows. Keep in mind he spent large portions of time each year monitoring his investment and production quality.
Since I'm not privy to any inside info but really like reproduction tinplate, here are my thoughts...
One one level, the comments above make sense - MW seems to have a soft spot in his heart for tinplate, and doesn't seem ready to completely walk away. I hope that everything is in good hands, just waiting for the right moment.
On another level, I'm not so sure...
1) Even if Mike carefully monitors the possession of the dies, they're thousands of miles away in a country where the concepts of intellectual property and ownership are "flexible".
2) IMO, using the dies to produce tinplate in China would be a lot of management work (almost as much as producing everything?), so why would he retire and then continue with producing for a sliver of the train market?
3) Since it's such a small subset of the market with low production numbers, could he produce tinplate at a price that would generate enough sales?
4) It seems that a big factor in curtailing production of tinplate was because the market was saturated - how many more paint schemes for a 400E will people buy? Unless different items are produced, which would require a lot of work and expense, is there enough of a market? I'm guessing not.
And then there's parts...
MTH did get samples of new 400E frames just prior to closing (I inspected them). I was told that when and if they produce tinplate, it will likely only be 384’s and 400E’s which were the best sellers. You likely won’t see anymore Ives, Dorfan and AF locos from MTH because the demand vs. cost is just not there.
@Jon G posted:MTH did get samples of new 400E frames just prior to closing (I inspected them). I was told that when and if they produce tinplate, it will likely only be 384’s and 400E’s which were the best sellers. You likely won’t see anymore Ives, Dorfan and AF locos from MTH because the demand vs. cost is just not there.
I would think a series of 384 engines could be a homerun. They run great, pull well, and go with almost anything.
@Jon G posted:MTH did get samples of new 400E frames just prior to closing (I inspected them). I was told that when and if they produce tinplate, it will likely only be 384’s and 400E’s which were the best sellers. You likely won’t see anymore Ives, Dorfan and AF locos from MTH because the demand vs. cost is just not there.
Appreciate the info.
Unfortunately, reducing the range of product won't help the marketability of repro tinplate.
I wonder how much of the demand for those engines is driven by @Jim Waterman's need for donors to build his masterpieces? (Maybe they should be offered in primed/undecorated?)
What is reason why MIKE never produced a reproduction of the LIBERTY LINES 600E locomotive?
Was the Tinplate produced in China or Korea?
@OGRNorman posted:What is reason why MIKE never produced a reproduction of the LIBERTY LINES 600E locomotive?
Look at the MTH tinplate line, there are none with 6 wheel drivers. There were two in the works and someone beat them to it. Had they actually made those two locomotives I am sure there would have been others.
Scott Smith
@Bill DeBrooke posted:Was the Tinplate produced in China or Korea?
At one time or another, both places, I believe.
With the way inflation is taking off any possible future production will most likely come at a substantial price increase.
I appreciate and treasure what I have now.
I would think the patents belong to LIONEL and the agreement with MTH is over. Maybe Lionel got the equipment or dibs on production. Just my thoughts.
Mike was making tinplate long before the Lionel Corporation Tinplate licensing. The tooling is MTH's.
Rusty
As far as I know that is correct, pretty sure Mr. Wolfe got the rights to use the Lionel name on the tinplate reproductions he was already producing. That was part of the lawsuit settlement. When the litigated licensing time frame expired, the price Lionel wanted to renew the agreement was listed as a major obstacle to future production and pretty much ensured the end of LCT.
I would be highly surprised if he let's control of that tooling go to anyone who isn't planning on using it soon. On top of that the market was pretty saturated as discussed. My interpretation of this is that there will not be any movement on the tinplate tooling for a few years, but what do I know?
I really wish we could have seen some updates to the tinplate line to gain more interest. A camelback or a Pacific seemed like a natural fit, or a mallet made from the guts of a pair of 263e engines would have been huge.
Time will tell. I wish Mr. Wolfe well and I hope for success of the next phase of MTH in the post-Wolfe era.
