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    Good afternoon,

    Re: Converting a MTH PS1 Diesel to TMCC RailSounds with Legacy Command Control

    Does anyone know which type of female connector is used to connect the couplers to the ERR V4.1 Cruise Commander Upgrade Board?

    I am using the MTH Smoke Unit that has both a heating element and the separate fan/blower motor. I have looked almost everywhere to find the best way to run these with the Cruise Commander. I contacted 3rd Rail as the installation manual references using a helper board in several places. I haven't been able to find any information on these. They referred me back to the forum, they are licensed by Lionel but not a end user of the product so his knowledge is limited to what he sees in various discussions. Will you please point me in the right direction?

   Also is there a way to add more lighting circuits to use, either with the Cruise Commander, or possibly a second board using TMCC I want to be able to add ditch lights and possibly a strobe at some point?

   Any help would be very much appreciated,

  Carl

Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177
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The coupler connectors are JST-EH family, readily available at Digikey.

The MTH smoke unit you're speaking of is the Protosound 1 self-contained smoke unit, just connect it's power to the feature output of the Cruise Commander.

For ditch lights, you can consider the Lionel AD-20B board, it receives serial data and has the ditch light outputs.  The +5V DC is tapped off the R4LC on the Cruise Commander for the AD-20B board.

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  Thank's for the quick reply. Can you be more specific on the JST Female Wire connector? Their are many O Gauge Forum Responders that never name the actual item, just a family of Mini Micro JST connectors? Hence the original question: what are they? They are definitely not the 2 Pin  JST Mini Micro 2.0 or the 2.54 I am using those on our layout and accessories.... so they probably might be or are ???

  Thanks' for the part number on the Lionel Ditch Light board. I am beginning to think Shopping Lionel is like ordering Pixie Dust or maybe searching for Pixie Dust...or maybe doing something else with Pixie Dust...Many hours after you search "Lionel part number AD20B", you find out that Lionel superseded it with three other Lionel part numbers... which after more searching you find out that they are no longer available to purchase, that that part that has been discontinued and is no longer manufactured by Lionel.... Pixie Dust!

  Thank's for the quick reply. Can you be more specific on the JST Female Wire connector? Their are many O Gauge Forum Responders that never name the actual item, just a family of Mini Micro JST connectors? Hence the original question: what are they? They are definitely not the 2 Pin  JST Mini Micro 2.0 or the 2.54 I am using those on our layout and accessories.... so they probably might be or are ???

JST EHR-2 on Digikey.

JST SEH-001T-P0.6 EH pins on Digikey.

Thanks' for the part number on the Lionel Ditch Light board. I am beginning to think Shopping Lionel is like ordering Pixie Dust or maybe searching for Pixie Dust...or maybe doing something else with Pixie Dust...Many hours after you search "Lionel part number AD20B", you find out that Lionel superseded it with three other Lionel part numbers... which after more searching you find out that they are no longer available to purchase, that that part that has been discontinued and is no longer manufactured by Lionel.... Pixie Dust!

Funny, I entered AD20 and did a search, this is an available part on the Lionel Parts Site

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    Thank you for the quick response! Digi-key EHR-2 connectors on the way...

    I didn't mean to be rude, there is no excuse for my response, it was a very long day. Please forgive me. I am new to trains so this part of the hobby, "locating parts" is quite frustrating to me for a hobby that is so much fun.

  My Legacy 900 Command arrived yesterday already programmed by the previous owner with Locomotives and Engines etc. so I have been reading the manual for instructions on how to remove them and program my Engine into the system. Meanwhile my engine is still on the bench waiting to be test run....

  How exactly are you getting to the Lionel Parts site? I have been searching for the AD20, AD20A, AD20B, AD20-200 for two days to no avail. Then I started searching for a Lionel expanded replacement parts list for a Diesel Engine that uses the AD20B and found the part, it's Part number, the price, and not available?

  I'm beginning to think Win 10 or Google might have something to do with Pixie Dust...

Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177

  You are amazing! Thank you!

  I followed your instructions to the Lionel Parts List and searched "Product Part Number or Name" for the AD20 as I have been doing all along - Nothing! Exactly the same result that I was getting every time I ended up on that page in my searches!

  I knew I must have missed something  as you plainly showed me that you could find them. I went back and clicked "Replacement Part Number or Name" BINGO!!! Lionel Part Number AD20 superseded 691PCB1012 available and in stock!! Wow! I didn't think I could be that stupid! One is on it's way to me now!!!

  Another question. If you don't mind, the MTH Proto Sound 1 Forward/Reverse Board has the coupler wire's connected in series, on the Lionel TMCC Board each EHR-2 coupler has two pins for the front and rear coupler. Do I remove the series cross over wire and connect both wires independently to the corresponding connector on the TMCC Board?

Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177

   Update- I managed to get the Legacy Controller charged and operating properly - very steep learning curve mind you. I have much to learn...

    I Put the Engine on the tracks to test run her while I am waiting for the coupler connectors and to do a little house keeping before final assembly...Everything works first time out, I can run her in conventual and TMCC mode. Everything looks, runs, and sounds great! ERR Instructions are complete and easy to follow.

   I have two questions though....

  My headlight gets bright when the track power gets higher and shuts off as it gets low.  Low Voltage = 9V High Voltage = 18V.  Is the voltage output on PIN 4 Constant or variable? If it is variable what is the solution to keep the headlight bright if I want to run in conventual mode?

  The ERR RailSounds speaker that came with the RailSounds likes to randomly crackle a bit is this normal? (I have the optional 9VDC battery connected).

   The dental pic was useful in routing wires separately under and around the heat sink and motors. I also used it to spread open the jaws on the smaller screw terminals. When finished the RailSounds Board will sit atop the R4LC-C08 TMCC Board leaving the area in front of it available for adding a optional smoke unit and a Ditch Light Board.

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Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177

  Nice! Thank you!

  I had converting to LED's front and rear on the back burner for now. SOoooo I'm adding them to the current list of to-do's along with the AD20B that arrived in yesterday's mail.

  I talked to Scott @ 3rd Rail about the squelchy nasty soundy speaker thingy. He suggested mounting the original MTH speaker to see if that fixed the noise which it did instantly. Thanks' Scott. Sounds are Perfect!

  It's a windy rainy nasty day here today. Time to play with the trains   time to get started on the to do's.... She's coming along quite nicely

  P.S. I found this valuable tidbit from TAS, Their AD20B instruction sheet for anyone that is following along with this installation...

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Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177

   Good evening John,

   I can use some of your help again. I converted the Shell lights to 16V grain of Wheat Bulbs today to replace the MTH LED's and mounted the cab for a test run. I had programmed the CC unit to option 8 after the first startup way back in the beginning but did not hook the lights up. I read a previous post about a warning about the MTH LED's and half wave 18V output from the CC hurting the board without a current limiting device. I also knew that I needed a solution to add the ditch lights so I saved all of the lights for last.

   I do not have any lights at all. Testing the output(s) I'm getting 14.65V to the smoke unit when switched on, .084V to the front and rear lights respectively, 4.953V to the Chuff and 4.953V to the program run switch with the engine rolling in either direction. I followed another operator with posts about his lights along the same line as mine to no avail.

   I tried to reset the engine R4LC to code 6 to see if that helped. It didn't. I touched base with Scott ERR and he said to run it in conventual mode and then reset the Command Code to see if that worked. When I put it on the tracks in conventual mode all of the lights work correctly, front and rear, smoke too. But not in the command environment. I am sure it's 100% operator error. Are the instructions to program my Cab 2 the same instructions you would use to program a Cab 1 ? What am I missing here?

Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177

I have a Lionel Command C-420 6-18587.  I have it setup the same TMCC-->RS. The AUX 2 for lights and Smoke work correctly on that model. Of course It has different electronics than the CC...

I have tried setting TMCC-->RS and CAB1-->RS as well. Still no lights. I haven't tried Legacy or R100.  AUX 2 Blows the horn. The lights flicker when I program the CC and press set. Other than that no lights.

I was reading to see if the feature set was possibly entered wrong and wanted to reset it and ended up more confused than I was last night.

Can the R4LC Board be the cause of the problem?

   Thank you John,

  Susanne and I are heading down to Dale's in the morning, they are a Lionel Dealer. I will see if she has a replacement C08-S1, or we can test this one while we are there. I'm just not at the point to commit to converting the other two engines to ERR until I get the lights and ditch lights fully functional on this engine. What's really weird to me is the lights are functional in conventual mode...

I'll see if Chris can take a look at this board, it looks like it had rework done around D1 up to U8, there may still be a small solder bridge right there...

I will update when I get home tomorrow...

  Follow up:

  I am converting all of my MTH engines to the TMCC Cruise Commanders, so I went ahead and ordered a second unit from Scott @ ERR for my next Diesel upgrade, I used it to replace the first Cruise Commander complete with the R4LC. The installation went smooth and the Engine quickly accepted the Code 8 after programming it as Engine 1 with no issues. The Engine runs like a top and sounds great! Scott had me return the first CC and the R4LC for warranty review or repair. He certainly does stand behind his products.

  I had a chance to talk to Roy of Royz trains about using his LED Conversion kits to replace the 16V bulbs that are in my Engines. He recommended using a Mini Commander EX for the Ditch Lights on this Engine, and by programming it to the same address as the Cruise Commander it shows up as the same engine in the Cab-2L. I am definitely going to give this a Go! in the meantime I ordered his LED light kit and installed it in this Engine all I can say about the realism is Wow!

  Thank you John, Scott, and Roy for all the hardware, advise and support,

   Carl

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