Question? Which Post War Lionel Showroom Layout would you recreate?

I like both the 1949 layout and the 1957 Super O layout so it's a tough choice. I would be very happy with either one. If I had the room, time and ability I think I would go with the 1949 layout.

I did consider a remake of the 1949 Showroom Layout when I started to plan my present endeavor.  I have the same room available, and enjoy the video TM put out about it, plus book articles and pics I have.  But, I really wanted to have more levels and more involved track plan.  Boy!!!!  LOL!!!   If one is more into landscaping and scenery, a remake of the Prewar layout is the way to go.  Do not have to replicate with T rail, but using Atlas, or what you want, it is a good way to run trains, if you are a loop runner.  The Super O from the 50s is a really good one, also.  But, not to any "prototypical" actions.  Again, Lionel did not build any of them to be "prototypical, did they?  So...…   How about one with a little of each from the different eras?  The best and best functional of each?  Hmmmmmm……..

Jesse  TCA

Big John Henry posted:

If I had the space, money and time I would recreate the 1949 layout but use Atlas O track because Lionel did not have the vision to remake Super O track in a variety of radii.

Even as a child I never appreciated the Super O showroom layout. It appeared to be to futuristic for me' But I love Super O track. I only use Atlas because Lionel did not remake Super O. IMHO Atlas O only exist because Lionel did not remake Super O. I ran trains on Super O from 1970 until 1985 when the O72 switches became available and I switched to O gauge. I never had a roller problem.

I appreciate Brian Miller and his wife sharing their accomplishment with us.

I love your idea of the 1949 layout plan in Atlas O track.....what a spectacular idea!

Peter

I love Super O but was not a fan of the circa 1957-1964 Super O layout.  The emphasis seemed to be more on the modern era scenery/structures rather than the trains.  The 1949 layout in my opinion showcased the trains even with the spectacular layout so my vote would go there.  I wish I had had the opportunity to see it in person.   I would also have to say that the pre-war layout with the T-Rail track has piqued my interest as well.  I really would like to construct a layout with T-Rail track but don't have the room or the funds to purchase T-Rail and all of its peripherals.

I would model the 1949 Lionel Showroom layout.  I did see the replicated layout in Jackson, MS in 1993 and have some film pictures of it somewhere.

I would modify it to make it a more "operating layout" and add features to keep up long term operating interest of me the owner and my operators.  Showroom layouts like this one are set up to just run several trains on individual loops and are interesting for and hour or so with minimal operating issues.  This layouts loops do disappear and are not just ovals. 

I would modify the diagram to have several switches to allow trains to navigate into several loops.  I would also rig up the layout to allow more than one train to operate on one loop via conventional control relayed blocks or modern remote engine control with a constant voltage on the tracks. 

I would also have an operating turntable and roundhouse and detail that area better. 

I would find space to add a few sidings to allow storage of a few trains.  Several uncoupling tracks would be added and a few more operating accessories.

I would also have a mystery white SW-1 switcher.

Charlie

On topic but a request: does anyone have the photo that was published in (I don't remember where) that showed one of them that had Cowen in behind the layout and to me the important part: it showed the benchwork in front with the Lionel Arch Brigde benchwork that was recently (10 years ago) made as a model?

I've spent quite a long time looking at every site that I can find with no luck, but I know that I saw the photo.

Please don't respond unless you know where I can find the image since I don't want to distract from the theme of this thread.  You can email me

thanks - walt

With out question the 1949 New York showroom layout. Loved looking at pictures of it as a kid. Don

walt rapp posted:

On topic but a request: does anyone have the photo that was published in (I don't remember where) that showed one of them that had Cowen in behind the layout and to me the important part: it showed the benchwork in front with the Lionel Arch Brigde benchwork that was recently (10 years ago) made as a model?

I've spent quite a long time looking at every site that I can find with no luck, but I know that I saw the photo.

Please don't respond unless you know where I can find the image since I don't want to distract from the theme of this thread.  You can email me

thanks - walt

Walt, I'm curious if either of these are similar to what you are asking for?

The 1949 layout, no question the best.

Walt, is this the shot? Don

I also like the prewar T rail layout....  But between the two postwar layouts, I would say the 1948 version.

JD2035: First, thanks.  The layout was a BIG one.  THe arch was like your 2nd picture but was shown along with the layout itself.  As to the 2 drawings, I don't actually remember the layout itself.

Scale Rail: no, because it doesn't show the Lionel Arch Bridge benchwork.  But I do remember him wearing a suit, but then I guess they always had them on.

If only I could remember where I saw the picture.  I went through all of my old issues of CTT and OGR, and also went on-line and looked thru EVERY issue of the Quarterly.  I couldn't find it.  The only reason that I would like to find it is that I have a nephew (40, not a child) is has always been a huge Lionel and PW fan.  Nothing but Lionel for him, that's for sure.  

One year I went to York and Trainworks, I think, was featuring its version of the Lionel Arch Bridge on display.  For Christmas that year I talked his Mom, my sister, into getting it for him and she did.  Can't tell you how much he loves it.

So I wanted to show him the Lionel Showroom picture with that bridge as the benchwork.  I know he would print it and wouldn't doubt frame it too !!!

As always, thanks for pitching in.

- walt

Perhaps I missed it being mentioned in my quick reading of this thread, but there is a long article documenting a recent re-creation of the 1949 layout by one family,  and a newly drawn track plan of the 1949 layout in the May 2019 issue of Classic Toy Trains.

Walt Rapp - Perhaps the photo you are thinking of is the construction of the 1957 layout ?  In the CTT special issue Lionel's Showroom Layouts, there is a photo on page 88 of numerous worker on top of the 1957 layout while under construction. In the same photo a worker is shown holding a portion of the arch bridge that was along one of the layouts edges.  This same photo may have also appeared in regular issue of CTT, would have to double check on that.

Big John Henry posted:

If I had the space, money and time I would recreate the 1949 layout but use Atlas O track because Lionel did not have the vision to remake Super O track in a variety of radii.

Even as a child I never appreciated the Super O showroom layout. It appeared to be to futuristic for me' But I love Super O track. I only use Atlas because Lionel did not remake Super O. IMHO Atlas O only exist because Lionel did not remake Super O. I ran trains on Super O from 1970 until 1985 when the O72 switches became available and I switched to O gauge. I never had a roller problem.

I appreciate Brian Miller and his wife sharing their accomplishment with us.

I would use the 1949 layout plan, with maybe a few changes here and there, with GarGraves track and Ross switches, to build an ultimate layout.  That would be a great layout!   I could live with that for a long time!

The 1949 showroom layout is a huge factor in what caused “The Great 3Rail Model Train Epidemic”, that is still running rampant in our world today. Yes, the love of those trains we received as children of the 1940’s 50’s, 60’s, 70’s etc., is why we wanted to build that Dream Layout when We grew up......The 1949 Layout with the scenery and nice track design really was a factor when I built my present layout. Although I modified the design with Gargraves/Ross/Atlas O Trackage with wider diameter curves, it’s similar.   Yes, we can dream.....Great thread, Happy Railroading.

Big John Henry posted:

If I had the space, money and time I would recreate the 1949 layout but use Atlas O track because Lionel did not have the vision to remake Super O track in a variety of radii.

Even as a child I never appreciated the Super O showroom layout. It appeared to be to futuristic for me' But I love Super O track. I only use Atlas because Lionel did not remake Super O. IMHO Atlas O only exist because Lionel did not remake Super O. I ran trains on Super O from 1970 until 1985 when the O72 switches became available and I switched to O gauge. I never had a roller problem.

I appreciate Brian Miller and his wife sharing their accomplishment with us.

I think you nailed it here, for me anyway. Not sure you can get much better than what you have already selected. I don't know a lot about the Super O track, but I am a big fan of the Atlas O track and the 1949 layout. Being retired, I think I have the time, but the space and money would certainly be a big problem for me. However, it's great that someone could recreate it and then also be kind enough to share it with us.

scale rail posted:

With out question the 1949 New York showroom layout. Loved looking at pictures of it as a kid. Don

I count 15 die cast truck/steel frame cars behind those pre-magnetraction 2333’s. Maybe both A’s are powered? Did those F3’s really pull that train, or was this only publicity? 

My family and I visited the Lionel Showroom every year from 1956 until it closed in 1963. My only recollection is of the 1957 Super O layout. I thought that layout was incredible. What made it so good was trying to follow the route of any one of the 7 trains running on the layout. Trains disappeared into a mountain, and other slipped below ground and reappeared on the other side of the layout. They were not just concentric loops. The real water in the river was also a very neat feature.

I was too young to remember the 1949 Lionel showroom layout but remember the 1957 layout, visiting there in its last few years with my dad.  If I had more room, time and money I would have like to have recreated it but I already have a 14' x 28' layout. The 57 layout was huge and had a control booth with four ZW transformers. Seven sets would run simultaneously  and most often show the new products of the season. I do recall mountains, stations, a few structures and a bunch of accessories but there was not a town or city that I can remember.  While the layouts main purpose was to advertise and promote new products, I found it fun going these to see it run. AFAIK when it was taken down the layout was warehoused and later on scrapped. The 60's were a tough time for Lionel as the overall toy market was expanding widely, offering more choices (like slot cars) and shifting to other products. By 1969 Lionel was sold off and the now grown up baby boomers  rekindled  interest in their childhood hobby. Had Lionel waited it out they would have been the beneficiary of the new market.  Instead they opted to open Lionel Kiddie City stores and went bust!

Didn't realize the 1957 layout was all that large? Running 7 trains at once makes it sound pretty big, and interesting too. Maybe I have it mixed up with something else here?

Great thread.  I'd love to see more pictures/track plan of the T-Rail layout... and the TV Commercial layout from the 70's too!

Jon

I might like the 49 layout because that was the year that I was born, and the catalog cover was super cool.  But, alas, I never saw it.  Having lived in Brooklyn me and my friend would go to the showroom, but all we ever saw was the 1950's layout.  That layout amazed me and showed me possibilities I never would have thought possible otherwise.

It was a dream layout.  Looking at the plans for the 49 layout certainly show a great conception there.  The showroom brought to life the many things that I otherwise would have only seen in the catalog.  We would also enjoy certain promotional days there like the showing of promo films.

One day me and my friend went on one of our random trips to the showroom only to have the guard at the front door (I'd never seen one there before) tell us that the showroom was closed.  That was like telling me there was no Christmas.  I just stared at him in disbelief.  I wanted to go in and see for myself that it was actually gone.  I was shocked for days.  I never could have imagined that this could ever come to pass.  It was like all of a sudden the Empire State Building came up missing.  I had a slow recovery and would chalk it up to one of life's experiences on the way to adulthood (which I'm still fighting).

Despite the psych trauma it still engenders fond memories.

Alan

BTW, I'd be quite content with either one.

Looked through and read a few of my books for info on the pre-war layout with T-Rail.  Didn't locate what I was looking for, but remember the Pre-war had scenes of different areas of the nation's wonders.  One scene was of Niagara Falls, one the Grand Canyon, Yosemite and the Veil Falls, and last of, I believe, the Royal Gorge.  All done with T-Rail and pre-war equipment.  Someone please correct me if not accurate in my memory.  Now, the track pattern for the "1949" layout was first tracked with T-rail, completely.  In 1946 Lionel switched out the T-rail for O gauge tubular and, naturally, began putting in the newer accessories and structures.  This continued up until the well known "1949" layout was in the showroom.  Frank Ellison built many items for the 1946 era layout, including the roundhouse and turntable, according to information I was able to find in one of my books.  A furniture factory he built, located close to the roundhouse, was changed out for the better known lumber yard and JLC factory.  I will continue to look for a publication I have showing more information and details concerning the Pre-war T-rail layout.  

Hope this is helpful, and publication information is accurate.

Jesse   TCA