Railroad Museum (Strasburg pa) GG1 moved?!

GG1 4877 posted:

"Old Rivets" is a rail fan generated term.  To be technical, the plan is restore the 4800 back to it's original number of 4899.  It was designated a National Mechanical Historic Landmark by the ASME as 4800.

As many will recall, the lone PRR R (a 4-8-4 rigid frame electric) numbered 4800 was built in Altoona in1934 as the PRR was sure that their home design would best the Baldwin design based on the New Haven EP3.  When testing at Claymont was complete, the GG1 proved to be the superior design and it was then designated 4800.  The R1 was then numbered 4899 and then #4999 in 1940.   It remained in service unit about 1960.

I am a bit surprised at the renumbering idea.  I get it that 4899 was the original number, but as was previously pointed out she never saw service with it.  I tend to think the number when the locomotive enters service is the benchmark, but hey what do I know?

George

Here's what she looked like last year.

 

I believe those who believing in wasting money on repowering a GG1 deserve a special place in the directory of mental disorders. There are a million worthwhile restoration projects of more value. The  GG1's remaining are only rusting shells in addition to having developed fatigue cracks in the frames.  I viewed one in the shop before they were taken out of service. The shop crew showed me fatigue cracks developing in componants besides the frames. They were completely worn out. I know a retired engineer who couldn't stand them from the standpoint of crew comfort. Then there is the transformer issue: What part of they have no transformers has to be repeated every other day? I fail to see any value in or the possibility of ever restoring one to operational use.

G3750 posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

"Old Rivets" is a rail fan generated term.  To be technical, the plan is restore the 4800 back to it's original number of 4899.  It was designated a National Mechanical Historic Landmark by the ASME as 4800.

As many will recall, the lone PRR R (a 4-8-4 rigid frame electric) numbered 4800 was built in Altoona in1934 as the PRR was sure that their home design would best the Baldwin design based on the New Haven EP3.  When testing at Claymont was complete, the GG1 proved to be the superior design and it was then designated 4800.  The R1 was then numbered 4899 and then #4999 in 1940.   It remained in service unit about 1960.

I am a bit surprised at the renumbering idea.  I get it that 4899 was the original number, but as was previously pointed out she never saw service with it.  I tend to think the number when the locomotive enters service is the benchmark, but hey what do I know?

George

To be true to it's as-built appearance 4899 makes complete sense. That's how the PRR designated it and it's how Baldwin delivered it. 

Regardless it wore the same paint scheme with 4899 and 4800 until the restyling in 1935.  Details matter and having the number board mounted on top of the nose on each end, the tear drop markers, and the open frame pre-war steam style pilot are signature details that make the original version unique and valuable as a historical item to contrast with its sister 4935.  Truly the alpha and omega of GG1 history.  With 4859 in Harrisburg, the state of PA has all three major as-built variations on the GG1 as 4859 has a slab pilot in lieu of the drop coupler pilot of 4935.  How it got that pilot is anyone's guess as 4857 was the highest numbered GG1 originally built with the slab pilot.

I can't wait to see both of the Strasburg G's nose to nose someday fully cosmetically restored in a climate controlled environment where they could effectively last forever with care.

Tommy posted:

I believe those who believing in wasting money on repowering a GG1 deserve a special place in the directory of mental disorders. There are a million worthwhile restoration projects of more value. The  GG1's remaining are only rusting shells in addition to having developed fatigue cracks in the frames.  I viewed one in the shop before they were taken out of service. The shop crew showed me fatigue cracks developing in componants besides the frames. They were completely worn out. I know a retired engineer who couldn't stand them from the standpoint of crew comfort. Then there is the transformer issue: What part of they have no transformers has to be repeated every other day? I fail to see any value in or the possibility of ever restoring one to operational use.

While I agree with you about the realistic possibility of a GG1 ever running again, never is strong term.  If there is a group trying to build a T1 from scratch, which is of questionable engineering to start someone with enough money can make anything run again.  Some GG1s are preserved better than others.  UP's heritage E9s are GP38-s in reality.  No one seems to have an issue with that.  The "stuffed shell" approach is certainly not preservation in my opinion, but not impossible from an engineering perspective.

The more substantial challenge in my opinion is getting time on the busy Keystone Corridor or the NEC to ever run one.  That is likely a non-starter with the Amtrak or any subsequent organization owning those tracks.

I agree though, they were completely worn out.  42 years on average of continuous high speed service will do that to anyone.

Well Tommy, what folks care to spend their money on is their business. The GGI was the leading high-speed locomotive for some 42 years. Although I'm way out on the west coast, they always looked sleek to me at the head of a string of varnish. It will likely cost as much, or more, than the usual steam engine restoration, but I'm willing to bet there is a way to put modern electrics in one and power it up. Although it won't be an authentic GGI, it will still be using electric motors to power the wheels, so it won't be that far removed from an authentic one. There's a lot of folks out there who would love to see one run, just as there are those of us who can't wait to see an Alco PA run again too.

RRDOC posted:

This weekend would be a good time to visit the RR Museum of PA.  They are having their annual Model Railroading Days. In addition to seeing PRR GG1s 4800 and 4935, you can visit with modular groups that are running trains inside surrounded by the 12" to the foot prototypes.  Our Stillmeadow Crossing O Gauge group will be participating again this year.

Bob Glorioso

We'll need pictures Bob!